Are the Packers Finished?

[bushwacked]

Thread of the year.

[Mr Hammock]

Favre pushed himself out the door when he decided he was bigger than the team. You're arguing a lost cause. Let's discuss this at the end of the season instead of Week friggin' 2, for God's sakes. The Pack is 1-1. Regardless of whether you believe they "got lucky" in game one is irreleavent. A win is a win and it doesn't have to be pretty. A truly terrible team WOULD have lost against Chicago last week.

 

Let's use reality here. I know it has to be tough for a Packer fan to do that and I get that. Like I said I feel really bad for every Packer fan and the position they are in. It must really hurt.

 

Now the reality is that Favre didn't draft Rodgers. The Packers did and it was a slap in the face to Favre. I think Favre handled himself as well as anyone in his position could have. Imagine if you were him.

 

Cutler gift wrapped that game for them. If Cutler would have played like he did today against the Steelers, the Packers would be 0-2. Good thing for the Packers they caught the Bears in week 1, before they started to gel.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Mr Hammock

[Deathpig]

Let's use reality here. I know it has to be tough for a Packer fan to do that and I get that. Like I said I feel really bad for every Packer fan and the position they are in. It must really hurt.

 

Now the reality is that Favre didn't draft Rodgers. The Packers did and it was a slap in the face to Favre. I think Favre handled himself as well as anyone in his position could have. Imagine if you were him.

 

Cutler gift wrapped that game for them. If Cutler would have played like he did today against the Steelers, the Packers would be 0-2. Good thing for the Packers they caught the Bears in week 1, before they started to gel.

 

Not being a Packer fan, I would imagine reality for them would be that they had a quarterback who for the 10 seasons since the team's last visit to the Super Bowl had gone 3-6 in postseason play with a 76 QB rating while holding the team hostage with 'will I retire or will I come back' shenanigans for 3 or 4 straight years (you know, mucking up things like draft/FA priorities and whatnot). I suppose his charismatic 'oh shucks golly-darn' face should ease the sting of yet another season killing interception and we shouldn't hold that against him.

 

Your brilliant argument that the team committed some sort of mortal sin against Favre because they drafted a backup QB/future starter that they had no intention of actually playing right away when Favre was 35 makes no sense. 2005 was right in the line of the Favre 'will I or won't I retire' nonsense, and the team needed to cover itself in case he did retire. The team made the right call here. How did Favre feel? He was 35 and was talking about retiring! What did he expect the team to do? Favre really showed the team they made the wrong call with his awesome 29 interception season.

 

As for the team 'spitting' on him, they paid him millions... wait, let me emphasize... MILLIONS of dollars to play for them. They put up with his narcissistic prima-donna BS for years. When he put off letting the team know if he would come back or not, they made the decision to move on without him. Favre could have avoided the whole mess by simply... you know... DECIDING TO STAY by the deadline the team set for him to make that decision. He knew the deadline and treated it like a joke (you know, just like he did with Minnesota this year). By that point, the Packers were done with his nonsense and had a QB ready to take over. Minnesota is desperate enough to put up with whatever he'll do because they're hoping he has some magical powers that will translate into a Super Bowl victory. They clearly haven't been paying attention for the last 10 years.

 

The Packers may have some problems, but it's not particularly clear that QB play is the biggest one.

2007 Favre -- 356/535 (66.5%), 4155 yds, 28td/15int, 7.8ypa, 95.7 qbr

2008 Rodgers -- 341/536 (63.6%), 4038 yds, 28td/13int, 7.5ypa, 93.8 qbr

 

Rodgers' first year as a starter he did as well as 'THE AMAZING GUNSLINGING FIRST BALLOT HOF SUPER BOWL WINNING 3 TIME MVP GREATEST PLAYER EVER' Favre. The statistical difference between the two is negligable. Additionally, you would expect that Rodgers will improve over the next few years as he gets more experience, while Favre will get worse as Father Time catches up to him. The Packers might have some decisions to regret, but to this point, QB isn't one of them.

