wirehairman Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 This is wrong on so many levels - the main reason the Lakers are favored to come out of the West is the fact that they have Kobe, the best player in the NBA - period. I'll tell you what, TBimm, I'll give you Luke Walton and Sash Vujacic, and you give me David West and Peja Stojacavic. You think the Hornets would be in contention then? No, the Hornets would not be as strong with Walton and Vujacic. However, if you switched Gasol and Odom for West and Stojacavic, the Hornets would be a stronger team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 This is wrong on so many levels - the main reason the Lakers are favored to come out of the West is the fact that they have Kobe, the best player in the NBA - period. I'll tell you what, TBimm, I'll give you Luke Walton and Sash Vujacic, and you give me David West and Peja Stojacavic. You think the Hornets would be in contention then? how is this relevant? you are comparing the Hornets All Star starting PF and former All Start SG with the Lakers bench guys - The Hornets are looking tough, but the Lakers have the better players and the deepest rotation in the league- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 This is wrong on so many levels - the main reason the Lakers are favored to come out of the West is the fact that they have Kobe, the best player in the NBA - period. I'll tell you what, TBimm, I'll give you Luke Walton and Sash Vujacic, and you give me David West and Peja Stojacavic. You think the Hornets would be in contention then? Already said for me but yeah give me Gasol and Odom and you have a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Kobe deserved it this year, but he's still a major league a-hole off the court. He was very polite to my wife when they were riding in an elevator together. She actually said (and I think I previously shared this story) she felt bad for him as he was coming from taking his kid to the doctor and when they got off the elevator one of the employees (a late teen/early twenties girl) that was working in the pharmacy had her camera phone out and was taking pics and followed him out to his car sticking the camera phone in his face the whole way. Now, that's not to say that he isn's arrogant or an ahole, and it may just be that my wife was respectful of his space, etc. that he appreciated and was polite for, but based on her personal experience, he's at least partially a good guy in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 No, the Hornets would not be as strong with Walton and Vujacic. However, if you switched Gasol and Odom for West and Stojacavic, the Hornets would be a stronger team. Even if Gasol only played 25 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirehairman Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Even if Gasol only played 25 games? Even if . . . I also think that David West and Tyson Chandler would be 1/2 the players they are right now playing beside Kobe instead of CP3. The kid is like Nash in his selflessness and ability to elevate his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 The MVP doesn't necessarily mean the guy who improves his teammates the most. It's for the most important player on the team. Kobe is the league's best scorer and perimeter defender, even with a torn tendon in his shooting hand. You take away Kobe and the Lakers don't even sniff the playoffs. You take away Paul and they still have a better shot than the Lakers would without Kobe. A team doesn't blow out the defending champs in back to back games without a lot of young talent. I'm seeing all these CP3 fans take a sh!t on the rest of the team just to help make their point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Already said for me but yeah give me Gasol and Odom and you have a deal. Gasol played 25 games this year, Odom 77. Walton and Radmonovic started 72 games between them. So, I'll give you Odom/Walton/Radmonovic and you give me West and Peja. Or, lets swap Kobe for Paul straight up. The Hornets likely win 65-70 games that way and are runaway favorites to win the title,while the Lakers in that scenario would be in the middle of the pack with the rest of the West. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Or, lets swap Kobe for Paul straight up. The Hornets likely win 65-70 games that way and are runaway favorites to win the title,while the Lakers in that scenario would be in the middle of the pack with the rest of the West. Maybe. This is where your argument goes horribly wrong! Please tell me you haven't started smoking crack. With Kobe, West would not be needed nor have a roll on the Hornets. Peja Would be wandering around behind the 3 point line waiting for a chance to touch the ball. Maybe Kobe could gain the same court awareness with Chandler but I wouldn't bank on it. The fact is that if you swap em, both teams would get worse! The teams are built around these 2 guys. CP makes the players around him better. Kobe needs players around him to make his team better. Remember that Jordan scored at will for many seasons before his teams were championship material and Kobe has the most important piece to that puzzle outside of MJ himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Gasol played 25 games this year, Odom 77. Walton and Radmonovic started 72 games between them. So, I'll give you Odom/Walton/Radmonovic and you give me West and Peja. Or, lets swap Kobe for Paul straight up. The Hornets likely win 65-70 games that way and are runaway favorites to win the title,while the Lakers in that scenario would be in the middle of the pack with the rest of the West. Maybe. Have to add this as well. Don't think that the 25 games Gasol played didn't play a hugh roll in Kobe getting the