good article about "social conservatives"

[Azazello1313]

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/what-do-soc...ervatives-want/

 

Social conservatives talk about real problems but offer irrelevant solutions. They act like the man who searched for his keys under the streetlight because the light was better there.

 

Social conservatives tend to talk about issues like abortion and gay rights, stem-cell research and the role of religion “in the public square”: “Those who would have us ignore the battle being fought over life, marriage and religious liberty have forgotten the lessons of history,” said Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) at the Values Voter Summit.

 

But what is the case for social conservatism that they’ve been making at the summit and in recent interviews?

 

•Mike Huckabee: “We need to understand there is a direct correlation between the stability of families and the stability of our economy…. The real reason we have poverty is we have a breakdown of the basic family structure.”

•Jim DeMint: ”It’s impossible to be a fiscal conservative unless you’re a social conservative because of the high cost of a dysfunctional society.”

•Rick Santorum: “We can have no economic freedom unless we have good, virtuous moral people inspired by their faith.”

 

Those are reasonable concerns, but they have little or no relationship to abortion or gay marriage. Abortion may be a moral crime, but it isn’t the cause of high government spending or intergenerational poverty. And gay people making the emotional and financial commitments of marriage is not the cause of family breakdown or welfare spending.

...

Why all the focus on issues that would do nothing to solve the problems of “breakdown of the basic family structure” and “the high cost of a dysfunctional society”? Well, solving the problems of divorce and unwed motherhood is hard. And lots of Republican and conservative voters have been divorced. A constitutional amendment to ban divorce wouldn’t go over very well with even the social-conservative constituency. Far better to pick on a small group, a group not perceived to be part of the Republican constituency, and blame them for social breakdown and its associated costs.

 

But you won’t find your keys on Main Street if you dropped them on Green Street, and you won’t reduce the costs of social breakdown by keeping gays unmarried and not letting them adopt orphans.

 

amen.

[detlef]

Indeed.

[bpwallace49]

+1

[Perchoutofwater]

I have issues with abortion primarily because I know of so many people that are unable to have children that jump through hoops to adopt and are on waiting lists a mile long. I also have a problem with it as I don't thing it is a federal issue, and that it should be decided by the states. Having said all of that, in ranks somewhere around #50 in things I think conservatives need to be tackling, and would be just fine leaving it to the individual and their God to decide. Given a choice between social conservative that is fiscally liberal and a fiscal conservative that is socially liberal, I'm going to pick the fiscal conservative every time.

[Duchess Jack]

I would bet that the 'social issues' bring more people to the GOP than they scare away people from the GOP.

[Ursa Majoris]

I would bet that the 'social issues' bring more people to the GOP than they scare away people from the GOP.

This.

 

This sentence from the article quoted sums it up:

 

Far better to pick on a small group, a group not perceived to be part of the Republican constituency, and blame them for social breakdown and its associated costs.

 

Classic behavior of the frightened and stupid, who always love a scapegoat. History is full of parallels.

[detlef]

I would bet that the 'social issues' bring more people to the GOP than they scare away people from the GOP.

It sure didn't hurt in 2004 when Bush made a big deal about Gay marriage. Now, I'm not saying that horseface had a chance anyway, but that little round of three-card social issues didn't hurt one bit.

[Azazello1313]

It sure didn't hurt in 2004 when Bush made a big deal about Gay marriage. Now, I'm not saying that horseface had a chance anyway, but that little round of three-card social issues didn't hurt one bit.

 

kind of interesting that there were 4 people on the two tickets in that election, and exactly one of them was in favor of gay marriage. and it wasn't kerry or edwards.

[detlef]

kind of interesting that there were 4 people on the two tickets in that election, and exactly one of them was in favor of gay marriage. and it wasn't kerry or edwards.

As I recall, they sort of pussed out and punted on the issue (which, mind you, was sort of theme with those two) but they also didn't bring it up. My guess would be to put them on the defense which, of course, is a fine strategy for an incumbent.