[Randall]

Please drop all your Packer players before it's too late, especially Jennings and Rodgers

Edited September 21, 2009 by Randall

[BeeR]

Thas what I'm talkin bout -

 

Moss sucked too, I'm dropping him like a hot potater

[Mr Hammock]

Not being a Packer fan, I would imagine reality for them would be that they had a quarterback who for the 10 seasons since the team's last visit to the Super Bowl had gone 3-6 in postseason play with a 76 QB rating while holding the team hostage with 'will I retire or will I come back' shenanigans for 3 or 4 straight years (you know, mucking up things like draft/FA priorities and whatnot). I suppose his charismatic 'oh shucks golly-darn' face should ease the sting of yet another season killing interception and we shouldn't hold that against him.

 

How many teams wish they would have even gone to playoffs at all and played in 9 playoff games? How many playoff games have the Packers went to since Brett has been gone? How many will they see this year? Yeah they made a REAL smart move to push Favre out the door. But I am glad they got their draft straight. Puleez.

 

And Favre had not retired 3-4 times by 2005. Nice try, but I will get to that in a few.

 

Your brilliant argument that the team committed some sort of mortal sin against Favre because they drafted a backup QB/future starter that they had no intention of actually playing right away when Favre was 35 makes no sense. 2005 was right in the line of the Favre 'will I or won't I retire' nonsense, and the team needed to cover itself in case he did retire. The team made the right call here. How did Favre feel? He was 35 and was talking about retiring! What did he expect the team to do? Favre really showed the team they made the wrong call with his awesome 29 interception season.

 

They were drafting a quarterback to replace Favre on their terms. Would have anyone said anything if they had spent a third round pick or later on a QB? I don't think they would have. Just this year the Colts drafted Curtis Painter. But The Packers Just HAD to draft the second QB in the entire draft. What message would that send to you, if you were Favre?

 

As for the team 'spitting' on him, they paid him millions... wait, let me emphasize... MILLIONS of dollars to play for them. They put up with his narcissistic prima-donna BS for years. When he put off letting the team know if he would come back or not, they made the decision to move on without him. Favre could have avoided the whole mess by simply... you know... DECIDING TO STAY by the deadline the team set for him to make that decision. He knew the deadline and treated it like a joke (you know, just like he did with Minnesota this year). By that point, the Packers were done with his nonsense and had a QB ready to take over. Minnesota is desperate enough to put up with whatever he'll do because they're hoping he has some magical powers that will translate into a Super Bowl victory. They clearly haven't been paying attention for the last 10 years.

 

Yeah and Favre made the Packers millions... let me emphasize Hundreds of Millions of Dollars. The Packers drafted a QB in 2005 to replace Favre. Let me say that again so it's clearly understood -

 

The Packers drafted Rodgers in the first round (24th overall) in 2005.

 

Favre had not retired 4 times by 2005. If they would have had some patience then maybe, just maybe they could have worked out something with Favre. But what did they do? They drafted who some thought was the best QB in the draft, in 2005.

 

Favre was 35 years old when the 2005 season started. What are the Colts doing for Peyton at age 33? Peyton will be 34 years old when next season starts, but the owner Jim Irsay came out and publicly stated that he is going to sign Peyton to a new multiyear contract before this season is over. Why did Jim Irsay do that? Because Peyton Manning retiring a Colt is a lot more important to Irsay than taking a chance on a losing season. It's what fans want too. Tell me one Packer fan who wouldn't have wanted to see Favre retire as a Packer. Tell me any Packer fan who wouldn't have gladly went through a few six win seasons to see that happen. Favre has always been about the dramatics and him retiring a Packer would have been dramatic. Too bad the Packer fans missed out on that.

 

The Packers may have some problems, but it's not particularly clear that QB play is the biggest one.

2007 Favre -- 356/535 (66.5%), 4155 yds, 28td/15int, 7.8ypa, 95.7 qbr

2008 Rodgers -- 341/536 (63.6%), 4038 yds, 28td/13int, 7.5ypa, 93.8 qbr

 

The Packers have all kinds of problems and I am sure it starts with the players not trusting the organization. All of the players realize that this is a business for them, but why should they have any loyalty at all to a team that will kick a legendary QB like Favre to the curb?

 

You want to know the difference between Favre and Rodgers in 2007 and 2008? Favre won. How long has it been since the Packers could say they were a winner? Go back to the Favre days to see that. In fact just look at his last year when they were 13-3 and went to the NFC Championship Game.

