McDANIELS FIRED!

[Bronco Billy]

Welcome back, Gary Kubiak?

[Chief]

You could always hire Matt Millen...

[G.K.Trey]

Right, cuz these numbers are mediocre at best for veterans, let alone for 2nd and 3rd year QBs.

 

give me a break.

 

the age of a player has nothing to do with this, you said fantastic and stud, neither apply . Throw as many yds as you like , the TD to Int ratio is what matters more(and wins), and that is not good. I am not a McDaniels guy , really could care less about him being fired, and didn't want to hijack this thread to a "Cutler Blows" kinda thing, but Cutler was not a Stud. People throw that word around alot. Peyton is a stud , Brady is a stud, every average to above average player is not a stud.

[BearBroncos]

Welcome back, Gary Kubiak?

 

I'd take it.... I'm a HUGE Kubiak fan. I think he has talent as a coach (not showing in Houston) but if Bowlen gets a good GM in there, I could see Kubiak doing a great job here in Denver.

 

BTW, yes, BB, you were right. I bow to you....

[Bronco Billy]

BTW, yes, BB, you were right. I bow to you....

 

Pyrrhic victory. FWIW, like I told Opie, I sincerely wish I weren't. I'd have much rather that I were completely wrong and McDaniels took the franchise back to its winning ways. Someone has a mess on their hands to rebuild, as well as figuring out a way to deal with Tebow - which is going to be very tricky for a coach trying to get the franchise in order quickly.

[BearBroncos]

Pyrrhic victory. FWIW, like I told Opie, I sincerely wish I weren't. I'd have much rather that I were completely wrong and McDaniels took the franchise back to its winning ways. Someone has a mess on their hands to rebuild, as well as figuring out a way to deal with Tebow - which is going to be very tricky for a coach trying to get the franchise in order quickly.

 

I'm not sure it will take allot, really.. I think there is an abundance of talent on this team. The O-line is fairly young and should signs that they could be good if not great. The D needs work and if Denver finishes 4-12 or there around they could get some nice defensiv help in the 2011 draft. I think, however, there is some nice talent on this D already and Mike Nolan proved it could be a good defense if managed properly.

 

Fix the defensive whoes and shore up the offense and I think the team could win the division come next year. Orton is a solid player with some good wide receivers. Moreno has proven he can be a solid back if he remains healthy....

[Bronco Billy]

the age of a player has nothing to do with this, you said fantastic and stud, neither apply . Throw as many yds as you like , the TD to Int ratio is what matters more(and wins), and that is not good. I

 

I'm sure glad you weren't this guy's coach:

 

First 5 yrs stats:

 

70 games, 68 started

1168 completions in 2168 throws, 54.1% completions

14,835 yds passing 6.87 ypa

85 passing TDs vs 77 INTs, 1.10 TD/INT ratio

 

How Cutler compares to him so far into his 5th year:

 

64 games, 53 started

1299 completions in 2093 throws, 62.1% completions

15,235 yds passing 7.28 ypa

98 passing TDs vs 73 INTs, 1.34 TD/INT ratio

[G.K.Trey]

I'm sure glad you weren't this guy's coach:

 

First 5 yrs stats:

 

70 games, 68 started

1168 completions in 2168 throws, 54.1% completions

14,835 yds passing 6.87 ypa

85 passing TDs vs 77 INTs, 1.10 TD/INT ratio

 

How Cutler compares to him so far into his 5th year:

 

64 games, 53 started

1299 completions in 2093 throws, 62.1% completions

15,235 yds passing 7.28 ypa

98 passing TDs vs 73 INTs, 1.34 TD/INT ratio

 

 

You are mistaking my point, while Cutler MAY turn into a stud someday, he was far from there already

[Bronco Billy]

the age of a player has nothing to do with this, you said fantastic and stud, neither apply . Throw as many yds as you like , the TD to Int ratio is what matters more(and wins), and that is not good.

 

Here's another guy's first 5 yrs. I'd guess his team is glad you aren't on their staff either:

 

80 games, 80 started

1749 completions in 2817 throws, 62.1% completions

20,618 yds passing 7.32 ypa

138 passing TDs vs 100 INTs, 1.38 TD/INT ratio

 

Remarkably similar to Cutler on a per-game basis, wouldn't you say?

