Dog/Puppy help

[MrTed46]

2 weeks ago my girlfriend and I adopted a Labrador Terrier mix from a non-kill shelter. We got the puppy very young at 10 weeks old. I had raised puppies before but she hasn't (just giving background info). From the day we got him we noticed some aggression problems. He growls and get annoyed very easily, he lunges at peoples faces and wants to bite, barks (without wagging the tail) when he is aggravated, when he is around others dogs he gets very aggressive (bites, growls, etc), he also bit me pretty hard last night on my toe after I told him "no" when he was biting furniture and finally again last night, his tennis ball went under the couch and instead of barking like normal dogs do, he just sat there growling as if he wanted to kill someone. Another strange thing that occurred a few days ago me and my family raised a Pit Bull who is not 7 years old and when my sister moved out she took him and is taking care of him, he is the nicest calmest dog I have ever met. We introduce the Pit to the Lab and the Lab went absolutely nuts, challenging the Pit and biting him, growling at him, provoking him, etc. Mind you the Lab is 13Lbs and the Pit is 90lbs and luckily the Pit is so well behaved he did not attack the Lab but I can tell the Pit was NOT HAPPY.

 

I am VERY concerned that this behavior is at SUCH a young age. I have raise puppies before and never experienced this type of aggressiveness. I was expecting the typical stuff but this is not only overwhelming but I am also nervous I am going to have a dog that I cant trust around kids, people, or other animals.

 

Another concern of mine, my girlfriend is starting to lose faith in the dog and is actually nervous around him. I am beginning to think she is starting to fear the little guy and this is a problem with me because it will take both of us to raise this puppy.

 

The only background information I got on the dog is that it was saved from a kill farm in Virginia and I assume it was separated from its liter at around 7 weeks old.

 

My options are to return him to the no-kill shelter I got him from and hopefully someone with professional training can help this dog or keep the dog and try myself (but I am getting nervous).

 

What are your opinions on this behavior and what would you do? I am not downplaying his behavior...in the 2 weeks I had him his aggressive behavior its getting worst and I am not one to be scared of dogs as I love them (hence we rescued one).

[rocknrobn26]

2 weeks ago my girlfriend and I adopted a Labrador Terrier mix from a non-kill shelter. We got the puppy very young at 10 weeks old. I had raised puppies before but she hasn't (just giving background info). From the day we got him we noticed some aggression problems. He growls and get annoyed very easily, he lunges at peoples faces and wants to bite, barks (without wagging the tail) when he is aggravated, when he is around others dogs he gets very aggressive (bites, growls, etc), he also bit me pretty hard last night on my toe after I told him "no" when he was biting furniture and finally again last night, his tennis ball went under the couch and instead of barking like normal dogs do, he just sat there growling as if he wanted to kill someone. Another strange thing that occurred a few days ago me and my family raised a Pit Bull who is not 7 years old and when my sister moved out she took him and is taking care of him, he is the nicest calmest dog I have ever met. We introduce the Pit to the Lab and the Lab went absolutely nuts, challenging the Pit and biting him, growling at him, provoking him, etc. Mind you the Lab is 13Lbs and the Pit is 90lbs and luckily the Pit is so well behaved he did not attack the Lab but I can tell the Pit was NOT HAPPY.

 

I am VERY concerned that this behavior is at SUCH a young age. I have raise puppies before and never experienced this type of aggressiveness. I was expecting the typical stuff but this is not only overwhelming but I am also nervous I am going to have a dog that I cant trust around kids, people, or other animals.

 

Another concern of mine, my girlfriend is starting to lose faith in the dog and is actually nervous around him. I am beginning to think she is starting to fear the little guy and this is a problem with me because it will take both of us to raise this puppy.

 

The only background information I got on the dog is that it was saved from a kill farm in Virginia and I assume it was separated from its liter at around 7 weeks old.

 

My options are to return him to the no-kill shelter I got him from and hopefully someone with professional training can help this dog or keep the dog and try myself (but I am getting nervous).

 

What are your opinions on this behavior and what would you do? I am not downplaying his behavior...in the 2 weeks I had him his aggressive behavior its getting worst and I am not one to be scared of dogs as I love them (hence we rescued one).

