Azazello1313 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I actually don't think Kubes is a great head coach. great coordinator, and I miss that offense (what a beautiful thing to actually be able to run the ball), but, I dunno. not the worst candidate, but maybe not the best either in my eyes. then there's the fact that he already has a job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Another fun little fact... Orton is in the league 1 year longer than Cutler. so what? not sure what the point is here. Another fun little fact... Orton was designated a starter in his first season, Cutler wasn't. again, so what? many would argue that being thrown right into the fire like that can have a negative impact on QB development. Another fun little fact... Culter has passed for almost 3000 more career yards than Orton has. where did Orton play the first couple years he was in the league again? that might have something to do with the disparity. fact that he only played 3 games in his second year might be relevant as well. Another fun little fact... Culter has passed for almost 25 more career TDs than Orton has. see prior response. it's quite convenient that you left out the fact that he's also thrown 28 more INTs than Orton over that same period, which is probably the more telling of the two stats Oh, Another fun little fact... for Orton to finish at that pace, he has to do a lot better than the 117 yrds he just dueced in KC to reach 4500 yrds. not sure, but I think he might be able to beat that pace . . . Edited December 7, 2010 by Balzac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Back to McDaniels' firing... What is the affect on Denver's offense. I'm sure I'm one of many Orton owners who are wondering if the pass-happy, agressive playcalling is going to stop now that McDaniels is gone. Lloyd owners are probably interested as well. Will the playcalling change significantly? It seems like Moreno's stock has to go up with this news. I'm probably going to take a chance with Kitna at home vs. Philly. Much better chance for garbage time production in that game than Orton vs. the Cards. no idea. who was doing the actual play calling on O - was it McDaniels or did he delegate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 You're kidding, right? Denver got the better end of that trade. Maybe but that move signaled the demolition of the offense. That team needed defense but it was obvious I thought he was making the wrong decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 As a Charger fan, this is bad news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 I actually don't think Kubes is a great head coach. great coordinator, and I miss that offense (what a beautiful thing to actually be able to run the ball), but, I dunno. not the worst candidate, but maybe not the best either in my eyes. then there's the fact that he already has a job... He's gonna get fired after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 so what? not sure what the point is here. You compared their age, I clarified that the 5 months is really 1 year more NFL experience. again, so what? many would argue that being thrown right into the fire like that can have a negative impact on QB development. 1 year more experience, 1 year more to build your stats. where did Orton play the first couple years he was in the league again? Same place Cutler is playing now, right? And he performed less than spectacular there no? see prior response. it's quite convenient that you left out the fact that he's also thrown 28 more INTs than Orton over that same period, which is probably the more telling of the two stats I've already acknowledged more than once Cutlers High INT numbers, but a QB Guru like McD should have wanted to correct that considering the yardage and TDs he was also passing. Elway and Manning also had a hi amount of INTs in their first 2 years, how did that work out for them? not sure, but I think he might be able to beat that pace . . . Unless this team collapses with a new coach... i really don't feel comfortable defending anything to do with Denver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) For all those hoping for an increase in Moreno's numbers for the playoffs with the RB coach taking over: If he plays (or is forced to play by management) Tebow, you're going to see a ton of 8 in the box and forcing Tebow to win with his arm - which I don't think he's anywhere near being ready to do. That also means the rookie members of the O-line are going to be forced into 1 on 1 matchups, and they aren't good enough to win many of those. Be very careful in evaluating this situation. Personally I'm very glad that I have no Broncos on any of my rosters going forward - whether in the running or passing game. Edited December 7, 2010 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 For all those hoping for an increase in Moreno's numbers for the playoffs with the RB coach taking over: If he plays (or is forced to play by management) Tebow, you're going to see a ton of 8 in the box and forcing Tebow to win with his arm - which I don't think he's anywhere near being ready to do. That also means the rookie members of the O-line are going to be forced into 1 on 1 matchups, and they aren't good enough to win many of those. Be very careful in evaluating this situation. Personally I'm very glad that I haqve no Broncos on any of my rosters going forward - whether in the running or passing game. Do you really think managment is intent on Tebow seeing more playing time? I thought he was McD's boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 management wants butts in the seats first and foremost. Tebow would do that. Also, I wouldn't be shocked if Moreno and Tebow were strongly requested by the owner and that we might someday find out