[MTSuper7]

No way. His final year in Denver, only his 3rd as a pro, he passed for 4500 yrds and 25 TDs, which was up from his previous season (first full season as a starter) of 3500 yrds 20 TDs.

 

No way should a new coach drop a stud like that for any reason.

 

Are we talking about a FF stud or an NFL QB stud? Because putting up big numbers does not automatically mean I want the guy on my team. Cutler is the undisputed KING of the red zone INT. He was in Denver. He still is in Chicago.

 

I'm glad McDaniels got fired, but reality is that Cutler hasn't developed into a consistent quarterback yet, and he's been in the league how long? I understand the occasional bad game. But when the media asks the question "are we going to get good Jay or bad Jay today?", that says a lot about where the guy is career-wise. The Bears are 9-3 in spite of Cutler. Heck, they made the SB with Grossman as QB a few years back.

 

Marshall is a knucklehead, and I'm glad he's not in Denver any more either. He is a very talented WR, but when things don't go his way he whines, punts footballs... He even got a 15-yard penalty for throwing the football at Jay Cutler after a play in the Bears-Dolphins' game. I still remember when he tried to pull something out of his jersey after a TD vs. Cleveland a couple years back, and Brandon Stokley rushed over and saved him from himself. Seriously, no amount of coaching can remove the idiot out of players like Marshall.

 

Talent is only part of the equation. So are statistics. What about being a team player?

[MTSuper7]

I'd take it.... I'm a HUGE Kubiak fan. I think he has talent as a coach (not showing in Houston) but if Bowlen gets a good GM in there, I could see Kubiak doing a great job here in Denver.

 

BTW, yes, BB, you were right. I bow to you....

 

I would take it too. I like Kubiak, and I think the offense would be just fine with the pieces in place. The offensive line is above average.

 

We have a lot of work to do on the defensive side. Coaching, drafting, and free agency all need to improve or the defense is going to be a doormat yet again. Even our secondary, once the anchor of the unit, is dissipating. Dawkins is done, and Champ doesn't have much left. It's basically starting at square one on defense.

[Bronco Billy]

You are mistaking my point, while Cutler MAY turn into a stud someday, he was far from there already

 

The earmarks are clearly there. As we can see you you compare his first 5 years to Elway (1st set of numbers) or P Manning (2nd set of numbers), he puts up critical QB stats that exceed anything Elway did (another kid who threw some really bad passes and made bad judgments when he was young because he also relied on his incredibly strong arm and who I think is eerily similar to Cutler, right down to his college career) and matches anything Manning did.

 

The point being - Cutler has that kind of talent. Now he's learning the finer points of the NFL game and that he doesn't have to make a great play every play, he can throw the ball away or take a short sack and come back to fight the next down instead of throwing into tough coverage, and he's reading coverages much better.

 

You can't train up the physical gifts - and those kinds of gifts don't come along very often in the NFL. You can train up the head. Martz is doing that with Cutler right now and he's becoming a much better (and winning) QB. McDaniels pissed Cutler away instead of chosing to train him. There's no justifying throwing away such elite potential, just as there is no excuse for not managing Marshall's unquestionably elite talent and instead throwing him away also.

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

What time was he fired ?? look at the time stamp on this

 

McDaniels: No plans to insert rookie Tebow

Tim Tebow - QB - DEN - Dec. 6 - 2:44 p.m. ET

 

Coach Josh McDaniels indicated Monday that he has no plans to replace Kyle Orton with first-round pick Tim Tebow down the stretch despite the Broncos' 3-9 record.

Asked how he'll treat his quarterback situation going forward, McDaniels replied "Try to win. We haven't even thought about that. ... Good experience is always better than just experience." We'd argue that four starts with a healthy line and mostly healthy receiver corps would constitute "good experience" for Tebow, but Kyle Orton has earned the opportunity to finish out the season. Orton also has a history of fading down the stretch of seasons, and the Broncos have to decide whether to pay him $8.8 million in 2011. After Sunday's 9-for-28 showing, they'll want to make sure he doesn't tank again.

