polksalet Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 How much and what kind for my new metal house? It comes with 6" rolls in the walls. Is that enough? Should I stick another few inches in there? I plan to do the ceiling with cellulose but how much? Do I REALLY need a radiant barrier up top? I never knew how much I didn't know about insulation. Tell me what i don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 How much and what kind for my new metal house? It comes with 6" rolls in the walls. Is that enough? Should I stick another few inches in there? I plan to do the ceiling with cellulose but how much? Do I REALLY need a radiant barrier up top? I never knew how much I didn't know about insulation. Tell me what i don't know. Can you substitute spray foam for the rolled up kind? It may cost a little extra but would be worth it in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dug Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Can you substitute spray foam for the rolled up kind? It may cost a little extra but would be worth it in the long run. Spray foam will get you a higher R value for the thickness and also act as an air barrier- to stop infiltration. Drafts are the biggest cause for loss of temp in houses. What type of house is a "metal house"? is the framing metal or just the siding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 STOP. Don't do anything til I can get to my computer to respond. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Spray foam will get you a higher R value for the thickness and also act as an air barrier- to stop infiltration. Drafts are the biggest cause for loss of temp in houses. What type of house is a "metal house"? is the framing metal or just the siding? The framing is metal as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 This is the next thing I need to learn about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If you're putting a metal roof on the building you are going to need some sort of vapor barrier as metal roofs sweat a good bit. Vinyl backed insulation between the roofing sheets and the trusses will solve this problem, or they make a product, it is basically like bubble wrap, that you put between the trusses and roof deck that will work as well. If you are putting the metal roof sheets over an OSB/Plywood backer that is running across the trusses, this will not be necessary. I don't fully understand why they would be putting 6" insulation in the walls, unless they are framing the walls with 6" studs (you should be fine with 4" insulation, but if they are using 6" studs the 4" insulation would have a hard time staying put.) I am curious as to why they would use 6" studs for the framing. I'm assuming that they are going to frame it at 16" OC, due to it being a residential application, and unless they are using 22 gauge or higher framing, 6" studs seem like overkill (unless you are picking up the full load of the trusses on the exterior walls and the total span is in the neighborhood of 40'.) I would assume that in a residential type application you would have load bearing walls at other points in the building. In the walls paper backed insulation, or even un-backed, should be fine. If you wanted a little bit extra protection you could go to vinyl backed, the price different isn't that great. Are they putting up OSB on the exterior before sheeting the building (I'm not sure what they do in a residential application.) I know that metal sided buildings can be drafty, it is the nature of the beast, so if they aren't I might put some sort of wrap around the exterior. Also, The slab design should be different than normal residential if they are putting metal siding on the building. I would advise a 1/2" weather ledge/sheeting notch all the way around the outside of the slab ( basically this notch will be 1/2" below the finished grade of your slab and about 1/2 wide, this keeps water from getting on to the slab. They should use a bottom trim that is L shaped with a turn down on the front side to allow water to shed off of the panel and keep it from running under the siding.) If you have any questions during construction, let me know, I'll tell you (for the most part) if they're doing it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 If you're putting a metal roof on the building you are going to need some sort of vapor barrier as metal roofs sweat a good bit. Vinyl backed insulation between the roofing sheets and the trusses will solve this problem, or they make a product, it is basically like bubble wrap, that you put between the trusses and roof deck that will work as well. If you are putting the metal roof sheets over an OSB/Plywood backer that is running across the trusses, this will not be necessary. I don't fully understand why they would be putting 6" insulation in the walls, unless they are framing the walls with 6" studs (you should be fine with 4" insulation, but if they are using 6" studs the 4" insulation would have a hard time staying put.) I am curious as to why they would use 6" studs for the framing. I'm assuming that they are going to frame it at 16" OC, due to it being a residential application, and unless they are using 22 gauge or higher framing, 6" studs seem like overkill (unless you are picking up the full load of the trusses on the exterior walls and the total span is in the neighborhood of 40'.) I would assume that in a residential type application you would have load bearing walls at other points in the building. In the walls paper backed insulation, or even un-backed, should be fine. If you wanted a little bit extra protection you could go to vinyl backed, the price different isn't that great. Are they putting up OSB on the exterior before sheeting the building (I'm not sure what they do in a residential application.) I know that metal sided buildings can be