 

IMHO, it's pretty obvious he was taken from the litter too soon and was not socialized well.

The best advice I have is PM Sugar Magnolia. I'm sure she can help.

[MrTed46]

IMHO, it's pretty obvious he was taken from the litter too soon and was not socialized well.

The best advice I have is PM Sugar Magnolia. I'm sure she can help.

 

I will and thanks.

[i_am_the_swammi]

We are putting in an electric fence for our new pup (7 months) and the guy came out for a consultation a week or so ago. While we were chatting about which fences are good for which breeds, he continued to bring up that terriers are very tough dogs, and he has many owners of them that resort to fences of some sort so their dogs can't get to pedestrians on the sidewalks, who may be walking pets, or to children.

 

SM may have some advice for you on how to better train her, but in some breeds, traits are inherent. Our new pup is a lab/border colliw mix, and due to here herding mentality, is always on edge whenever the kids are outside, and we are inside...she just paces, barks, gets defensive if another kid enters the yard and she is not outside to make sure its OK.

 

As she acclimates to your home, I am sure she'll take on some of your traits and start to mellow, but do know the terrier breed (from what I have been told) can be a tough one to manage.

Edited May 17, 2010 by i_am_the_swammi

[SEC=UGA]

It's his terrier side coming out. Terriers, of all most all breeds, are vicious little bastards IMHO.

[MrTed46]

It's his terrier side coming out. Terriers, of all most all breeds, are vicious little bastards IMHO.

 

Yeah

 

This upsets me alot...I fell in love with the dog. I think it's best for me to bring him back and hope a professional person can try to rehab him. He acts as if it's him versus the world. He has become attached to us and vice versa, it will be very sad if I do give him back. Very depressing.

[Azazello1313]

seems young enough that you should be able to work with it. I don't know if it's the best advice or not, so please take with a grain of salt, but my reaction when I read your description is that he needs to have the everloving schit scared out of him when he acts up like that. he has to be put into a totally submissive position until he has no desire to resist. every time. if your GF is showing fear and avoidance already that is a bad sign. dogs think differently than we do, he has to know he's at the bottom of the social totem pole, and once those boundaries are defined for him he can start to flourish. so you gotta get all alpha dog in his grille when he acts out like that. my thought, anyway. but yeah, with certain types of terrier you're going to have to be pretty proactive with this stuff, because they can be, umm, rather assertive

[MrTed46]

seems young enough that you should be able to work with it. I don't know if it's the best advice or not, so please take with a grain of salt, but my reaction when I read your description is that he needs to have the everloving schit scared out of him when he acts up like that. he has to be put into a totally submissive position until he has no desire to resist. every time. if your GF is showing fear and avoidance already that is a bad sign. dogs think differently than we do, he has to know he's at the bottom of the social totem pole, and once those boundaries are defined for him he can start to flourish. so you gotta get all alpha dog in his grille when he acts out like that. my thought, anyway. but yeah, with certain types of terrier you're going to have to be pretty proactive with this stuff, because they can be, umm, rather assertive

 

I correct him everytime and the little bastard doesn't care. He one time got up from his submissive stance I put him in and lunged at me wanting me so I repeated the process. He also growls when he plays with his toys and one time I saw his hair stand up as if he was pissed off.

 

This is such a hard decision...I am goin to call the rescue place later and see what they say. If I do return him I would want to make sure he goes to a nice place as I am attached to him. Unfortunately, I work most of the day that's why I need my girlfriend to be 100% on board so she can watch him when I am not there. And if she is scared of him...the plans going to toilet. I don't blame her for being scared though, he has a crazed look when he gets into his aggression.

Edited May 17, 2010 by MrTed46

[Azazello1313]

I correct him everytime and the little bastard doesn't care. He one time got up from his submissive stance I put him in and lunged at me wanting me so I repeated the process.

 

then it sounds like he's not getting the point. but it seems like you're right....at this point, it might be better if someone with real knowledge and expertise had a go with him while he's still young and it might still be corrected.