 

Rodgers' first year as a starter he did as well as 'THE AMAZING GUNSLINGING FIRST BALLOT HOF SUPER BOWL WINNING 3 TIME MVP GREATEST PLAYER EVER' Favre. The statistical difference between the two is negligable. Additionally, you would expect that Rodgers will improve over the next few years as he gets more experience, while Favre will get worse as Father Time catches up to him. The Packers might have some decisions to regret, but to this point, QB isn't one of them.

 

I must have missed something but how many games did Rodgers win?

 

There is a HUGE difference between going 13-3 and making it to the NFC Championship Game over going 6-10.

 

The Packers SCREWED UP. The only people who don't think so are Packer Fans who are still in denial and other NFL fans who have hated Favre for years. You HATE Favre so you are trying to spin this as if I am his biggest fan. Well I am not and your trying to make things something different than they are won't work. Realize what the reality of this situation is and get over yourself already.

 

No Matter how it is sliced or diced, the Packers Fudged Up Big Time!

 

Favre has been winning every since he left Green Bay and the Packers have been LOSERS.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Mr Hammock

[drewjh]

How many teams wish they would have gone to playoffs at all and played in 9 playoff games? How many playoff games have the Packers went to since Brett has been gone? How many will they see this year? Yeah they made a REAL smart move to push Favre out the door. But I am glad they got their draft straight. Puleez.

 

 

 

They were drafting a quarterback to replace Favre on their terms. Would have anyone said anything if they had spent a third round pick or later on a QB? I don't think they would have. Just this year the Colts drafted Curtis Painter. But The Packers had to draft the second QB in the entire draft. What message would that send to you, if you were Favre? Favre has been winning every since he left Green Bay.

 

 

 

Yeah and Favre made the Packers millions... let me emphasize Hundreds of Millions of Dollars. The Packers drafted a QB in 2005 to replace Favre. Let me say that again so it's clearly understood - The Packers drafted Rodgers in the first round (24th overall) in 2005. Favre had not retired 4 times by 2005. If they would have had some patience then maybe, just maybe they could have worked out something with Favre. But what did they do? They drafted who some thought was the best QB in the draft, in 2005.

 

Favre was 35 years old when the 2005 season started. What are the Colts doing for Peyton at age 33? Peyton will be 34 years old when next season startes, but the owner Jim Irsay came out and publicly stated that he is going to sign Peyton to a new Multiyear contract before this season is over. Why did Jim Irsay do that? Because Peyton manning retiring a Colt is a lot more important to Irsay then taking a chance on a losing season. It's what fans want too. Tell me one Packer fan who wouldn't have wanted to see Favre retire as a Packer. Tell me any Packer fan who wouldn't have gladly went through a few six win seasons to see that happen. Favre has always been about the dramatics and him retiring a Packer would have been dramatic. Too bad the Packer fans missed out on that.

 

 

 

The Packers have all kinds of problems and I am sure it starts with the players not trusting the organization. All of the players realize that this is a business for them, but why should they have any loyalty at all to a team that will kick a legendary QB like Favre to the curb?

 

You want to know the difference between Favre and Rodgers in 2007 and 2008? Favre won. How long has it been since the Packers could say they were a winner? Go back to the Favre days to see that.

 

 

 

I must have missed something but how many games did Rodgers win?

 

There is a HUGE difference between going 13-3 and making it to the NFC Championship Game over going 6-10.

 

The Packers SCREWED UP. The only people who don't think so are Packer Fans who are still in denial and other NFL fans who have hated Favre for years. You HATE Favre so you are trying to spin this as if I am his biggest fan. Well I am not and your trying to make things something different than they are won't work. Realize what the reality of this situation is and get over yourself already.

 

No Matter how it is sliced or diced, the Packers Fudged Up Big Time!

 

The Packers moved on. I think you should too.

[gbpfan1231]

How many teams wish they would have even gone to playoffs at all and played in 9 playoff games? How many playoff games have the Packers went to since Brett has been gone? How many will they see this year? Yeah they made a REAL smart move to push Favre out the door. But I am glad they got their draft straight. Puleez.