drafty, it is the nature of the beast, so if they aren't I might put some sort of wrap around the exterior. Also, The slab design should be different than normal residential if they are putting metal siding on the building. I would advise a 1/2" weather ledge/sheeting notch all the way around the outside of the slab ( basically this notch will be 1/2" below the finished grade of your slab and about 1/2 wide, this keeps water from getting on to the slab. They should use a bottom trim that is L shaped with a turn down on the front side to allow water to shed off of the panel and keep it from running under the siding.) If you have any questions during construction, let me know, I'll tell you (for the most part) if they're doing it correctly. Thanks, that's a lot of info and questions I can't answer. I'm actually having a hard time finding a contractor. One is supposed to call me today or tomorrow. I hope he calls as I have a million questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Thanks, that's a lot of info and questions I can't answer. I'm actually having a hard time finding a contractor. One is supposed to call me today or tomorrow. I hope he calls as I have a million questions. You probably will have a problem finding a contractor to do the work. Have you had the building designed yet? You may want to try and GC this project yourself, I'm pretty certain that as the owner, and it being a residential building, that you can pull the permits. You will have to hire out the subs yourself (electrical, plumbing, concrete, steel builder.) I'll see if I can't dig up any guys that might do this work in southern Arkie. Also, the building supplier (steel company) should have a list of erectors that you can call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If you're putting a metal roof on the building you are going to need some sort of vapor barrier as metal roofs sweat a good bit. Vinyl backed insulation between the roofing sheets and the trusses will solve this problem, or they make a product, it is basically like bubble wrap, that you put between the trusses and roof deck that will work as well. If you are putting the metal roof sheets over an OSB/Plywood backer that is running across the trusses, this will not be necessary. I don't fully understand why they would be putting 6" insulation in the walls, unless they are framing the walls with 6" studs (you should be fine with 4" insulation, but if they are using 6" studs the 4" insulation would have a hard time staying put.) I am curious as to why they would use 6" studs for the framing. I'm assuming that they are going to frame it at 16" OC, due to it being a residential application, and unless they are using 22 gauge or higher framing, 6" studs seem like overkill (unless you are picking up the full load of the trusses on the exterior walls and the total span is in the neighborhood of 40'.) I would assume that in a residential type application you would have load bearing walls at other points in the building. In the walls paper backed insulation, or even un-backed, should be fine. If you wanted a little bit extra protection you could go to vinyl backed, the price different isn't that great. Are they putting up OSB on the exterior before sheeting the building (I'm not sure what they do in a residential application.) I know that metal sided buildings can be drafty, it is the nature of the beast, so if they aren't I might put some sort of wrap around the exterior. Also, The slab design should be different than normal residential if they are putting metal siding on the building. I would advise a 1/2" weather ledge/sheeting notch all the way around the outside of the slab ( basically this notch will be 1/2" below the finished grade of your slab and about 1/2 wide, this keeps water from getting on to the slab. They should use a bottom trim that is L shaped with a turn down on the front side to allow water to shed off of the panel and keep it from running under the siding.) If you have any questions during construction, let me know, I'll tell you (for the most part) if they're doing it correctly. EPA mandates that Polks home has a minimum of 6" insulation on exterior walls and 18" on interior bathrooms, if a bath wall is a common exterior wall then a bump out is required to acomadate the required 18" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If it were me I'd go with 4" vinyl backed on the metal building portion. I'd then spray the living portion with a spray insulation like Demilec. You can get by with the 4" on the metal building, except at the living space. If you are going to use it like I think you are, then you will still want to use something good on the living area. That is the reason I'd go with the Demilec. You could get by with 6" vinyl backed at the exterior wall of the living space, and 6" unbacked in all the other walls of the living space, and 12" of insulation between the ceiling and what I'm guessing you are going to use as a mezzanine. Still, if it were me, I'd spray the entire living area with Demilec. It will cut down on drafts, and places for critters to live. If you get a mouse or squirrel in the wall of your living area and its starts crapping and pissing in your insulation, it is going to stink to high heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 How much and what kind for my new metal house? are you certain the big bad wolf can't blow that down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If it were me I'd go with 4" vinyl backed on the metal building portion. I'd then spray the living portion with a spray insulation like Demilec. You can get by with the 4" on the metal building, except at the living space. If you are going to use it like I think you are, then you will still want to use something good on the living area. That is the reason I'd go with the Demilec. You could get by