[NAUgrad]

seems young enough that you should be able to work with it. I don't know if it's the best advice or not, so please take with a grain of salt, but my reaction when I read your description is that he needs to have the everloving schit scared out of him when he acts up like that. he has to be put into a totally submissive position until he has no desire to resist. every time. if your GF is showing fear and avoidance already that is a bad sign. dogs think differently than we do, he has to know he's at the bottom of the social totem pole, and once those boundaries are defined for him he can start to flourish. so you gotta get all alpha dog in his grille when he acts out like that. my thought, anyway. but yeah, with certain types of terrier you're going to have to be pretty proactive with this stuff, because they can be, umm, rather assertive

This is exactly right. We have a lab schnawser (sp.) mix and was fairly aggressive with us as well. My wife and I both put the dog on her back and basically held her there sometimes with my hand losely around the dogs neck until she calmed down and understood whose in charge. It took a little doing and we had to repeat the process a number of times, but she is now a very sweet dog with no aggression issues toward the kids or us. Other dogs, that's another story.

[Square]

I look at it this way. You either have the time, knowledge, and discipline to work on this dog or you don't. Unless you see yourself learning more (I would suggest Leerburg videos) it doesn't sound like things are going to end up ok. You might have bit off more than you can chew with taking an aggressive puppy from a pound.

 

Personally, I've never wanted to risk having a dog with aggressive issues around kids so I end up with fat/lazy dogs that probably would watch as a serial killer takes an axe to me. The upside is that my 2yo daughter tries to ride his 100 pound lazy butt and he just looks at me like he wants me to get her to stop picking on him. I'd say start over and get a well bread lab of some kind that has been with their litter for at least 9-10 weeks. Good luck regardless. Just remember that dogs are long term commitments (at least a decade) so you'll do well to set yourself up for long term success.

[The Irish Doggy]

Now I'm no dog expert, but I've raised a couple now (no terriers) and read a couple puppy training books recently. Grab a puppies for dummies or some such. They are full of good ideas.

 

From the original post, I wonder if you reward good behavior or just punish the negative behavior? I've found that rewarding a good behavior in place of a bad behavior often achieves results that punishment does not. Think of it sort of like beating a bad habit by replacing the habit with a good or at least neutral habit.

 

For example. We couldn't be outside with our dog because she would bark incessantly at neighbors or folks out for a walk. Obviously that is annoying to our neighbors and we wanted to be able to stay outside. So, instead of repeating "No!" a hundred times or leaving her inside, we started working with her outside. Whenever she refrained from barking, she got a treat and positive verbal rewards. We generally have to keep treats around to reinforce the behavior, but it has worked well overall. And a bag of little treats costs nothing next to the satisfaction of a behaving dog.

 

The worst thing you can do is get excited or fearful about the bad behavior. That kind of emotion can actually increase the bad behavior in your dog. You don't want the dog to be afraid of you and you won't be able to catch it as it gets older and faster to do the dominating thing.

 

Relax. Stay calm and reward the behaviors you want. It can be tough because its easy to think "the dog doesn't get it", "the dog doesn't like me", etc. Dogs don't reason like we do, so don't put those human traits/thought processes onto them.

 

Whenever your pup is sitting quietly, playing with an appropriate toy, or doing anything you like, be sure to verbally reward that behavior. Generally speaking, the more you reward the behavior that you want, the less you'll see of the behavior you don't want. Don't fall into the trap of only punishing negative behaviors and ignoring the puppy when they are being good.

 

If you are not already, start simple training commands like sit during meal time. Its a great way to have positive interactions with the puppy. You can just use the regular kibble. Remember a hungry dog is a motivated and good dog. Meal time is great for training time.

 

One thing my wife and I did during meal time with the puppy was sit on opposite sides of a room with the puppy kibble and take turns calling the puppy and feeding her a little of the food. She learned her name, to come when called, and had positive interaction time with us both. It can get monotonous, but you can start working in the commands once they get the hang of the basic back and forth. I call the puppy, say puppy sit, feed, and verbal praise. She calls the puppy, says puppy down, feed, verbal praise. repeat.

 

Be sure the GF is doing the training too. She should be giving him treats and verbal rewards as well. Even for something as simple as laying quietly while you watch TV should be rewarded with praise and pets - calming praise and pets, not excited praise and pets.

