keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 They had one year where they were "pretty damn good", in 2005. Otherwise they have been middle of the roadish since 2001, and completely terrible in 2007 and 2008. After a quick look at the standings Since 2001, the Bronco's conference finish in points allowed (16 teams) 2001: 12th 2002: 8th 2003: 6th 2004: 7th 2005: T-2nd 2006: 7th 2007: 14th 2008: 16th Not impressive. um you do realize that Bates took over in 2007 which makes those numbers look MUCH worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Chase Coffman knows how to catch a football. shhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 um you do realize that Bates took over in 2007 which makes those numbers look MUCH worse I do, but when Bates took over has nothing to do with my point overall, which is that Denver has not survived over the last 8+ years on strong defense. I understand it got worse when he showed up. That D still only had one year of being "good", and the rest of the time it was flat out mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I do, but when Bates took over has nothing to do with my point overall, which is that Denver has not survived over the last 8+ years on strong defense. I understand it got worse when he showed up. That D still only had one year of being "good", and the rest of the time it was flat out mediocre. just curious....can you supply where they ranked in the NFL instead of just in their conf? I mean those 7ths and 8ths could theoretically also be their NFL rank which would then be a far cry from mediocre, just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 just curious....can you supply where they ranked in the NFL instead of just in their conf? I mean those 7ths and 8ths could theoretically also be their NFL rank which would then be a far cry from mediocre, just sayin' You are welcome to look it up. I didn't bother to look. Are you trying to make a point that the Denver D has been good long term? If you think so...then of course you are welcome to refute my simplistic assessment. Try to bear in mind that what a team does in it's conference is far and away a better reflection of how they stack up to their competition, considering that teams play the majority of their schedule in conference. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 just curious....can you supply where they ranked in the NFL instead of just in their conf? I mean those 7ths and 8ths could theoretically also be their NFL rank which would then be a far cry from mediocre, just sayin' actually i went and did the leg work: NFL rank in Points Allowed: 01: 21 Mediocre to Bad 02: 15 Mediocre 03: 9 GOOD 04: 9 GOOD 05: 3 GOOD 06: 8 GOOD 07: 28 BAD 08: 30 BAD so PRIOR to Jim Bates there had FOUR consecutive years where their D was a TOP TEN NFL D...and the two years prior to that run one was mediocre with the other being mediocre/bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) You are welcome to look it up. I didn't bother to look. Are you trying to make a point that the Denver D has been good long term? If you think so...then of course you are welcome to refute my simplistic assessment. Try to bear in mind that what a team does in it's conference is far and away a better reflection of how they stack up to their competition, considering that teams play the majority of their schedule in conference. Just sayin' well with that thinking then you should have just broken it down to DIVISION since they play 6 of their games in their division...the point is that you were trying to say that the Donkeys have been mediocre at best on D since 2001....and you thru out some rankings that backed up your statement...except you massaged them to fit your argument by only including a conf breakdown....when teams are looked at as being good or bad etc...how often do you hear the arguments in support or against based on CONF play? Edited April 28, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 well with that thinking then you should have just broken it down to DIVISION since they play HALF their schedule in their division...the point is that you were trying to say that the Donkeys have been mediocre at best on D since 2001....and you thru out some rankings that backed up your statement...except you massaged them to fit your argument by only including a conf breakdown....when teams are looked at as being good or bad etc...how often do you hear the arguments in support or against based on CONF play? Those were the numbers I looked at. IMO they are much more relevant than looking at the whole league. Teams play 6 div, 6 in conf out of div, and 4 out of conf. Seemed to be the logical way to look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think you are all forgetting that Harvin will be in Chilly's Kick offense!!!! ROY baby ROY!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Those were the numbers I looked at. IMO they are much more relevant than looking at the whole league. Teams play 6 div, 6 in conf out of div, and 4 out of conf. Seemed to be the logical way to look at it. ok then I am just curious...if a team happened to be #1 in D points allowed or heck even in points scored on Offense but ranked 17th in the ENTIRE NFL would you consider them a GOOD O or D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 ok then I am just curious...if a team happened to be #1 in D points allowed or heck even in points scored on Offense but ranked 17th in the ENTIRE NFL would you consider them a GOOD O or D I don't follow your question. Are you asking me if a team was the top point scoring team in their conference, if I would consider them a good offensive team? Yes, I would. I would consider that if the whole conference scored fewer points than the entire other conference, that probably the defense in that same conference was just that much better. Beyond that, I don't think I am going to chase random hypotheticals. You are trying to make an argument of extreme cases. Typically it's not worth getting into that IMO. Methodology for any conclusion can be nitpicked, and so you are welcome to have a nitpick with mine. You seem to have your opinion. Mine is that Denver has not made a living as a feared defensive team, and was no better than adequate and as bad as terrible for the majority of the seasons in this decade. They have mainly succeeded as an offensive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I do, but when Bates took over has nothing to do with my point overall, which is that Denver has not survived over the last 8+ years on strong defense. they were alright the year the ended the patriots' playoff run by holding tom brady et al to 13 points seriously, they were 3rd in the league in points allowed that year (2005), and they had some pretty solid defensive years on either side of that season as well. it hasn't been ALL garbage on defense the last 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 they were alright the year the ended the patriots' playoff run by holding tom brady et al to 13 points seriously, they were 3rd in the league in points allowed that year (2005), and they had some pretty solid defensive years on either side of that season as well. it hasn't been ALL garbage on defense the last 10 years. Right. That's the season I was referring to in which they would have been classified as "good" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I think Coyer's now with TEN and they love him? He is with the Colts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I think you are all forgetting that Harvin will be in Chilly's Kick offense!!!! ROY baby ROY!!!!! So then where do you rank the rookies? I stay away from Gator WR's and Florida State DE's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 So then where do you rank the rookies? I stay away from Gator WR's and Florida State DE's. Wasn't being serious about Harvin thus the I have them Wells (as I think AZ will continue to do what worked well for them in the playoffs and that was run the ball) Brown (perfect spot for him at Indy) Moreno (Denver RB but should be in good spot to be the feature back) Crabtree (SF want to throw to take pressure off of Gore) Maclin (Philly/Mcnabb can get him the ball) Sanchez (the new Broadway Joe, can he handle the pressure?) Harvin (can Chilly figure out a way to use him? May be an explosive returner but with Peterson/Taylor/Berrian/Shancoe needing the ball and either T-Jax and Sage at QB will he get touches? Chilly was predictable before with Peterson in the backfield) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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