 

And Favre had not retired 3-4 times by 2005. Nice try, but I will get to that in a few.

 

 

 

They were drafting a quarterback to replace Favre on their terms. Would have anyone said anything if they had spent a third round pick or later on a QB? I don't think they would have. Just this year the Colts drafted Curtis Painter. But The Packers had to draft the second QB in the entire draft. What message would that send to you, if you were Favre?

 

 

 

Yeah and Favre made the Packers millions... let me emphasize Hundreds of Millions of Dollars. The Packers drafted a QB in 2005 to replace Favre. Let me say that again so it's clearly understood -

 

The Packers drafted Rodgers in the first round (24th overall) in 2005.

 

Favre had not retired 4 times by 2005. If they would have had some patience then maybe, just maybe they could have worked out something with Favre. But what did they do? They drafted who some thought was the best QB in the draft, in 2005.

 

Favre was 35 years old when the 2005 season started. What are the Colts doing for Peyton at age 33? Peyton will be 34 years old when next season starts, but the owner Jim Irsay came out and publicly stated that he is going to sign Peyton to a new multiyear contract before this season is over. Why did Jim Irsay do that? Because Peyton Manning retiring a Colt is a lot more important to Irsay then taking a chance on a losing season. It's what fans want too. Tell me one Packer fan who wouldn't have wanted to see Favre retire as a Packer. Tell me any Packer fan who wouldn't have gladly went through a few six win seasons to see that happen. Favre has always been about the dramatics and him retiring a Packer would have been dramatic. Too bad the Packer fans missed out on that.

 

 

 

The Packers have all kinds of problems and I am sure it starts with the players not trusting the organization. All of the players realize that this is a business for them, but why should they have any loyalty at all to a team that will kick a legendary QB like Favre to the curb?

 

You want to know the difference between Favre and Rodgers in 2007 and 2008? Favre won. How long has it been since the Packers could say they were a winner? Go back to the Favre days to see that.

 

 

 

I must have missed something but how many games did Rodgers win?

 

There is a HUGE difference between going 13-3 and making it to the NFC Championship Game over going 6-10.

 

The Packers SCREWED UP. The only people who don't think so are Packer Fans who are still in denial and other NFL fans who have hated Favre for years. You HATE Favre so you are trying to spin this as if I am his biggest fan. Well I am not and your trying to make things something different than they are won't work. Realize what the reality of this situation is and get over yourself already.

 

No Matter how it is sliced or diced, the Packers Fudged Up Big Time!

 

Favre has been winning every since he left Green Bay.

Mr Hammock - You have to seriously just sit back and think about what you are saying. You make no sense in the context of a football fan or a Packer fan. The only way you and Hoyle make sense is from a Favre fan.

 

You need to stop living in the past. Nobody will argue that Favre WAS a great QB and WAS better than Rodgers. I think there are 32 teams in the NFL who if they had a choice to have Favre NOW or Rodgers NOW ALL 32 would choose Rodgers. Rodgers will probably never have the career that Favre had - hell - 100's of QB's will never have the career Favre had. Notice I keep saying had. YOu have conveniently left out the 4-12 season under Favre's leadership a couple years back.

 

You bring up Brady and Manning - I doubt Brady and Manning would pull all the stunts that Favre has pulled and if they did I can totally see Belicheck pulling the plug on him. Do you seriously think Belicheck would let a player hold the team hostage?

 

You say TT and McCarthy suck. How is the free agent pick up of Woodson? That one move is huge - He has been nothing but spectacular. Grant from the Giants is huge. Looks like the draft of Finley will reap rewards. Rodgers looks to be a great pick at the bottom of the first round. Jennings is a top 5-7 WR.

 

Picking Rodgers was a great pick and if a GM ever takes one players emotions into a draft decision that GM has serious problems and should be gone. The fact that you don't think TT should have drafted Rodgers because it would hurt Favre's emotions proves that you really have no real football knowledge and I do believe that from now on when people see your posts they will read for comedy only.

 

You may be a smart dude in life (I really have no idea) but you really have no idea what you are talking about in this topic.

[Mr Hammock]

The Packers moved on. I think you should too.

 

The Packers made foolish decisions to move on. I am just holding them accountable.