that McD wasn't as high on them as we might think. So the fans actually belive Tebow gives them a better shot to win than Orton? I am in sales for a living, and I'd love to meet the guy who sold the Broncos fans on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Do you really think managment is intent on Tebow seeing more playing time? I thought he was McD's boy. I agree he is more of McD's boy, but I also think they'll want to see more of Orton to verify whether or not he's the long-term solution. There will be plenty of time during meaningless games at the end of next season to see what Tebow can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Do you really think managment is intent on Tebow seeing more playing time? I thought he was McD's boy. That doesn't preclude that he's still a 1st round pick (and being paid like one) and that with the season over there's no reason not to see if he can show signs of being able to play the position in the bigs. Plus as Opie mentioned and I alluded to earlier - Bowlen needs to find a way to get the fans back into the seats and buying season tickets for next year. Tebow draws an irrationally large following. Getting Orton off the roster during the offseason would save $8.8M next year, BTW... Edited December 7, 2010 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 That doesn't preclude that he's still a 1st round pick (and being paid like one) and that with the season over there's no reason not to see if he can show signs of being able to play the position in the bigs. Plus as Opie mentioned and I alluded to earlier - Bowlen needs to find a way to get the fans back into the seats and buying season tickets for next year. Tebow draws an irrationally large following. Getting Orton off the roster during the offseason would save $8.8M next year, BTW... I would argue that the interim coach is going to want to put the best players on the field in an attempt to win to show the NFL what he can do. Then again, the decision could come from above to play Tebow. But Studesville's best interest is to do what he can to win games in the hopes he can get a promotion long-term (even to offensive coordinator). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I would argue that the interim coach is going to want to put the best players on the field in an attempt to win to show the NFL what he can do. Then again, the decision could come from above to play Tebow. But Studesville's best interest is to do what he can to win games in the hopes he can get a promotion long-term (even to offensive coordinator). I think that's a good argument also. I am concerned that he will be getting orders from above. I draw that conclusion from the fact that they didn't put a coordinator in charge as usually happens, but went right past them to a position coach. In any case, I really feel that the situation is almost impossible to read clearly. What a terrible season. All this going on, and then you remember the McKinley suicide and then find out the reasons behind that as well. Tough, tough year to be a Broncos' fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 1 year more experience, 1 year more to build your stats. Still not sure it's relevant because I'm not looking at career stats here - 3 full years in CHI compared to 1.75 isn't exactly comparing apples to apples. Orton basically sat out his entire second year anyway, so they're on common ground from a starts standpoint. Huge difference is simply where they've played - Orton has simply never played in a system that completely unleashes him like he's playing in now. Cutler has always chucked, which has resulted in higher yardage totals, TDs and INTs. Same place Cutler is playing now, right? And he performed less than spectacular there no? Way too many variables have changed to make this comparison - I was simply saying that Orton played in a crappy offensive scheme (i.e., they didn't let him throw) when he was over there. Cutler has been good this season with Martz as the OC - huge difference between Martz and the other plodding ground and pounders they had in place previously. I've already acknowledged more than once Cutlers High INT numbers, but a QB Guru like McD should have wanted to correct that considering the yardage and TDs he was also passing. Elway and Manning also had a hi amount of INTs in their first 2 years, how did that work out for them? So did any number of QBs that didn't pan out in the long run. Until Cutler definitively and consistently cuts down on the INTs, he's still just a good QB with a great arm that makes too many mistakes. Yes - he'll be fine as an NFL QB but will be be Manning or Bledsoe? Both have thrown for TONS of yards and TDs, but only one threw too many INTs to make him a talent that is anywhere near elite. Unless this team collapses with a new coach... fair point, but you can't pin that one on Orton i really don't feel comfortable defending anything to do with Denver... haha - finally something we agree on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I would argue that the interim coach is going to want to put the best players on the field in an attempt to win to show the NFL what he can do. Then again, the decision could come from above to play Tebow. But Studesville's best interest is to do what he can to win games in the hopes he can get a promotion long-term (even to offensive coordinator). +1 I think they'd be idiots to put Tebow on the field right now, as the strong likelihood is that he would suck royally and make DEN management looke even dumber (if it's possible at this point). Train wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Well, lets just say as an Orton owner, I'm starting Flacco this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I suspect more decisions came and will come from above