 

One other thing that has worked for us (and its sounds crazy I admit): Say the dog is chewing on a shoe or the couch. Instead of getting angry at the dog, get angry at the shoe or couch. Yes, express disappointment at the object the dog is destroying and not the dog. Do this while the dog is watching. You gotta sell it because you will feel silly telling the shoe that the shoe is bad or that you are very angry with the couch. Get close to the spot where the dog is chewing on the couch and direct your displeasure at that spot. From the dog's point of view, he is not rewarded with attention and he learns which objects are not OK to chew. After you are done scolding the couch, get one of the good toys and play with the puppy and the toy (with verbal praise of course). It worked for a Brittney Spaniel and Labradoodle I know anyway.

[Hugh 0ne]

I think you need to draw down on his ass.

[MrTed46]

I think you need to draw down on his ass.

 

ill need a special knove

[Hugh 0ne]

ill need a special knove

 

Don't bring a knove to a gunfoght, moran.

[Sugar Magnolia]

When a 10 week old puppy shows this kind of aggression it is a good news/bad news scenario. A puppy this young showing this broad spectrum of aggression is highly unusual and probably has a genetic base. The good news is the puppy is young so you have time to work on it. The range of aggression he is showing and to the extent he is showing it, I can't even give advice via a forum post. You need to see a good behaviorist and right away. If you PM me I can find one for you in your area.

 

Irsh Doggy han a really good post. Especially at this age, reinforcing the behavior you want is the best way to go. It is much easier to teach a dog what is the right behavior than correct them for the wrong behavior. If you overly correct/punish you will teach your puppy to not trust you, and will become afraid. Stress, frustration and fear are the three leading causes of aggression. A good behaviorist will teach you how to mark and reward the right behavior. If your dog doesn't trust you, he will not bond, and relax around you, exascerbating the problem. You showing fear will increase the behavior. Again, a good behaviorist will show you how to reward the right behavior, motivate your puppy to do things right, and build his confidence. When that occurs, the aggression will diminish or go away. You will be confident to approach him without fearing him, so he can start to relax. A behaviorist will teach you to read dog body language so you can interpret correctly when he is showing fear, over threshold, and about to bite. The more he bites, growls, snaps, or lunges the more that behavior gets reinforced. It is necessary to set him up to be right, so he doesn't act out at all. A good behaviorist will teach you how to be a pack leader without using force and intimidation.

This will help him relax and learn to trust you.

 

My biggest concern in regards to your post is that he is growled at his toy when it went under the sofa. This means at best, a dog with a very low tolerance level who gets frustrated easily, and defaults to aggression. He will need to learn patience and impulse control. Terriers in general are not known for these traits as it is. The worst case is there is something neurological going on. Extreme aggression in a young puppy, that is getting an enriched life and proper guidance, is not normal.

[rocknrobn26]

When a 10 week old puppy shows this kind of aggression it is a good news/bad news scenario. A puppy this young showing this broad spectrum of aggression is highly unusual and probably has a genetic base. The good news is the puppy is young so you have time to work on it. The range of aggression he is showing and to the extent he is showing it, I can't even give advice via a forum post. You need to see a good behaviorist and right away. If you PM me I can find one for you in your area.

 

Irsh Doggy han a really good post. Especially at this age, reinforcing the behavior you want is the best way to go. It is much easier to teach a dog what is the right behavior than correct them for the wrong behavior. If you overly correct/punish you will teach your puppy to not trust you, and will become afraid. Stress, frustration and fear are the three leading causes of aggression. A good behaviorist will teach you how to mark and reward the right behavior. If your dog doesn't trust you, he will not bond, and relax around you, exascerbating the problem. You showing fear will increase the behavior. Again, a good behaviorist will show you how to reward the right behavior, motivate your puppy to do things right, and build his confidence. When that occurs, the aggression will diminish or go away. You will be confident to approach him without fearing him, so he can start to relax. A behaviorist will teach you to read dog body language so you can interpret correctly when he is showing fear, over threshold, and about to bite. The more he bites, growls, snaps, or lunges the more that behavior gets reinforced. It is necessary to set him up to be right, so he doesn't act out at all. A good behaviorist will teach you how to be a pack leader without using force and intimidation.

