Jimmy Neutron Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I've been reading historical political and economic books and essays lately - thought I'd post some Thoreau I found relevant today: We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which it may utter, or any heroism it may inspire. There will never be a really free and enlightened State, until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose, if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow-men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which also I have imagined, but not yet anywhere seen. - both from Civil DisobedienceI wonder how well the first applies to Obama for many people. I am saddened by the second in realizing how far our country has slipped from the days of Thoreau's own anguish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Civil Disobedience was great. Walden was the intellectual, metaphorical equivalent of humping plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Civil Disobedience was great. Walden was the intellectual, metaphorical equivalent of humping plywood. Admit it - you don't like the fair tax because you don't want to get a real job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I've been reading historical political and economic books and essays lately - thought I'd post some Thoreau I found relevant today: - both from Civil Disobedience I wonder how well the first applies to Obama for many people. I am saddened by the second in realizing how far our country has slipped from the days of Thoreau's own anguish. Most people aren't going to understand either of those - that's the sad part of it Jimmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Most people aren't going to understand either of those - that's the sad part of it Jimmy. Hopefully that's not the case - just wanted to encourage a little discourse beyond the latest superhero movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Walden was the intellectual, metaphorical equivalent of humping plywood. I only made it halfway through - dunno about Thoreau's other stuff, but in Walden he comes across as quite impressed with his own fortitude. Oh, and he also comes across a pedantic windbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I only made it halfway through - dunno about Thoreau's other stuff, but in Walden he comes across as quite impressed with his own fortitude. Oh, and he also comes across a pedantic windbag. Finishing that book took steely resolve. I respected his little social experiment; I even enjoyed observing the minimalist approach he took. But pedantic windbag pretty much sums up his writing style in that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I've been reading historical political and economic books and essays lately - thought I'd post some Thoreau I found relevant today: - both from Civil Disobedience I wonder how well the first applies to Obama for many people. I am saddened by the second in realizing how far our country has slipped from the days of Thoreau's own anguish. You just like the guy because he did a little jail time for refusing to pay what he thought were unjust taxes. (Never mind the fact that he only made it 24 hours in jail before he Aunt bailed him out and paid the taxes for him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 You just like the guy because he did a little jail time for refusing to pay what he thought were unjust taxes. (Never mind the fact that he only made it 24 hours in jail before he Aunt bailed him out and paid the taxes for him). So, he is at about the same level of fierce, principled independence as Perch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) So, he is at about the same level of fierce, principled independence as Perch? Thoreau's parents actually owned a pencil factory, at which he worked. Except when he clocked out to go live for free on Ralph Waldo Emerson's land to write Walden. The guy wouldn't even spring for the cost of his own diploma from Harvard, because he thought the school should have to pay for that expense. He was basically an "anarchist" that could afford to be one because someone else was picking up his tabs. That's not to say his views on government, nature, and taxes were wrong: I actually agree with many of his views. But its always easier to maintain fiercely righteous principles when your well connected, Harvard educated, and your friends and family own the factory you work at/land you live on. Edited July 18, 2008 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 You just like the guy because he did a little jail time for refusing to pay what he thought were unjust taxes. (Never mind the fact that he only made it 24 hours in jail before he Aunt bailed him out and paid the taxes for him). I like the guy because he was able to differentiate between the law and morals. He also wrote that lawyers know no truth other than consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I thought the title of this thread was a Monty Python skit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I like the guy because he was able to differentiate between the law and morals. He also wrote that lawyers know no truth other than consistency. Hey now. As a lawyer I know lots of truths. And if you're willing to pay my billable rate I'm willing to advance which ever one you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Didn't this dude just win the Homerun Derby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Didn't this dude just win the Homerun Derby? And got the winning run in the ASG. Amazing he had time to write a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billay Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I have a BOTH team named after a Thoreau quote: Any man, more right than his neighbors, constitutes a majority of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which it may utter, or any heroism it may inspire. -Thoreau Eloquence: The art of orally persuading fools that white is the color that it appears to be. It includes the gift of making any color appear white. -Ambrose Bierce or Jesse Jackson on Barack Obama? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I can't believe how disrespectful you guys are being toward Thoreau. He was a great American writer. I thought Henry Fonda did a great job playing him in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I can't believe how disrespectful you guys are being toward Thoreau. He was a great American writer. I thought Henry Fonda did a great job playing him in the movie. I almost did this joke at the beginning, but thought it too esoteric and that no one would get it. Well played CD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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