For the Lawyers

[The Holy Roller]

If a person has an active warrant out for their arrest and he goes to see his attorney, is the attorney obligated to turn his client into the police? I'm wondering because a friend has a son who broke his probation by failing a drug test. The probation officer notified the county's prosecuting attorney who then notified the sheriff's department to put out the warrant. My advice to the dad was to take the son to their attorney and find out what to do. The dad then posed the above question about the attorney having to turn the son in.

 

I don't know. Does an attorney have an obligation if he knows his client is actively wanted?

[Furd]

No.

[Ursa Majoris]

If a person has an active warrant out for their arrest and he goes to see his attorney, is the attorney obligated to turn his client into the police? I'm wondering because a friend has a son who broke his probation by failing a drug test. The probation officer notified the county's prosecuting attorney who then notified the sheriff's department to put out the warrant. My advice to the dad was to take the son to their attorney and find out what to do. The dad then posed the above question about the attorney having to turn the son in.

 

I don't know. Does an attorney have an obligation if he knows his client is actively wanted?

My best guess would be No because it's a privileged relationship but we have plenty of attorneys here who will doubtless provide the definitive answer.

[Furd]

Providing that the attorney learned of the warrant through some means other than being told by his client, the attorney's ethical and legal duites and responsibilites are the same as anyone else's. A person has no duty to report the location of a crminal or a crime.

 

Now if the lawyer learns from his/her client that there is a warrant out for the client's arrest, the lawyer likely has a duty not to tell anyone about it.

[detlef]

Providing that the attorney learned of the warrant through some means other than being told by his client, the attorney's ethical and legal duites and responsibilites are the same as anyone else's. A person has no duty to report the location of a crminal or a crime.

 

Now if the lawyer learns from his/her client that there is a warrant out for the client's arrest, the lawyer likely has a duty not to tell anyone about it.

With regards to the first part. How does this jibe with aiding and abetting a criminal? Isn't that sort of the same thing. Someone on the run comes and stays at your house and you don't turn them in? That would seem pretty dicey.

[Furd]

With regards to the first part. How does this jibe with aiding and abetting a criminal? Isn't that sort of the same thing. Someone on the run comes and stays at your house and you don't turn them in? That would seem pretty dicey.

 

Disclaimer - I'm not a criminal lawyer.

 

You do not have an obligation to report a crime. You do not have the obligation to contact the police if you know the location of a criminal.

 

Aiding and abetting is something different. I believe that it means that you are assisting someone to commit a crime. In your scenario, the crime has been committed. If you know that the guy staying at your house is running from the police, you may be harboring a fugitive (or somesuch) which is likely a crime.

[untateve]

Here's another question--[a hijack]

 

Why do many attorneys advertise as "attorneys at law?"

 

Would an attorney be anything but an 'attorney at law?"

[SEC=UGA]

Here's another question--[a hijack]

 

Why do many attorneys advertise as "attorneys at law?"

 

Would an attorney be anything but an 'attorney at law?"

 

There are other descriptions of attorney:

I'll make it easy on myself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney

[gbpfan1231]

Here's another question--[a hijack]

 

Why do many attorneys advertise as "attorneys at law?"

 

Would an attorney be anything but an 'attorney at law?"

It makes them sound smarter and I bet the first guy that did this probably had to hire an attorney to make sure that it was OK to use that term and then that attorney hired another attorney to write up some contract that no real person could understand saying that it basically means that said person is an attorney and should not be taken as anything but and such as with regard to being and hiring of said attorney (at law- if said attorney so chooses to be labeled as attorney at law and if not then said attorney can and shall be labeled as attorney et al)

 

Signed,

 

fake attorney at large esquire

[yo mama]

With regards to the first part. How does this jibe with aiding and abetting a criminal? Isn't that sort of the same thing. Someone on the run comes and stays at your house and you don't turn them in? That would seem pretty dicey.

- You can't help your client commit a crime.

- You can't help your client cover up a crime.

- Depending on what state we're talking about, the attorney may have the option and/or duty to report their client to the authorities if the attorney reasonably believes the client is about to commit a crime, or in order to prevent serious injury to another.

- absent those situations, an attorney owes a duty of confidentiality to the client and must keep as confidential communications related to the client's requests for legal advice or the attorney providing legal advice.

 

That said, an attorney "should" advise the client to follow the law, which would include turning yourself in for an outstanding warrant. But the client is free to ignore that advice, and the attorney is under no duty to enforce the law. At most (absent the "about to commit a crime" situation) the most an attorney can do is terminate the attorney/client relationship.

Edited December 20, 2010 by yo mama

[The Holy Roller]

- You can't help your client commit a crime.

- You can't help your client cover up a crime.