Source: Lindsay Jones on Twitter

[BearBroncos]

What time was he fired ?? look at the time stamp on this

 

McDaniels: No plans to insert rookie Tebow

Tim Tebow - QB - DEN - Dec. 6 - 2:44 p.m. ET

 

Coach Josh McDaniels indicated Monday that he has no plans to replace Kyle Orton with first-round pick Tim Tebow down the stretch despite the Broncos' 3-9 record.

Asked how he'll treat his quarterback situation going forward, McDaniels replied "Try to win. We haven't even thought about that. ... Good experience is always better than just experience." We'd argue that four starts with a healthy line and mostly healthy receiver corps would constitute "good experience" for Tebow, but Kyle Orton has earned the opportunity to finish out the season. Orton also has a history of fading down the stretch of seasons, and the Broncos have to decide whether to pay him $8.8 million in 2011. After Sunday's 9-for-28 showing, they'll want to make sure he doesn't tank again.

Source: Lindsay Jones on Twitter

 

I can assure you that MCDaniels decision not to play Tewbow had nothing to do with his firing. Matter of fact, Tewbows future is now in question. The new coach might make Tewbow a career backup QB or a feature "Smth" style player that sees the field maybe once or twice a game.

[Bronco Billy]

Are we talking about a FF stud or an NFL QB stud? Because putting up big numbers does not automatically mean I want the guy on my team. Cutler is the undisputed KING of the red zone INT. He was in Denver. He still is in Chicago.

 

I'm glad McDaniels got fired, but reality is that Cutler hasn't developed into a consistent quarterback yet, and he's been in the league how long? I understand the occasional bad game. But when the media asks the question "are we going to get good Jay or bad Jay today?", that says a lot about where the guy is career-wise. The Bears are 9-3 in spite of Cutler. Heck, they made the SB with Grossman as QB a few years back.

 

Really? How many INTs has Cutler thrown in the past 5 games? I'll help: 3

 

In fact, throw out his 4 INT game against WAS this year and he has 6 INTs in 10 games. I'd guess a lot of teams would take those kind of results - especially since early in the season Mad Mikey was trying to install his throw-the-ball-all-over-the-field-all-the-time O. Martz has finally given up on that and CHI has gone to a balanced attack. Cutler has been superb since that WAS game: 10 TDs vs 3 INTs, 65.7% completions, 7,75 ypa. Cutler is absolutely a key reason for the Bears' success right now.

 

I just don't understand the Cutler hate from some DEN fans. It's not his fault he wasn't coached up properly while he was here. The guy is a difference-maker. He's on his way to a stellar career and there's going to be a lot of DEN fans looking at his career numbers and wondering what could have been in both passing stats and success by the time his career is over.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Bronco Billy

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

I can assure you that MCDaniels decision not to play Tewbow had nothing to do with his firing. Matter of fact, Tewbows future is now in question. The new coach might make Tewbow a career backup QB or a feature "Smth" style player that sees the field maybe once or twice a game.

 

 

Wasn't implying it had anything to do with the firing just making fun of the Source: Lindsay Jones on Twitter

And how unto date the info is being reported ,,, he had already been fired and it was out on the wire when this was tweeted

[Bronco Billy]

I can assure you that MCDaniels decision not to play Tewbow had nothing to do with his firing. Matter of fact, Tewbows future is now in question. The new coach might make Tewbow a career backup QB or a feature "Smth" style player that sees the field maybe once or twice a game.

 

I'd have to disagree with this - and not from a Tebow development standpoint.

 

It was impossible not to notice all the empty seats at the last home game. In fact, the Denver Post stated that the Broncos - for the first time I can remember - posted "tickets sold" numbers rather than actual attendance at the game.

 

Now with even more anger building as McDaniels' Broncos kept losing, there was a very real chance that there would be 25,000 no shows or more in the last two home games - people want to show their displeasure to the Broncos' management and that's about the only way to do it. Playing Tebow was an opportunity to at least get some people back out to the games - and to promote next year's season tickets sales.

 

Not playing Tebow was a bad decision by McDaniels for his career here - because of the business implications. I'd be willing to bet we'll see some significant Tebow action for the upcoming games as an interim HC gets his marching orders and the Broncos try to avoid a half empty stadium for the last 2 home games, as well as set the table for 2011 season ticket sales (dependent upon how the labor negotiations go).