than we suspect. I don't buy it. Why are they firing mcdaniels if their personnel decisions are the problem? No reason to actually respond to this rhetorical question but you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Why would a position coach be hired instead of a coordinator? Is it because management doesn't believe the coordinators are any good either? Are they sending a message that says no matter what we are looking outside the organization for a new HC and all coordinators will be let go? Curious moves in my opinion. I'm not sure Kubiak is the right guy. He has amazing history and did a great job as the OC, but he always had Shanny who was very involved in the offense all the time. I know Shanny missed on a number of draft picks and free agent pick ups, but as a Denver fan, you always felt like he was doing everything he felt he could to improve Denver every year. Every year you felt like the team was better than the previous. They weren't always better, but you at least felt like they were getting better. Under McD, I never felt like they were getting any better. He forced the team to play a 3-4 even though they didn't have the players for it. Out of 4 1st round picks in 2 years, you would think there would be a playmaker. I can't think of a single one, and that is why he was so bad. 2 years of draft picks that really haven't provided much to improve the team. Smith was traded to Detroit. Remember, we gave up a 1st round pick to move up and take him in the 2nd round, and then McD just unloads him. Glad Denver is moving on. It could take years before the ship starts to move in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrumjuice Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Gators fans will travel and I bet some would if they knew for a fact that he was going to start. Yeah, 20,000 gators are gonna travel to denver to watch tebow play. Golden girls, I am telling you it is a much better fit for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Why would a position coach be hired instead of a coordinator? Is it because management doesn't believe the coordinators are any good either? Are they sending a message that says no matter what we are looking outside the organization for a new HC and all coordinators will be let go? Curious moves in my opinion. I'm not sure Kubiak is the right guy. He has amazing history and did a great job as the OC, but he always had Shanny who was very involved in the offense all the time. I know Shanny missed on a number of draft picks and free agent pick ups, but as a Denver fan, you always felt like he was doing everything he felt he could to improve Denver every year. Every year you felt like the team was better than the previous. They weren't always better, but you at least felt like they were getting better. Under McD, I never felt like they were getting any better. He forced the team to play a 3-4 even though they didn't have the players for it. Out of 4 1st round picks in 2 years, you would think there would be a playmaker. I can't think of a single one, and that is why he was so bad. 2 years of draft picks that really haven't provided much to improve the team. Smith was traded to Detroit. Remember, we gave up a 1st round pick to move up and take him in the 2nd round, and then McD just unloads him. Glad Denver is moving on. It could take years before the ship starts to move in the right direction. Maybe hiring a position coach would allow the coordinators to simply continue to keep the offense and defense running as expected. The head coach doesn't have to be all that involved in either facet, though usually a HC has a pedigree as either an offensive or defensive guy, and the HC usually has his thumbprint on the offense or defense, depending on his history. I'm glad Denver is moving on too. There are a lot of good coaching candidates out there, but I fear Bowlen won't want to pony up the cash to bring one in. Kubiak wouldn't be as expensive as some of the other guys, and Bowlen knows Kubiak and might be comfortable going that route (a lot of assumptions here). I don't think Bowlen spends the money for a guy like Cowher, Gruden or even Jeff Fisher (if he is available). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) even Jeff Fisher (if he is available). If Fisher has put his job on the line by getting into it with ownership over having Young forced on him, how would it work out with Tebow here? Out of the frying pan and into the fire... (FWIW - I would love to see either Kubiak or Fisher here. Chucky and his being able to go H2H 2 times aa year with Wierd Al would be priceless). Edited December 7, 2010 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteteacher2001 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Thank god I have a bye this week! Whew! Wanna see how this thing all rolls out! DAMN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Stop arguing Cutler and stats. Yeah, he's an immature kid and needs to grow up. He's also got one hell of an arm and wins games - even with just mediocre talent around him. It's going to suck paying 3 coaches in 2011, but I hope Pat ponies up for a proven NFL coach - Cowher or Gruden would be very welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turf Smurf Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I can assure you that MCDaniels decision not to play Tewbow had nothing to do with his firing. Matter of fact, Tewbows future is now in question. The new coach might make Tewbow a career backup QB or a feature "Smth" style player that sees the field maybe once or twice a game. Just plain nonsense. He may not be the starter in 2011, but he will be by 2012. Unless McHoody comes back and trades him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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