This will help him relax and learn to trust you.

 

My biggest concern in regards to your post is that he is growled at his toy when it went under the sofa. This means at best, a dog with a very low tolerance level who gets frustrated easily, and defaults to aggression. He will need to learn patience and impulse control. Terriers in general are not known for these traits as it is. The worst case is there is something neurological going on. Extreme aggression in a young puppy, that is getting an enriched life and proper guidance, is not normal.

Shug is our resident Goddess of Knowledge of dogs. Much like Doc, though in a different venue.

Excellent advice here. She helped us big time and her advice is solid GOLD!

Mr. Ted, heed her words or take the dog back. FWIW...Our first dog was a Terrier mix w/ Dalmation and no aggression but major separation anxiety. She ate $100's (of stuff) in 1975 $$$ in the day. After good training (though some may think it was cruel) she turned into prolly the best dog we ever had.

I can understand why you want to send the dog back. We almost did on that first dog, but we persevered. Aggression is a lot bigger problem. Our second dog Hershey (125# Lab) had some aggression problems (mostly alpha crap), but the "lay on their back and show him who was boss" worked well. But so did him getting snipped.

Don't feel you have to "succeed" as a pride thing. Sorry to say some dogs are just not trainable for many of us. Maybe returning the dog and getting another is best. YOU and your GF have to decide that.

I wish the best for yall.

rr26

[westvirginia]

Shug is our resident Goddess of Knowledge of dogs. Much like Doc, though in a different venue.

Excellent advice here. She helped us big time and her advice is solid GOLD!

Mr. Ted, heed her words or take the dog back. FWIW...Our first dog was a Terrier mix w/ Dalmation and no aggression but major separation anxiety. She ate $100's (of stuff) in 1975 $$ in the day. After good training (though some may think it was cruel) she turned into prolly the best dog we ever had.

I can understand why you want to send the dog back. We almost did on that first dog, but we persevered. Aggression is a lot bigger problem. Our second dog Hershey (125# Lab) had some aggression problems (mostly alpha crap), but the "lay on their back and show him who was boss" worked well. But so did him getting snipped.

Don't feel you have to "succeed" as a pride thing. Sorry to say some dogs are just not trainable for many of us. Maybe returning the dog and getting another is best. YOU and your GF have to decide that.

I wish the best for yall.

rr26

 

What, Sug works on dogs and Doc works on bitches?

[Square]

What, Sug works on dogs and Doc works on bitches?

[SteelBunz]

It's just so important for people to match a dog to their own tolerances. If it were just a case of a puppy that was weaned too early and neglected, I'd say keep trying. My big rescued boxer had been neglected and had a case of ANY attention was good attention to him.....lol. He'd do bad stuff he knew he shouldn't do just to get the attention....good or bad. Didn't matter....lol. You'd scold him and he'd stand there wagging his tail with that devilish gleam in his eyes saying, "Are you sure?" Took a very long time for him to distinguish good attention from bad attention...but he was a big snuggle bunny...just impish.

 

But you add aggression into the mix......that takes a certain kind of owner. The short fuse and impatience defaulting to aggression is worrisome...Sugar is on the money. I rarely say this, but with your girlfriend being new to dog ownership and your fears already, I think you are better off returning him to the shelter. He needs a more experienced owner. And you guys need a more light-hearted dog!

 

At least he's young enough that he has a chance to rehabilitate with the right owner.

[SEC=UGA]

Get a basset hound and call it a day. Though, they are stubborn as hell and hard to house break.

[MrTed46]

When a 10 week old puppy shows this kind of aggression it is a good news/bad news scenario. A puppy this young showing this broad spectrum of aggression is highly unusual and probably has a genetic base. The good news is the puppy is young so you have time to work on it. The range of aggression he is showing and to the extent he is showing it, I can't even give advice via a forum post. You need to see a good behaviorist and right away. If you PM me I can find one for you in your area.

