Baseball stats

[i_am_the_swammi]

OK, so I am usually up-to-speed with most rules in sports, but this one has me baffled. how does baseball go about determining when a pithcer gets credit for a loss? Doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

Last night, Cole Hamels gave up 3 runs in the 1st inning before a long rain delay, from which he never returned. The team then went on to lose 7-3, scoring enough runs to overcome the 3 that Hamels gave up. Why was he still credited with the loss? It seems the pitcher who gave up the deciding run (in this case, the 4th run) should be tagged with the "L".

 

Further, suppose the team had gone onto lose 12-10....would Hamels still get the "L"? At what point is is the pitcher who first gave up the lead in a game off the hook?

[MrTed46]

OK, so I am usually up-to-speed with most rules in sports, but this one has me baffled. how does baseball go about determining when a pithcer gets credit for a loss? Doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

Last night, Cole Hamels gave up 3 runs in the 1st inning before a long rain delay, from which he never returned. The team then went on to lose 7-3, scoring enough runs to overcome the 3 that Hamels gave up. Why was he still credited with the loss? It seems the pitcher who gave up the deciding run (in this case, the 4th run) should be tagged with the "L".

 

Further, suppose the team had gone onto lose 12-10....would Hamels still get the "L"? At what point is is the pitcher who first gave up the lead in a game off the hook?

 

He came into the game with a tie (0-0; started) and left while losing. Unless they tie the score or go ahead and win, he will get the L. If they win, the pitcher who was pitching during the go ahead run will get the W.

 

I am pretty sure thats how it goes but maybe I am wrong also.

[i_am_the_swammi]

He came into the game with a tie (0-0; started) and left while losing. Unless they tie the score or go ahead and win, he will get the L. If they win, the pitcher who was pitching during the go ahead run will get the W.

 

i get the part about who gets the "W"...that makes total sense.

 

doesn't seem fair to the pitcher (or the fantasy baseball owner ) that if a pitcher leaves a game trailing 3-0, and his team goes onto lose, say, 22-20 (for argument's sake), that the pitcher that gave up the first 3 runs gets credited with the loss.

[posty]

Ted is correct, but if you want detail...

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule10.shtml

 

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER

 

10.19 (A) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

 

( The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game.

 

© When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (A) or ( and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis:

 

(1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective;

 

(2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned;

 

(3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;

 

(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game.

 

EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding relief pitcher with the victory.

 

(D) When a pitcher is removed for a substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead.

 

(E) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead.

 

(F) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records.

 

(G) In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.

Edited June 2, 2010 by posty

[MrTed46]

i get the part about who gets the "W"...that makes total sense.

 

doesn't seem fair to the pitcher (or the fantasy baseball owner ) that if a pitcher leaves a game trailing 3-0, and his team goes onto lose, say, 22-20 (for argument's sake), that the pitcher that gave up the first 3 runs gets credited with the loss.

 

I think it's fair because your teams mindset is now to come from behind to win this game...changed the tempo from jump street. It isn't easy to get a run in baseball if you leave with a loss and your team loses you should get the L.

[BillyBalata]

OK, so I am usually up-to-speed with most rules in sports, but this one has me baffled. how does baseball go about determining when a pithcer gets credit for a loss? Doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

Last night, Cole Hamels gave up 3 runs in the 1st inning before a long rain delay, from which he never returned. The team then went on to lose 7-3, scoring enough runs to overcome the 3 that Hamels gave up. Why was he still credited with the loss? It seems the pitcher who gave up the deciding run (in this case, the 4th run) should be tagged with the "L".

 

Further, suppose the team had gone onto lose 12-10....would Hamels still get the "L"? At what point is is the pitcher who first gave up the lead in a game off the hook?

 

 

You would be correct if the Phillies actually scored their 3 runs to "overcome" their 3 run deficit and actually tied the game up. But since they didn't score their 3rd run until after Atlanta had already scored 7 runs, they were losing the entire game and thus Hamels gets the loss.

[i_am_the_swammi]

(E) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead.

(

 

Me thinks this rule is BS.

 

If a pitcher leaves after one innng trailing 1-0, and his replacement gives up 3 runs an inning every inning thereafter, and the team loses 25-24, the guy that gave up just 1 run gets the "L"?

 

Seems unjust.

[Big John]

He came into the game with a tie (0-0; started) and left while losing. Unless they tie the score or go ahead and win, he will get the L. If they win, the pitcher who was pitching during the go ahead run will get the W.

 

I am pretty sure thats how it goes but maybe I am wrong also.

That is close, except a starting pitcher needs to get 5 innings in to get the win, but any relief pitcher can get the win if he is the pitcher of record when the winning runs scores. If the starting pitcher leaves the game early the next pitcher in would be credited with the win if the team maintains the lead throughout the game. (for games at a NL stadium, if he is taken out of the game so that someone can bat for him and the winning run scores in the same inning, he would still be the pitcher of record since a new pitcher was not announced yet for the next inning)

 

For the loss, the pitcer of record is the one who allowed the last run that put the other team ahead regardless of how long he pitched, and he is responsible for runners he allowed to get on base if a relief pitcher is called up. (meaning for example, if a runner is on second in a tie game and the manager pulls him for another pitcher and that runner scores before the 3rd out for the go-ahead run that is not relinquished, that pitcher is charged with the loss and not the pitcher who was pitching when the run scored.) The only way is gets off the hook is if his team ties or goes ahead later in the game.

[MikesVikes]

If there were any lead ch ges after he left, then he would've been off the hook.