untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 :snap: :snap: :snap: Youre train of thought is straying... Stay with us here... I've offered my opinion and my underlying reasoning for that opinion. Is there more you require? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Didn't David slay Goliath? Wasn't David a Christian? Didn't the Bible ask Abraham to take the life of his own son? Seems to me like the whole eye for an eye concept started in the Bible. Please tell us you're just having s little fun with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 unta - I wanna role play for a moment... God forbid, say something like this happened to you. Lets say some dude killed your wife and kids, and decapitated them, cut off their limbs, and then did the same to your dog. Lets also assume that you just walked in on this guy after all this took place. What is your next course of action assuming the man that did it just sits there and looks at you, and does not attack you. Do you: A. Beat the man to death knowing he just murdered your family? B. Look at him and not do anything? C. Call the police and wait for them to arrive to take him away into the sunset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I forgive you. thank you, I'll sleep better knowing a guy who feels the criminally lunatic should be kept alive on my dime. I'd rather he be slaughtered on my dime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 unta - I wanna role play for a moment... God forbid, say something like this happened to you. Lets say some dude killed your wife and kids, and decapitated them, cut off their limbs, and then did the same to your dog. Lets also assume that you just walked in on this guy after all this took place. What is your next course of action assuming the man that did it just sits there and looks at you, and does not attack you. Do you: A. Beat the man to death knowing he just murdered your family? B. Look at him and not do anything? C. Call the police and wait for them to arrive to take him away into the sunset? Do you really believe that couching it in personal terms will change his convictions? Either it is right or wrong ... the persons involved are irrelevant except that it introduces an emotional element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 unta - I wanna role play for a moment... God forbid, say something like this happened to you. Lets say some dude killed your wife and kids, and decapitated them, cut off their limbs, and then did the same to your dog. Lets also assume that you just walked in on this guy after all this took place. What is your next course of action assuming the man that did it just sits there and looks at you, and does not attack you. Do you: A. Beat the man to death knowing he just murdered your family? B. Look at him and not do anything? C. Call the police and wait for them to arrive to take him away into the sunset? You are asking what a man would do if he walked in and found his family and God forbid, my dog, butchered. I have no idea how I'd react but there's a good chance, given my three choices, the answer would likely be A. However, how one reacts when immediately overwhelmed by horror is likely different than how one reacts once the horror, for lack of better words, has passed. And I don't really feel that once I killed the murderer, I'm going to feel any better. My family and my dog are still butchered and dead. And the one responsible is no longer feeling suffering in any capacity that I can measure. I think the feelings associated with the death penalty are more complex, at least they are for me. Your scenario does not change my opinion, but you didn't really think it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Do you really believe that couching it in personal terms will change his convictions? Either it is right or wrong ... the persons involved are irrelevant except that it introduces an emotional element. I :heart: Blitz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missoula Griz Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 He confessed. He was covered in blood. Yeah, run the tests, but cmon, he did it. I just read John Grisham's 'The innocent man'. True story about a guy who confessed through intimidation and spent years on death row until they had the ability to test DNA. I know its a reach, but it was on my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Do you really believe that couching it in personal terms will change his convictions? Either it is right or wrong ... the persons involved are irrelevant except that it introduces an emotional element. No I didnt. Im not trying to change his mind at all. Im just trying to understand how one can say the penalty of death is not justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 You are asking what a man would do if he walked in and found his family and God forbid, my dog, butchered. I have no idea how I'd react but there's a good chance, given my three choices, the answer would likely be A. However, how one reacts when immediately overwhelmed by horror is likely different than how one reacts once the horror, for lack of better words, has passed. And I don't really feel that once I killed the murderer, I'm going to feel any better. My family and my dog are still butchered and dead. And the one responsible is no longer feeling suffering in any capacity that I can measure. I think the feelings associated with the death penalty are more complex, at least they are for me. Your scenario does not change my opinion, but you didn't really think it would. So youre agreeing with torturing someone, but not killing them? I know you used the word "suffer", but lets be real... Suffer in this context is equal to torture, or damn near it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 untateve would argue that executing inmates in a more timely and cost effective manner will also cause more mistakes to be made in applying the death penalty, thereby killing more innocent people. Oh well. Sh-it happens. And ya - I mean