 

Irsh Doggy han a really good post. Especially at this age, reinforcing the behavior you want is the best way to go. It is much easier to teach a dog what is the right behavior than correct them for the wrong behavior. If you overly correct/punish you will teach your puppy to not trust you, and will become afraid. Stress, frustration and fear are the three leading causes of aggression. A good behaviorist will teach you how to mark and reward the right behavior. If your dog doesn't trust you, he will not bond, and relax around you, exascerbating the problem. You showing fear will increase the behavior. Again, a good behaviorist will show you how to reward the right behavior, motivate your puppy to do things right, and build his confidence. When that occurs, the aggression will diminish or go away. You will be confident to approach him without fearing him, so he can start to relax. A behaviorist will teach you to read dog body language so you can interpret correctly when he is showing fear, over threshold, and about to bite. The more he bites, growls, snaps, or lunges the more that behavior gets reinforced. It is necessary to set him up to be right, so he doesn't act out at all. A good behaviorist will teach you how to be a pack leader without using force and intimidation.

This will help him relax and learn to trust you.

 

My biggest concern in regards to your post is that he is growled at his toy when it went under the sofa. This means at best, a dog with a very low tolerance level who gets frustrated easily, and defaults to aggression. He will need to learn patience and impulse control. Terriers in general are not known for these traits as it is. The worst case is there is something neurological going on. Extreme aggression in a young puppy, that is getting an enriched life and proper guidance, is not normal.

 

Sug I appreciate your informative post!

 

I spoke to my GF last night and I am returning the puppy tomorrow after work. We are both really attached to him as we love him and he has a big attachment to us already but it has to be done. Last night he bit her father to the point where it broke skin and he bleed (nothing serious) and again he attacked my 7yr old pit bull by biting his ankle and the pit bull actually let out a warning growl/whimper, which he NEVER does. The puppy is smart and playful however his aggression is not something I feel I can deal with. If I had more disposable time (more so than the usual pup requires) I would try my hardest to rehabilitate him, but given the current situation I am going to notify the rescue and hopefully they can find someone willing to put the time and love into him. I have no doubt that he can become a great dog but I cant take that chance due to his anger.

 

 

I am very sad about all of this.

[SEC=UGA]

Sug I appreciate your informative post!

 

I spoke to my GF last night and I am returning the puppy tomorrow after work. We are both really attached to him as we love him and he has a big attachment to us already but it has to be done. Last night he bit her father to the point where it broke skin and he bleed (nothing serious) and again he attacked my 7yr old pit bull by biting his ankle and the pit bull actually let out a warning growl/whimper, which he NEVER does. The puppy is smart and playful however his aggression is not something I feel I can deal with. If I had more disposable time (more so than the usual pup requires) I would try my hardest to rehabilitate him, but given the current situation I am going to notify the rescue and hopefully they can find someone willing to put the time and love into him. I have no doubt that he can become a great dog but I cant take that chance due to his anger.

 

 

I am very sad about all of this.

 

It has got to be tough returning the little guy, but I think your reasons are HIGHLY warranted. Go out and have dinner tonight and go home and give your pit a big hug.. Should help a little bit.

[Square]

 

I am very sad about all of this.

It sucks, but I think you are doing the right thing. It's not going to be "easy" with any pup as they take a lot of time. But if your GF is going to be primary and you have limited time (and experience with an aggressive dog) I really think long term you are doing what is right for both you and the dog.

[Azazello1313]

Sug I appreciate your informative post!

 

I spoke to my GF last night and I am returning the puppy tomorrow after work. We are both really attached to him as we love him and he has a big attachment to us already but it has to be done. Last night he bit her father to the point where it broke skin and he bleed (nothing serious) and again he attacked my 7yr old pit bull by biting his ankle and the pit bull actually let out a warning growl/whimper, which he NEVER does. The puppy is smart and playful however his aggression is not something I feel I can deal with. If I had more disposable time (more so than the usual pup requires) I would try my hardest to rehabilitate him, but given the current situation I am going to notify the rescue and hopefully they can find someone willing to put the time and love into him. I have no doubt that he can become a great dog but I cant take that chance due to his anger.

 

 

I am very sad about all of this.

 

you made a good call on this one, for allt he reasons you list.