nod. Without those 25 games the Lakers likely finish 3rd or 4th in the west and we aren't even having this discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooner Nation Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Bottom line, Kobe won the MVP because he was the best player, on the Wests best team. Last yr Dirk wasnt the best player in the league, but he was the best player on the leagues best regular season team. IMO Lebron is the real MVP. if CP3 and Kobe were both removed from their team, both of these teams could be competitive. Pargo could be a servicable starting PG, and get this team a #8 seed in the West at worst with West, Peja and Chandler. And the Lakers with Odom, Gasol and lakers bench players could still get in the playoffs. You take Lebron off the Cavs, and they are the Miami Heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 This is where your argument goes horribly wrong! Please tell me you haven't started smoking crack. With Kobe, West would not be needed nor have a roll on the Hornets. Peja Would be wandering around behind the 3 point line waiting for a chance to touch the ball. Maybe Kobe could gain the same court awareness with Chandler but I wouldn't bank on it. The fact is that if you swap em, both teams would get worse! The teams are built around these 2 guys. CP makes the players around him better. Kobe needs players around him to make his team better. Remember that Jordan scored at will for many seasons before his teams were championship material and Kobe has the most important piece to that puzzle outside of MJ himself! As Brad said above, what we've seen in this thread is a bunch of NOH fans dumping on the rest of the team to build Paul up. Peja was an effective scorer in this league long before CP3 got drafted. I wasn't aware that David West was playing 2G for New Orleans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 As Brad said above, what we've seen in this thread is a bunch of NOH fans dumping on the rest of the team to build Paul up. Peja was an effective scorer in this league long before CP3 got drafted. I wasn't aware that David West was playing 2G for New Orleans. We love our team but also understand our players strengths and weaknesses. You avoided the points I made that you can't argue so I guess we will agree to disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 We love our team but also understand our players strengths and weaknesses. You avoided the points I made that you can't argue so I guess we will agree to disagree! True in the fact that we're just due to disagree on this one - but I did address what you said about West and Peja. Its not like Paul has turned Peja from a scrub into an allstar. He's performed in this league for several years. West plays PF, Kobe plays 2G, yet you are saying that if Kobe were on the Hornets, West would just immediately start riding pine? Come on, you can't really believe this TBimm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 True in the fact that we're just due to disagree on this one - but I did address what you said about West and Peja. Its not like Paul has turned Peja from a scrub into an allstar. He's performed in this league for several years. West plays PF, Kobe plays 2G, yet you are saying that if Kobe were on the Hornets, West would just immediately start riding pine? Come on, you can't really believe this TBimm. I am fairly certain that the 2 teams will be able to settle this for us in a week or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooner Nation Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I am fairly certain that the 2 teams will be able to settle this for us in a week or so. THis may be very premature. NO has only held home court thus far. I wouldnt expect them to fold like Dallas did. And no offense, but it wouldnt surprise me a bit if NO isnt Golden State next yr. This team is playing way above its head right now, and Paul is the flavor of the month, like Baron Davis was last yr. The similarities of these 2 teams are scary close. NO is a jump shooting team, that has been hitting shots at an unbelievable clip, that cant continue. Im not saying NO wont make the playoffs next yr like Golden State, but if they slipped to the #7 or 8 seed it wouldnt surprise me a bit. Enjoy this run like golden State fans did last yr, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. LA is playing at a level above every team right now, and I dont see them losing to anyone but possibly Boston, and they are not a lock to get to the Finals. LA is about to go on a 3 or 4 yr run and they dont even have Bynum right now. Hell they may win it all without him this yr. And next yr, with a training camp with Gasol, and a healthy Bynum, the league better watch out. BTW, I hate LA. But the only team I see dethoning them in the near future is Portland, and they have some work to do to get that young roster to the Lakers level. But they will have the pieces next yr, they just need some seasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 This is wrong on so many levels - the main reason the Lakers are favored to come out of the West is the fact that they have Kobe, the best player in the NBA - period. I'll tell you what, TBimm, I'll give you Luke Walton and Sash Vujacic, and you give me David West and Peja Stojacavic. You think the Hornets would be in contention then? This makes no sense? If that was true that the Lakers are favored to come out of the West because they have Kobe then why have they been so mediocre during the last 4 years? Two reasons ,,,,, Supporting cast and Kobe has finally put the team ahead of himself. And your other point is equally weak. Two starters for two guys coming off the bench? How about I give you Tyson Chandler and you give me Paul