 

Never, never forget that the NFL is big business first and foremost.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Bronco Billy

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

the age of a player has nothing to do with this, you said fantastic and stud, neither apply . Throw as many yds as you like , the TD to Int ratio is what matters more(and wins), and that is not good. I am not a McDaniels guy , really could care less about him being fired, and didn't want to hijack this thread to a "Cutler Blows" kinda thing, but Cutler was not a Stud. People throw that word around alot. Peyton is a stud , Brady is a stud, every average to above average player is not a stud.

 

The age certainly does matter. In his first year as a starter, he threw for 3500 yrds and 20 TDs. In his 2nd, he surpassed 4500 yrds, a number some HoFers and future HoFers have rarely ever done, and 25 TDs. Your claim that this is average is laughable, and makes you look like a troll. Cutler had nowhere to go but up... and Chicago.

 

Any 1st time head coach (who is supposed to be a QB guru) walking into a team with a young QB putting up numbers like that, along with other tools in place, should salivate at the chance of lowering those INTs and turn that team into a powerhouse winner. Instead, he traded all the assets away and sunk the ship.

[Balzac]

No way. His final year in Denver, only his 3rd as a pro, he passed for 4500 yrds and 25 TDs, which was up from his previous season (first full season as a starter) of 3500 yrds 20 TDs.

 

No way should a new coach drop a stud like that for any reason.

 

how many picks did he throw that season? His yardage was through the roof because he threw the ball 600+ times. To be honest, 25TDs for having thrown 40 times per game isn't all that impressive to me.

 

The reason you get rid of a guy like that? When you can replace him with a dirt-cheap guy like Orton, who has outperformed Cutler in both seasons he's been under center for Denver.

 

People fell in love with Cutler's arm, which I guess is understandable. I just think he was hugely overrated (which has kinda been proven since he left).

[MTSuper7]

Really? How many INTs has Cutler thrown in the past 5 games? I'll help: 3

 

In fact, throw out his 4 INT game against WAS this year and he has 6 INTs in 10 games. I'd guess a lot of teams would take those kind of results - especially since early in the season Mad Mikey was trying to install his throw-the-ball-all-over-the-field-all-the-time O. Martz has finally given up on that and CHI has gone to a balanced attack. Cutler has been superb since that WAS game: 10 TDs vs 3 INTs, 65.7% completions, 7,75 ypa. Cutler is absolutely a key reason for the Bears' success right now.

 

I just don't understand the Cutler hate from some DEN fans. It's not his fault he wasn't coached up properly while he was here. The guy is a difference-maker. He's on his way to a stellar career and there's going to be a lot of DEN fans looking at his career numbers and wondering what could have been in both passing stats and success by the time his career is over.

 

What has changed is that the Bears are commited to the run, and they are winning by running, an efficient passing game, and defense. Same formula that got them to the SB with Rex Grossman as their QB. I'll admit that Cutler has avoided boneheaded red zone INTs lately, but I need to see a longer sample size than 5 games to think those days are behind him.

 

But Cutler's numbers since the WAS game (since you bring it up)? He's averaging 212 yards passing and 2 TDs in those five games. 65.6% completion rate. 3 INTs. Decent numbers, yes? But did you watch the Buffalo game that followed the 4 INT game vs. Washington? You say he has been superb since that WAS game. That might be a stretch. Same with the Miami game. Both teams were terrible on offense in that game, with the only TD a Forte run. So I'll give you the Philly game - he was superb. Good Jay showed up that day. He was meh vs. the Vikes. And everyone looks good vs. the Lions (usually). So i'm not buying that Cutler is the franchise.

 

The Bears host New England this weekend. It'll be interesting to see which Jay shows up. Especially if the Pats get an early lead. We're overdue for a dose of bad Jay. I smell 3 INTs. If I'm wrong, I'll be here Sunday Night to eat crow. The rest of the Bears' schedule isn't any better. After NE, they go to Minny, then get the Jets and then at Green Bay. Talk to me in four weeks about how superb Jay Cutler is... I'll gladly make a sig bet if you care to. Not sure what the bet parameters would be. One thing I guarantee won't happen over the next 4 weeks - Cutler isn't going to maintain a 10:3 TD to INT ratio.