[Ursa Majoris]

kind of interesting that there were 4 people on the two tickets in that election, and exactly one of them was in favor of gay marriage. and it wasn't kerry or edwards.

Yeah, I've always had real difficulty seeing Dick Cheney as a gay rights activist but he made no bones about it. He may be a monstrous thieving warmongering old turd but he definitely supported his lesbian daughter's and other gay rights.

[westvirginia]

I would bet that the 'social issues' bring more people to the GOP than they scare away people from the GOP.

 

You think so? Really? That's what drove me away from repubs - that and the fact that they don't govern much differently than dems, when you get down to it. I picked the libertarians because another person's bad choices don't create a mortgage on my life.

[Azazello1313]

I would bet that the 'social issues' bring more people to the GOP than they scare away people from the GOP.

 

if that is true, then one wonders why lefties are always trying so hard to paint the GOP as socially conservative as possible.

[evil_gop_liars]

if that is true, then one wonders why lefties are always trying so hard to paint the GOP as socially conservative as possible.

 

Because it brings the loony left to the voting booth to vote against the loony right.

[tosberg34]

Because it brings the loony left to the voting booth to vote against the loony right.

 

Is there any other type of "left"?

[bpwallace49]

Is there any other type of "right"?

[Ursa Majoris]

Is there any other type of "right"?

Fixed

[Azazello1313]

Is there any other type of "left"?

Is there any other type of "right"?

 

not if this stupid exchange is any evidence

[Duchess Jack]

You think so? Really? That's what drove me away from repubs - that and the fact that they don't govern much differently than dems, when you get down to it. I picked the libertarians because another person's bad choices don't create a mortgage on my life.

 

I do. It just seems to me that by and large fiscal conservatives will deal with the social conservative thing because it either doesn't effect their life - or the stuff that they ought not be doing according to the social conservatives is easy enough to hide. Better to deal with those issues than risk the left getting into office and screwing up their finances. Social conservatives on the other hand vote the way their church or hate group tells them to vote and the party their church tells them to vote for is the GOP. Social conservatives seem to vote for a candidate on 2-3 issues that the GOP have a monopoly on. A candidate could eat Mexican children just as long as he was against abortion and gay rights.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I have issues with abortion primarily because I know of so many people that are unable to have children that jump through hoops to adopt and are on waiting lists a mile long.

come on now that is about as lame as an excuse i have seen. if there is such a long list of people waiting why are there so many kids waiting ?

[Ursa Majoris]

come on now that is about as lame as an excuse i have seen. if there is such a long list of people waiting why are there so many kids waiting ?

Bingo. Maybe there's a shortage of blue eyed blond babies?

[Perchoutofwater]

come on now that is about as lame as an excuse i have seen. if there is such a long list of people waiting why are there so many kids waiting ?

 

Why else do you see people going to China and Russia to adopt babies and astronomical costs? I don't know how familiar you are with the adoption process, but I have 4 adopted cousins through adoption agencies and 8 adopted nieces/nephews, two of which were through private adoptions six of which were adopted overseas. If you know anything about the process you would know that it is very cumbersome and takes forever to get approval through typical agencies. I know it took my uncle and aunt about 3 years for each of their children. The cost of adoption is also very prohibitive. The problem is that people want to adopt babies not 5 and 6 year olds that have had years of bad parenting and possibly abuse causing behavioral problems that might put other children in their home at risk. There is no lack of desire to adopt healthy babies. You also find problems finding adoptive parents for handicapped children, though it isn't as bad as you would think.

 

I'd much rather see forced sterilization of drug abusers and welfare mammas that keep spitting out babies than I would abortion, but again the abortion issue is way down on my list of priorities when selecting a candidate. It is more of a tie breaker between two candidates I see as equal in all other regards than a major factor in deciding whether or not to support someone. Also contrary to what I thought a few years ago, I'm not against abortion in all circumstances. There are some very limited circumstances where I actually support it, and would vote against a candidate that was against all abortions regardless of circumstance.