Gasol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 BTW, I hate LA. But the only team I see dethoning them in the near future is Portland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooner Nation Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Obviously not this yr, but I see LA going on a serious run in the West as the #1 seed for years to come, until Portland finally catches them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 paul is an awesome player who had a great year, no doubt. but kobe is hands down the most feared player in the league and it isn't even close. I hate to say it because I really kind of despise the guy (rapist), but it is true. not only is he the best pure scorer in the league, with the most complete inside-outside game, he is also one of the 4 or 5 best defenders, and he is pure money in the clutch. so, best player in the league, on the west's top seed. really kind of a no-brainer call for MVP this year in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 paul is an awesome player who had a great year, no doubt. but kobe is hands down the most feared player in the league and it isn't even close. I hate to say it because I really kind of despise the guy (rapist), but it is true. not only is he the best pure scorer in the league, with the most complete inside-outside game, he is also one of the 4 or 5 best defenders, and he is pure money in the clutch. so, best player in the league, on the west's top seed. really kind of a no-brainer call for MVP this year in my book. Hard to argue with any of this, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Obviously not this yr, but I see LA going on a serious run in the West as the #1 seed for years to come, until Portland finally catches them. I agree with this. Portland is going to be tough. Young team with Roy leading the way and a great head coach in Nate McMillen. If Oden comes back healthy this is THE team of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Should have been his third MVP award after he carried two godawful teams into the playoffs singlehandedly the last two seasons before this one. Frankly, this season was his least impressive of the last 3. The emergence of Bynum and the robbery of Memphis for Gasol made this year's supporting cast very good. Kobe Agree... this year's MVP award is more of a life time achievement award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) THis may be very premature. NO has only held home court thus far. I wouldnt expect them to fold like Dallas did. And no offense, but it wouldnt surprise me a bit if NO isnt Golden State next yr. This team is playing way above its head right now, and Paul is the flavor of the month, like Baron Davis was last yr. The similarities of these 2 teams are scary close. NO is a jump shooting team, that has been hitting shots at an unbelievable clip, that cant continue. Im not saying NO wont make the playoffs next yr like Golden State, but if they slipped to the #7 or 8 seed it wouldnt surprise me a bit. Enjoy this run like golden State fans did last yr, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. LA is playing at a level above every team right now, and I dont see them losing to anyone but possibly Boston, and they are not a lock to get to the Finals. LA is about to go on a 3 or 4 yr run and they dont even have Bynum right now. Hell they may win it all without him this yr. And next yr, with a training camp with Gasol, and a healthy Bynum, the league better watch out. BTW, I hate LA. But the only team I see dethoning them in the near future is Portland, and they have some work to do to get that young roster to the Lakers level. But they will have the pieces next yr, they just need some seasoning. cmon Private, you cannot be serious with this........comparing NO to GS is an absolute joke. This team has an outstanding young nucleus, an absolute game changer at PG, and West/Chandler provide an excellent frontcourt - this comparison is ludicrous, and could not be more wrong. 7 or 8 seed??? you are watching them surpass SA, and Phx and Dallas are both slipping- this team is tough Chit, throw in solid vets like Peja, MoPete and Bonzi, a nice bench combo G in Pargo, and a young Julian Wright- this team is gonna be a serious contender for the next 4-5 years. Portland?? they are 2-3 years away from being a legit contender- will take them a while to learn how to win Edited May 8, 2008 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooner Nation Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 cmon Private, you cannot be serious with this........comparing NO to GS is an absolute joke. This team has an outstanding young nucleus, an absolute game changer at PG, and West/Chandler provide an excellent frontcourt - this comparison is ludicrous, and could not be more wrong. 7 or 8 seed??? you are watching them surpass SA, and Phx and Dallas are both slipping- this team is tough Chit, throw in solid vets like Peja, MoPete and Bonzi, a nice bench combo G in Pargo, and a young Julian Wright- this team is gonna be a serious contender for the next 4-5 years. Portland?? they are 2-3 years away from being a legit contender- will take them a while to learn how to win Didnt you say the same chit last yr about GS, when I said their 1st round win was a fluke. We can revisit this post next yr. Sorry, but I dont think West is as good as he is playing now, definately playing out of his mind right now. Chandilier is a weak 5, and Peja is a pinky nail break away from missing the season next yr. I agree Paul is a stud, but so is Baron, and Davis couldnt do it all himself out west this yr. Sleep on Portland in the future, figures you will be last to see the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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