that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 So youre agreeing with torturing someone, but not killing them? I know you used the word "suffer", but lets be real... Suffer in this context is equal to torture, or damn near it. You seek to twist my words. I do not equate incarceration in prison for life with torture, apparently you do. I disagree with your characterization of my words. I do, however, believe that life time incarceration is a worse than the the death penalty, only because of my experiences in the Florida State Prison system. You also state that you do not understand how I can be against the death penalty--I thought I could not be any more clear. If killing is wrong, killing is wrong. Let me ask this--if you find out that your son is bullying other children and beating them up, are you going to teach him that this is wrong by spanking him? I would not. I also don't think that we as a society teach that killing is wrong by executing criminals. I have other reasons against the death penalty. Az wrote very eloquently about this recently. Generally, there is too much room for human error and innocent people will be put to death. (I debated whether to use the word "eloquently" but it really captured my opinion) These are three of my reasons against the death penalty. I don't know that I can state my opinions any simpler than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I am not a proponent of the death penalty for any crime. And yet, if someone did this to my family, I'm guessing that I wouldn't rest until I had extinguished his life. I'm a walking contradiction... except that I'm sitting down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Oh well. Sh-it happens. And ya - I mean that. So you are against murder, but you are not against the rare execution of an innocent individual. Or maybe you believe that some innocent people must die in order to insure that the guilty die as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Didn't David slay Goliath? Wasn't David a Christian? umm, david was a jew, smart guy. there was no such thing as a christian when david was around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I am not a proponent of the death penalty for any crime. And yet, if someone did this to my family, I'm guessing that I wouldn't rest until I had extinguished his life. I'm a walking contradiction... except that I'm sitting down. I feel the same way. I'm for the death penalty but I'm against capital punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 jesus, I didn't even post in this thread until a couple minutes ago and still I can't keep untatave from latching on and swinging from ny nutsack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 You seek to twist my words. I do not equate incarceration in prison for life with torture, apparently you do. I disagree with your characterization of my words. I do, however, believe that life time incarceration is a worse than the the death penalty, only because of my experiences in the Florida State Prison system. You also state that you do not understand how I can be against the death penalty--I thought I could not be any more clear. If killing is wrong, killing is wrong. Let me ask this--if you find out that your son is bullying other children and beating them up, are you going to teach him that this is wrong by spanking him? I would not. I also don't think that we as a society teach that killing is wrong by executing criminals. I have other reasons against the death penalty. Az wrote very eloquently about this recently. Generally, there is too much room for human error and innocent people will be put to death. (I debated whether to use the word "eloquently" but it really captured my opinion) These are three of my reasons against the death penalty. I don't know that I can state my opinions any simpler than that. I do NOT seek to twist your words. Your words are yours, mine are mine. Killing is NOT wrong if necessary, plain and simple. Killing happens in all aspects of life. If it is something that must be done, then it must be done. Someone takes the life of an innocent person as in this story, then yes, killing must be done. I know you see otherwise, and that is fine. I disagree with you, and again, that is fine. You keep repeating the whole innocent factor. I do agree that if there is any shadow of a doubt, then no, death is not justifiable. But in this case, and many like it, someone has confessed. Evidence points to him. There is no doubts he is the killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 umm, david was a jew, smart guy. there was no such thing as a christian when david was around. I thought Jews were monsters (like those portrayed in Borat). You mean that wasnt a real movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 jesus, I didn't even post in this thread until a couple minutes ago and still I can't keep untatave from latching on and swinging from ny nutsack. It hurts me when you take the Lord's name in vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Was the dog a pit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 It hurts me when you take the Lord's name in vein. Especially when His name isnt capitalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Was the dog a pit? The suspect better hope so. Then he could argue that the dog killed them (and then itself) and he just found them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 The bible bashers that support the death penalty almost always describe themselves as Christians and yet invariably quote from the Old Testament to support their argument. And yet none of them can effectively counter-argue "Thou Shalt Not Kill", supposedly a simple four word directive from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I do agree that if there is any shadow of a doubt, then no, death is not justifiable. and there's the rub. can you point me to the jurisdiction where "beyond any shadow of a doubt" is the legal standard for conviction of a crime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.