[muck]

In an addendum to the above comments about hateful people in the church and the long lines of people who want to adopt ... I give you the following three stories:

 

Story 1:

A single lady in her 40s from our church survives breast cancer. Fast forward a couple of years ... she believes God wants her to adopt a teenage girl who has cancer that went undiagnosed for a while and she has a terminal diagnosis. The lady from our church completes the adoption process for this rebellious, angry young woman, dying with cancer. This hateful Christian lady then ends up liquidating her 401(k) to pay for the care and treatment of this wreck of a teenager, trying to show her (for the first time in her life) that she is worth being loved. Fast forward a couple more years...the funeral for this young woman was last week.

 

Story 2:

My brother-in-law and sister-in-law adopted two babies out of the inner city. These boys do not have my skin tone, eye color or hair style. The process and cost exceeded $10,000 per child. Oh, and my BIL and SIL have a son of their own, and then adopted two more boys ... why? Because they believed it was what God wanted them to do.

 

Story 3:

A wonderful friend of mine and his wife adopted a girl to whom they were foster parents. She was three when she came to live with them and they adopted her when she was five. Why did they adopt her? Because they believed it was what God wanted them to do. Due to the neglect during her first three years, she developed something called Attachment Disorder (which, no doubt, Untateve could educate us all about), but generally, she is a pathological liar, in capable of normal relationships. Today, she's a 20 year old, pregnant woman who is prostituting herself and selling drugs (while pregnant). If my friend lets this adopted daughter of his back in his house, due to her behavioral issues, they would put the health of their other two girls at risk of permanent harm. They are hopeful that their pregnant daughter will willingly put this baby up for adoption so they do not have to legally force the issue and force her to reliquish the rights to the baby (due to her being unfit) so they can adopt the baby (which they don't want to do as they're both approaching 50yrs). Right now, the baby is due to be named "Bubbles" (regardless if a boy or girl) and will be raised on the backs of the welfare of our nation and under the daily supervision of someone should not have a pet gold fish, much less a child, in their daily care. My friends' legal options with regards making sure their upcoming grandchild has a normal upbringing are really pretty limited.

 

***************************************************

 

So, for everyone with preconceived notions of what a Christian is and what a Christian is not ... and what adoption is and what adoption is not ... I ask you to realize your generalizations and broad brush strokes may be way off base.

[billay]

kind of interesting that there were 4 people on the two tickets in that election, and exactly one of them was in favor of gay marriage. and it wasn't kerry or edwards.

Yeah, I've always had real difficulty seeing Dick Cheney as a gay rights activist but he made no bones about it. He may be a monstrous thieving warmongering old turd but he definitely supported his lesbian daughter's and other gay rights.

 

As I recall, all Cheney would say about gay rights was that it was "an issue for the states." Can somebody show me where he actually came out and said (prior to the 2004 election) that he was of the opinion that gays should enjoy all the rights and privileges of other americans?

 

This is as close as I could find. From the 2000 VP debate with Lieberman:

Mr Cheney said: "We live in a free society and freedom means freedom for everybody . . . it's really no one else's business." He added, "I try to be open-minded about it as much as I can", and said he felt it was up to each state to decide how relationships were recognised.

 

Sounds like a "punt" to me.

[Azazello1313]

I have issues with abortion primarily because I know of so many people that are unable to have children that jump through hoops to adopt and are on waiting lists a mile long.

 

ok, I'll pick on this a bit too. in a moral sense, I can kind of see your point. I see it as a good deed in many ways to forego abortion in favor of adoption. but should there a government fiat mandating it? come on, mr. "get the government nannies off my back". if that's the justification, you may as well have a law that you must clean your plate because there's starving kids in africa.

[evil_gop_liars]

Here's a good "social conservative" Sen. Chambliss' Office Says It Was Source Of 'Faggot' Comment

 

 

 

soon after a Senate vote to block debate on the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' someone wrote "All faggots must die" on the blog of gay rights advocate Joe Jervis.