 

How many games have they won since Brett moved on?

[drewjh]

The Packers made foolish decisions to move on. I am just holding them accountable.

 

How many games have they won since Brett moved on?

 

In your opinion they made foolish decisions, and as we all have realized your opinions don't account for much.

[Mr Hammock]

Mr Hammock - You have to seriously just sit back and think about what you are saying. You make no sense in the context of a football fan or a Packer fan. The only way you and Hoyle make sense is from a Favre fan.

 

You need to stop living in the past. Nobody will argue that Favre WAS a great QB and WAS better than Rodgers. I think there are 32 teams in the NFL who if they had a choice to have Favre NOW or Rodgers NOW ALL 32 would choose Rodgers. Rodgers will probably never have the career that Favre had - hell - 100's of QB's will never have the career Favre had. Notice I keep saying had. YOu have conveniently left out the 4-12 season under Favre's leadership a couple years back.

 

You bring up Brady and Manning - I doubt Brady and Manning would pull all the stunts that Favre has pulled and if they did I can totally see Belicheck pulling the plug on him. Do you seriously think Belicheck would let a player hold the team hostage?

 

You say TT and McCarthy suck. How is the free agent pick up of Woodson? That one move is huge - He has been nothing but spectacular. Grant from the Giants is huge. Looks like the draft of Finley will reap rewards. Rodgers looks to be a great pick at the bottom of the first round. Jennings is a top 5-7 WR.

 

Picking Rodgers was a great pick and if a GM ever takes one players emotions into a draft decision that GM has serious problems and should be gone. The fact that you don't think TT should have drafted Rodgers because it would hurt Favre's emotions proves that you really have no real football knowledge and I do believe that from now on when people see your posts they will read for comedy only.

 

You may be a smart dude in life (I really have no idea) but you really have no idea what you are talking about in this topic.

 

You don't do to a Legendary QB for your franchise the way the Packers did Favre. You just don't do that. When he beats them twice this year they will get what they deserve.

 

How many games have they won since Brett left?

 

Bottom line is they went 6-10 last season. Had they just kept Brett during a down season then he would have likely just moved on and it would have been a great ending to a great career. But instead the Packers drafted who many people thought was the best QB in the draft in 2005. They pushed him out the door and what did they gain from it? Nothing and lost a hell of a lot in the process. Big Mistake.

 

Packer fans will be able to reflect one day and see how right I am.

 

How did all of this turn out for the Packers and their fans?

Edited September 21, 2009 by Mr Hammock

[Mr Hammock]

In your opinion they made foolish decisions, and as we all have realized your opinions don't account for much.

 

Winning only 7 out of 18 games without Favre and not making the playoffs last year proves me right. And just look at the Packers now. They are in serious trouble.

[gbpfan1231]

You don't do to a Legendary QB for your franchise the way the Packers did Favre. You just don't do that. When he beats them twice this year they will get what they deserve.

 

How many games have they won since Brett left?

 

Bottom line is they went 6-10 last season. Had they just kept Brett during a down season then he would have likely just moved on and it would have been a great ending to a great career. But instead the Packers drafted who many people thought was the best QB in the draft in 2005. They pushed him out the door and what did they gain from it? Nothing and lost a hell of a lot in the process. Big Mistake.

 

Packer fans will be able to reflect one day and see how right I am.

 

How did all of this turn out for the Packers and their fans?

What did they gain from it? Umm a future? The decision to pick Rodgers and let Favre go had everything to do with the future. This team is much better off for the future than they would have been by throwing away a few years just to keep ONE player happy. This is a team game - that I think is your biggest fault. It is NEVER about one player.

[Mr Hammock]

What did they gain from it? Umm a future? The decision to pick Rodgers and let Favre go had everything to do with the future. This team is much better off for the future than they would have been by throwing away a few years just to keep ONE player happy. This is a team game - that I think is your biggest fault. It is NEVER about one player.

 

This one player was the face of the Packers franchise for years. You have to ease them into retirement and the Packers just kicked him out the door in 2005 by signing a first round QB. No loyalty and No Class on the Packers part. The are reaping what they deserve.

[tosberg34]

Winning only 7 out of 18 games without Favre and not making the playoffs last year proves me right. And just look at the Packers now. They are in serious trouble.