- Depending on what state we're talking about, the attorney may have the option and/or duty to report their client to the authorities if the attorney reasonably believes the client is about to commit a crime, or in order to prevent serious injury to another.

- absent those situations, an attorney owes a duty of confidentiality to the client and must keep as confidential communications related to the client's requests for legal advice or the attorney providing legal advice.

 

That said, an attorney "should" advise the client to follow the law, which would include turning yourself in for an outstanding warrant. But the client is free to ignore that advice, and the attorney is under no duty to enforce the law. At most (absent the "about to commit a crime" situation) the most an attorney can do is terminate the attorney/client relationship.

 

Thanks all. Would the seriousness of the crime that the warrant is issued for have any bearing? I can understand an attorney giving "advice" for something minor like a probation violation but what if the kid was wanted for a more serious felony?

[untateve]

[another hijack]

 

I've had this question come up at conferences I attend:

 

By Florida statute, I am a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse. I am also often hired to conduct evaluations under attorney-client privilege. This means that no one on this planet can get their hands on my findings, conclusions, or recommendations except for the client and his/her lawyer. A state attorney cannot subpoena my records nor can I be ordered by a judge to release my records/report.

 

What do I do if a client, whom I'm seeing under attorney-client privilege, admits that he has abused his child? Furthermore, what if this client is out on bond and will be returning home to the same home as this child?

 

Ask a typical mental health professional and they assert that by law, I have to report the abuse.

 

Ask a lawyer, and they assert that they would go to the Board of Professional Regulation and go after my license for violating attorney client privilege.

[yo mama]

Thanks all. Would the seriousness of the crime that the warrant is issued for have any bearing? I can understand an attorney giving "advice" for something minor like a probation violation but what if the kid was wanted for a more serious felony?

Probably not, assuming we're only talking about past conduct (not a future, contemplated crime). The attorney should advise what the consequences of the crime might include, and advise the client that the law (likely) requires that he turn himself in. That is NOT to say that the lawyer should *recommend* that the client turn himself it - merely that the client should be advised of: (1) what the law requires; and (2) the potential legal consequences of doing so/not doing so.

 

Then again, there could always be some Patriot Act-type statute that turns traditional notions of legal ethics and criminal law on its head.

 

If I was the parent, I would contact my own criminal defense attorney (thereby creating a confidential attorney/client relationship) and ask how much I can do to help my kid without breaking the law myself. In connection with that discussion, I'd ask about what advice I could give my kid about whether he can/should talk to his own attorney, and what risks (if any) the kid might run if he did so.

[Ursa Majoris]

[another hijack]

 

I've had this question come up at conferences I attend:

 

By Florida statute, I am a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse. I am also often hired to conduct evaluations under attorney-client privilege. This means that no one on this planet can get their hands on my findings, conclusions, or recommendations except for the client and his/her lawyer. A state attorney cannot subpoena my records nor can I be ordered by a judge to release my records/report.

 

What do I do if a client, whom I'm seeing under attorney-client privilege, admits that he has abused his child? Furthermore, what if this client is out on bond and will be returning home to the same home as this child?

 

Ask a typical mental health professional and they assert that by law, I have to report the abuse.

 

Ask a lawyer, and they assert that they would go to the Board of Professional Regulation and go after my license for violating attorney client privilege.

Seems to be an insoluble problem. Surely there needs to be some ruling made on such a conflict?

[Furd]

[another hijack]

 

I've had this question come up at conferences I attend:

 

By Florida statute, I am a mandated reporter of suspected child abuse. I am also often hired to conduct evaluations under attorney-client privilege. This means that no one on this planet can get their hands on my findings, conclusions, or recommendations except for the client and his/her lawyer. A state attorney cannot subpoena my records nor can I be ordered by a judge to release my records/report.

 

What do I do if a client, whom I'm seeing under attorney-client privilege, admits that he has abused his child? Furthermore, what if this client is out on bond and will be returning home to the same home as this child?

 

Ask a typical mental health professional and they assert that by law, I have to report the abuse.

 

Ask a lawyer, and they assert that they would go to the Board of Professional Regulation and go after my license for violating attorney client privilege.

 

Since you are not an attorney, the attorney-client privilege does not apply to you. Perhaps a specific Florida statute is applicable to the situation??????

 

In Michigan, if you are evaluating someone at the request of an attorney for legal reasons, at least in the civil arena, you are probably not establishing a psychologist-patient relationship of any type and no privilege applies.

 

My advice is to contact a lawyer that specializes in health care for an independent opinion.

[cliaz]

[another hijack]

 

Has anyone ever farted hard enough to make your back crack?

[untateve]

Since you are not an attorney, the attorney-client privilege does not apply to you. Perhaps a specific Florida statute is applicable to the situation??????