with 6" vinyl backed at the exterior wall of the living space, and 6" unbacked in all the other walls of the living space, and 12" of insulation between the ceiling and what I'm guessing you are going to use as a mezzanine. Still, if it were me, I'd spray the entire living area with Demilec. It will cut down on drafts, and places for critters to live. If you get a mouse or squirrel in the wall of your living area and its starts crapping and pissing in your insulation, it is going to stink to high heaven. THis does, depending on the type of roofing, bring up the question of appropriate closures for the eave of the roof. With a PBR or agri-panel you will want to make sure that they put the proper closure in there so that birds and other critters don't get to the inside of yer dwelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) THis does, depending on the type of roofing, bring up the question of appropriate closures for the eave of the roof. With a PBR or agri-panel you will want to make sure that they put the proper closure in there so that birds and other critters don't get to the inside of yer dwelling. How much should it cost to have the thing erected? Local guy quoted me 14 per sq ft edit to say he called back and said it was slab included in price Edited April 4, 2011 by polksalet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 SEC, you got anyone within driving distance of Texarkana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 SEC, you got anyone within driving distance of Texarkana? Not even close, brother. If I did, I 'd send 'em on over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 How about the 14 for erection and slab? How is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 How much should it cost to have the thing erected? Local guy quoted me 14 per sq ft edit to say he called back and said it was slab included in price I talked with one of my PM's, he said if the guy is willing to "get the house dried in for that, jump all over it." What he means if the guys is going to erect the steel, put up the trusses, put on the roof and siding it is a good deal. I'm assuming that the interior insulation and sheet rock are not included in this. If he throws that in, it sounds like an excellent deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 I talked with one of my PM's, he said if the guy is willing to "get the house dried in for that, jump all over it." What he means if the guys is going to erect the steel, put up the trusses, put on the roof and siding it is a good deal. I'm assuming that the interior insulation and sheet rock are not included in this. If he throws that in, it sounds like an excellent deal. he wants $.50 per sq ft to put in the standard 3" insulation and $1 to put in the 6" tho perchy has talked me into the spray in insulation. How much does the spray in stuff cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 How about the 14 for erection and slab? How is that? Are you going to live here? If so, and it's on a slab, you may think about radiant floor heating. And if you're not going to go that route right now, at least run the tube under the slab before you pour it to give you future options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Are you going to live here? If so, and it's on a slab, you may think about radiant floor heating. And if you're not going to go that route right now, at least run the tube under the slab before you pour it to give you future options. yeah I plan on living there long term. How much does the radiant floor heating cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 he wants $.50 per sq ft to put in the standard 3" insulation and $1 to put in the 6" tho perchy has talked me into the spray in insulation. How much does the spray in stuff cost? Little high. IMO. I'd ask him why it's harder to put in 6" vs. 3". (don't) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 This new variable just popped up. I can get a wood framed version for about half of what the metal frame costs. It runs about 10 bucks per square foot for the whole thing in the dry. That'll cost me about 27k for a 60x40x12. http://www.shopsbuilt.com/index.php?option...&Itemid=176 thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 This new variable just popped up. I can get a wood framed version for about half of what the metal frame costs. It runs about 10 bucks per square foot for the whole thing in the dry. That'll cost me about 27k for a 60x40x12. http://www.shopsbuilt.com/index.php?option...&Itemid=176 thoughts? I was curious why you were building it out of steel... Especially considering that they are going to frame it in the same manner that they would a stick built house. Really the only advantage of building from steel is that you can get larger spans if you go with a higher gauge and that can save you some money. For instance, you could frame your wall at 5' 0r 3' OC if using a 2x4x16GA cee column, depending on spans, roof loads and wher eyou have other load bearing walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 I was curious why you were building it out of steel... Especially considering that they are going to frame it in the same manner that they would a stick built house. Really the only advantage of building from steel is that you can get larger spans if you go with a higher gauge and that can save you some money. For instance, you could frame your wall at 5' 0r 3' OC if using a 2x4x16GA cee column, depending on spans, roof loads and wher eyou have other load bearing walls. I really like the idea of never having to worry about a termite or fire. Plus I also thought the all steel building wouldn't be much more than the wood framed model. What are your thoughts on the type of building I'm looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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