 

And Favre only went 8-8 with the Jets last season. How much better is that than 6-10? Give me a break, dude. Now you're just being ridiculous.

[tosberg34]

This one player was the face of the Packers franchise for years. You have to ease them into retirement and the Packers just kicked him out the door in 2005 by signing a first round QB. No loyalty and No Class on the Packers part. The are reaping what they deserve.

 

"The FACE" of the franchise felt he was bigger than the team and that's what started the whole situation. While I do believe both sides could have handled it better I think it could have been avoided had Favre actually had the intereset of the team in mind instead of himself.

[drewjh]

Winning only 7 out of 18 games without Favre and not making the playoffs last year proves me right. And just look at the Packers now. They are in serious trouble.

 

Serious trouble? It's week two and they are 1-1. Do you think they would be in a better position right now with Favre behind center, especially with the struggles with their o-line thus far?

[Mr Hammock]

And Favre only went 8-8 with the Jets last season. How much better is that than 6-10? Give me a break, dude. Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

The difference is Favre retiring a Packer. You are making my point for me. What did the Packers really have to lose? What if they would have spent that 2005 pick on someone who could actually help the team, with Favre? Just imagine if they would have picked up someone like Roddy White, Luis Castillo, or Marlin Jackson instead of a QB sitting on the bench doing absolutely nothing for the team for 3 years.

 

The Packers made too many mistakes here.

 

"The FACE" of the franchise felt he was bigger than the team and that's what started the whole situation. While I do believe both sides could have handled it better I think it could have been avoided had Favre actually had the intereset of the team in mind instead of himself.

 

Okay sir think about this. Today when you get to work, imagine that your boss hires someone to do your job and tells you to have them ready by next year. Think about this for a second. It doesn't even matter if you are great or once great at your job, but do you want your boss dictating when you should retire or move on?

 

Think about this in realistic terms.

 

Realistic.

[Mr Hammock]

Serious trouble? It's week two and they are 1-1. Do you think they would be in a better position right now with Favre behind center, especially with the struggles with their o-line thus far?

 

Yeah, they are in trouble. They just lost to the Cincinnati Bengals. The Packers are going backwards.

[electricrelish]

And Favre only went 8-8 with the Jets last season. How much better is that than 6-10? Give me a break, dude. Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

The NY Jets were 9-7 in 2008.

[Mr Hammock]

The NY Jets were 9-7 in 2008.

 

+1

[gbpfan1231]

+1

Good point Hammock - I take everything back - this changes everything. Hammock is the smartest.

[tosberg34]

The difference is Favre retiring a Packer. You are making my point for me. What did the Packers really have to lose? What if they would have spent that 2005 pick on someone who could actually help the team, with Favre? Just imagine if they would have picked up someone like Roddy White, Luis Castillo, or Marlin Jackson instead of a QB sitting on the bench doing absolutely nothing for the team for 3 years.

 

The Packers made too many mistakes here.

 

 

 

Okay sir think about this. Today when you get to work, imagine that your boss hires someone to do your job and tells you to have them ready by next year. Think about this for a second. It doesn't even matter if you are great or once great at your job, but do you want your boss dictating when you should retire or move on?

 

Think about this in realistic terms.

 

Realistic.

 

I appreciate your zeal in defending Favre but the fact of the matter is FAVRE created the whole mess. Again, and for the last time, when one player thinks he is bigger than the whole team then it IS time to move on, and GB did just that. You can't just say GB has no class without including Favre as well. We here in WI an d all GB fans have moved on, so should you.

 

This will be my last post on the matter. It's clear you're unable to think with a level head.

[tosberg34]

The NY Jets were 9-7 in 2008.

I stand corrected.

[detlef]

Okay sir think about this. Today when you get to work, imagine that your boss hires someone to do your job and tells you to have them ready by next year. Think about this for a second. It doesn't even matter if you are great or once great at your job, but do you want your boss dictating when you should retire or move on?

 

Think about this in realistic terms.

 

Realistic.

And when you get to work today, imagine what your boss would do if you kept wondering aloud, "Gee, I wonder how much longer I'm going to want to do this job. Really thinking about hanging it up after this year."