 

In Michigan, if you are evaluating someone at the request of an attorney for legal reasons, at least in the civil arena, you are probably not establishing a psychologist-patient relationship of any type and no privilege applies.

 

My advice is to contact a lawyer that specializes in health care for an independent opinion.

 

In criminal cases, which is a good deal of my practice, defense attorneys regularly hire me to conduct an evaluation under attorney-client privilege. In fact, many have judges sign court orders appointing me under attorney-client privilege. I've spoken to attorneys and they typically provide the answer I cited above.

 

Agree with family law (civil cases). Those are almost never conducted under attorney client privilege and thus this does not apply.

[yo mama]

Since you are not an attorney, the attorney-client privilege does not apply to you. Perhaps a specific Florida statute is applicable to the situation??????

It might, if there is a Kovel-type agreement in place. That is pretty common in the tax field, where an attorney hires a non-attorney (CPA, appraiser, etc) to assist the attorney in providing legal advice to their client. In that situation, the non-attorney advisor gets brought under the umbrella of the attorney's privilege because he or she is acting as an agent of the attorney and assists the attorney in rendering legal advice. Though, the privilege evaporates as soon as the non-attorney adviser becomes an expert witness or assumes some other role whereby their opinions and conclusions will be made public.

Edited December 21, 2010 by yo mama

[Furd]

In criminal cases, which is a good deal of my practice, defense attorneys regularly hire me to conduct an evaluation under attorney-client privilege. In fact, many have judges sign court orders appointing me under attorney-client privilege. I've spoken to attorneys and they typically provide the answer I cited above.

 

Is this to determine competency or sanity?

[untateve]

Is this to determine competency or sanity?

 

Typically. But there are other times that attorneys, particularly private vs public defenders, will hire me to conduct evaluations to assess for mental health issues that may be used to demonstrate mitigating circumstances (in Florida, mental health disorders can (not shall) be considered as a mitigating circumstance.

 

I also do sex offender evaluations under attorney-client privilege. It is extremely rare that these results ever get past the attorney because they are almost always problematic for the attorney's legal case. On occasion, depending on the case, I've been able to testify that the client could likely be safely maintained in the community on sex offender probation (which is pretty stringent here in Florida).

 

I also had one attorney hire me to conduct a Parental Capacity Evaluation under attorney-client privilege. After I was done and called him with my findings (which in this case were positive), he told me that he primarily hired me because he didn't want the Dept. of Children and Families to be able to use me for the evaluation.

[Furd]

I looked briefly at the Forida Code of Criminal Procedure. It provides at 3.210(d)(1) for limited use of information gathered by an expert in determining a defendant's competency:

 

The information contained in any motion by the defendant for determination of competency to proceed or in any report of experts filed under this rule insofar as the report relates solely to the issues of competency to proceed and commitment, and any information elicited during a hearing on competency to proceed or commit-ment held pursuant to this rule, shall be used only in determining the mental competency to proceed or the commitment or other treatment of the defendant . . .

 

But I'm not sure how that rule would govern your conduct, if at all.

 

I suspect that there are other statutes or rules that preclude you from doing certain things with information that you obtain, opinions that you form, etc. as an expert. One could argue that if a rule/statute says that you shall "only" do X with something, then you are precluded from doing anything else with it, such as complying with mandatory state reporting laws.

 

The things is, and nobody ever accused me of being particularly bright, is that I don't see how the attorney-client privilege applies to you. Maybe a psychiatrist/psychologist/psychotherapist - patient/client relationship. Or maybe some type of privilege/protection imparted by state law or court order.

 

I don't know. I gotta go home and root for some stiff named Johnny Knox.

[untateve]

I just grabbed a court order appointing me from a file:

 

Ordered and adjudged that untateve is hereby appointed to confidentially examine the defendant in order to assist the counsel in the preparation of the defense. The expert shall report only to the attorney for the defendant and matters related to the expert shall be deemed to fall under the lawyer-client privilege.

[Big John]

I just grabbed a court order appointing me from a file:

Your niece is now giving court orders?

[Furd]

It might, if there is a Kovel-type agreement in place. That is pretty common in the tax field, where an attorney hires a non-attorney (CPA, appraiser, etc) to assist the attorney in providing legal advice to their client. In that situation, the non-attorney advisor gets brought under the umbrella of the attorney's privilege because he or she is acting as an agent of the attorney and assists the attorney in rendering legal advice. Though, the privilege evaporates as soon as the non-attorney adviser becomes an expert witness or assumes some other role whereby their opinions and conclusions will be made public.

 

Good point.

[untateve]

Good point.

 

Once I provide expert testimony, my record becomes open to subpoena and the attorney-client privilege goes bye-bye.