[Balzac]

The age certainly does matter. In his first year as a starter, he threw for 3500 yrds and 20 TDs. In his 2nd, he surpassed 4500 yrds, a number some HoFers and future HoFers have rarely ever done, and 25 TDs. Your claim that this is average is laughable, and makes you look like a troll. Cutler had nowhere to go but up... and Chicago.

 

Any 1st time head coach (who is supposed to be a QB guru) walking into a team with a young QB putting up numbers like that, along with other tools in place, should salivate at the chance of lowering those INTs and turn that team into a powerhouse winner. Instead, he traded all the assets away and sunk the ship.

 

A fun little fact . . . Orton is a whole 5 months older than Cutler.

 

Another fun little fact . . . Orton is on pace to throw for more than 4500 yards in his second year in Denver's pass happy system. Oh - and he's not going to throw 18 picks either (unless he avgs 3 per game for the rest of the season).

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

how many picks did he throw that season? His yardage was through the roof because he threw the ball 600+ times. To be honest, 25TDs for having thrown 40 times per game isn't all that impressive to me.

 

The reason you get rid of a guy like that? When you can replace him with a dirt-cheap guy like Orton, who has outperformed Cutler in both seasons he's been under center for Denver.

 

People fell in love with Cutler's arm, which I guess is understandable. I just think he was hugely overrated (which has kinda been proven since he left).

 

They had no running game, teams KNEW they were passing.. .yet he still jacked them for all that yardage. His INTs were high, but again, he was young and that can be corrected. Especially if the new coach coming in is supposed to be a QB genius.

 

Kyle Orton, last year, through for about 3800, 24 TDs and 12 INTs. Pretty sure that doesnt surpass Cutlers 4500, 25 TD season and barely beats Culters first year as a starter. This year Orton has 4 games left, but needs 100 yrds passing to beat that season too, although his TD to INT ratio is WAY better.

 

Also, I disagree with his performance in Chicago. think Cutler is showing right now that he is a good QB and not overrated at all.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

A fun little fact . . . Orton is a whole 5 months older than Cutler.

 

Another fun little fact . . . Orton is on pace to throw for more than 4500 yards in his second year in Denver's pass happy system. Oh - and he's not going to throw 18 picks either (unless he avgs 3 per game for the rest of the season).

Another fun little fact... Orton is in the league 1 year longer than Cutler.

 

Another fun little fact... Orton was designated a starter in his first season, Cutler wasn't.

 

Another fun little fact... Culter has passed for almost 3000 more career yards than Orton has.

 

Another fun little fact... Culter has passed for almost 25 more career TDs than Orton has.

 

Oh, Another fun little fact... for Orton to finish at that pace, he has to do a lot better than the 117 yrds he just dueced in KC to reach 4500 yrds.

[Balzac]

They had no running game, teams KNEW they were passing.. .yet he still jacked them for all that yardage. His INTs were high, but again, he was young and that can be corrected. Especially if the new coach coming in is supposed to be a QB genius.

 

Kyle Orton, last year, through for about 3800, 24 TDs and 12 INTs. Pretty sure that doesnt surpass Cutlers 4500, 25 TD season and barely beats Culters first year as a starter. This year Orton has 4 games left, but needs 100 yrds passing to beat that season too, although his TD to INT ratio is WAY better.

 

Also, I disagree with his performance in Chicago. think Cutler is showing right now that he is a good QB and not overrated at all.

 

I agree that he's good - I just don't think it was a cardinal sin to get rid of the guy because he's no Brady or Manning. Hell, it's not even clear that he's any better than the guy who replaced him, who I also think is good.

[MTSuper7]

Back to McDaniels' firing... What is the affect on Denver's offense. I'm sure I'm one of many Orton owners who are wondering if the pass-happy, agressive playcalling is going to stop now that McDaniels is gone. Lloyd owners are probably interested as well. Will the playcalling change significantly? It seems like Moreno's stock has to go up with this news. I'm probably going to take a chance with Kitna at home vs. Philly. Much better chance for garbage time production in that game than Orton vs. the Cards.