bushwacked Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ya know what really pisses me off... The republicans try to get the one week extension of troops pay pushed through and just to be a bunch of grandstanding pricks they attach that BS rider onto the bill about not allowing tax dollars to go to abortion clinics in DC.... Now they are trying to paint anyone who didn't vote for this bill as being against the troops, which is an absolute disservice to the troops. Thes jack holes, the republicans, are now playing games with the financial lives of those that are putting their literal lives on the line and I find this to be inexcusably re-fu(king-diculous. The republicans just showed that they could give a sh!t less about the well being of our troops by putting in this asinine rider in this bill. I hope the get roundly criticized for it and have to walk away from the press conferences hanging their heads in shame that they tried to play political games with troop funding. Once again, the right has shown that the christian conservative movements whims override any other policy initiative that comes up. There is no place in todays politics, with the issues that we are facing, to try and inject such frivolity into a very real issues. I sincerely hope that whoever's idea it was to attach that rider to the troop funding extension is drummed out of office in the next election cycle and that thousands of bees descend upon their genitals. end thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Then I'm not misreading you at all and my comparison is spot on. Just lopping a set percentage off the top without regard to what it's doing seems rather simplistic. Also, the fact that you keep bringing up "state funded abortions" makes it really hard to take anything you say seriously. Not sure if you knew this, but Planned Parenthood does things besides give abortions, and certainly avoids far more unwanted pregnancies than the church does. This avoids the need for abortions as well as children being born into a welfare state. There's always the battle-cry about pushing off the debt into the next generations. Well, what about saving $5 today so that the next generation is saddled with another welfare recipient that costs them far more? Regardless of where one stands on the issue of abortion, trying deny groups like Planned Parenthood any money at all simply because they do preform what is currently a legal operation in this country is reckless and fiscally stupid. Because, they're a whole cheaper to pay for than the consequences of getting rid of them would. I'm sorry I don't see funding planned parenthood as a necessity, or set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. I do see providing for our defense as something that is a necessity, and set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. Having said that I'm still for cutting military spending quite significantly buy you and apparently every other liberal idiot has major issues with cutting funding to something our government shouldn't be funding in the first place. You don't take me seriously that's fine, I'm sure I have the same opinion of you as you have of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm sorry I don't see funding planned parenthood as a necessity, or set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. I do see providing for our defense as something that is a necessity, and set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. Having said that I'm still for cutting military spending quite significantly buy you and apparently every other liberal idiot has major issues with cutting funding to something our government shouldn't be funding in the first place. You don't take me seriously that's fine, I'm sure I have the same opinion of you as you have of me. The fact that you don't like Planned Parenthood is not why I don't take you seriously. The fact that you keep saying "state funded abortions", which aren't actually happening, is why I do. As for the need for Planned Parenthood. You're right, we should just have kids sign up for abstinence-only pacts or something like that. That'll stop unwanted spawn that society can't afford from popping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The fact that you don't like Planned Parenthood is not why I don't take you seriously. The fact that you keep saying "state funded abortions", which aren't actually happening, is why I do. As for the need for Planned Parenthood. You're right, we should just have kids sign up for abstinence-only pacts or something like that. That'll stop unwanted spawn that society can't afford from popping out. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like or dislike plan parenthood. It has to do with the fact that we are currently broke, and funding planned parenthood is not an essential service that the government is required to provide. With regard to it not being state funded abortions, I'm well aware that they keep separate accounts, and the government money is not used on the abortions. However if you think the government funding other portions of planned parenthood doesn't allow them to use funds on abortions that they would otherwise be using on operations the government is funding you are very naive. So while the government is not directly funding abortions, in a sense they are making funding for abortions available. Still the abortion issue aside, planned parenthood is not an essential government service. Let's get rid of ALL subsidies. I'm sure there are some organizations that get subsides that I like too, but guess what if I feel like it, I can donate my money of my own free will to them, rather than have the government do it for me, and lose some of it in the bureaucracy along the way. To me whether or not we fund planned parenthood is not about the abortion issue, it is about it not being a proper function of government to give them money. AGAIN, GET RID OF ALL SUBSIDIES, GRANTS ETC.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Rand Paul is live on TV admitting the difference in dollars currently being negotiated wouldn't impact the deficit or debt in any real way. The recent posts in this thread are indicative of what the present hang up is. I certainly hope, at the end of the day, the repubs don't hold a substantial segment of our country and soldiers hostage to push through a socially conservative agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 It has nothing to do with whether or not I like or dislike plan parenthood. It has to do with the fact that we are currently broke, and funding planned parenthood is not an essential service that the government is required to provide. With regard to it not being state funded abortions, I'm well aware that they keep separate accounts, and the government money is not used on the abortions. However if you think the government funding other portions of planned parenthood doesn't allow them to use funds on abortions that they would otherwise be using on operations the government is funding you are very naive. So while the government is not directly funding abortions, in a sense they are making funding for abortions available. Still the abortion issue aside, planned parenthood is not an essential government service. Let's get rid of ALL subsidies. I'm sure there are some organizations that get subsides that I like too, but guess what if I feel like it, I can donate my money of my own free will to them, rather than have the government do it for me, and lose some of it in the bureaucracy along the way. To me whether or not we fund planned parenthood is not about the abortion issue, it is about it not being a proper function of government to give them money. AGAIN, GET RID OF ALL SUBSIDIES, GRANTS ETC.... So am I to understand that you want to cut all sorts of government aid to the poor? Oh wait, I thought you said you wanted people to work for their welfare. So, you're not ready to totally eliminate welfare. Do I understand that correctly? Now, if there was was a way to cut down on the number of people who were going to get welfare that cost a fraction of what it costs to keep someone on welfare, would you do it? I mean, you seem like a frugal sort, right? OK, well there is. It's called Planned Parenthood. See, it's their job to help avoid unwanted pregnancies, which ultimately lead to less unwanted babies that people can't afford or are in no position to raise, which ultimately leads to less people on welfare. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Karl Rove warns repubs this could backfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Karl Rove warns repubs this could backfire When KARL ROVE tells the Republicans that this might not be the best idea . . . then you KNOW it is fked up . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 So am I to understand that you want to cut all sorts of government aid to the poor? Oh wait, I thought you said you wanted people to work for their welfare. So, you're not ready to totally eliminate welfare. Do I understand that correctly? Now, if there was was a way to cut down on the number of people who were going to get welfare that cost a fraction of what it costs to keep someone on welfare, would you do it? I mean, you seem like a frugal sort, right? OK, well there is. It's called Planned Parenthood. See, it's their job to help avoid unwanted pregnancies, which ultimately lead to less unwanted babies that people can't afford or are in no position to raise, which ultimately leads to less people on welfare. Yay! There is a difference between welfare and what I'm proposing, which you could call workfare. You make everyone that is able work for their checks, unless they are physically or mentally incapable of doing so. I don't see how that ties into planned parenthood. I also don't see how you can assume that all unplanned pregnancy result in a life that would require welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) Thank you, Federal Government, for living down to the lowered expectations I had for you. You delivered everything I expected, and less. Edited April 8, 2011 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Rand Paul is live on TV admitting the difference in dollars currently being negotiated wouldn't impact the deficit or debt in any real way. The recent posts in this thread are indicative of what the present hang up is. I certainly hope, at the end of the day, the repubs don't hold a substantial segment of our country and soldiers hostage to push through a socially conservative agenda. I agree that it's stupid for the republicans to hunker down on something that doesn't ultimately add or subtract from the deficit in any meaningful way. but let's act like this is all them. it takes two to tango. you have to have one party willing to risk a shutdown to defund planned parenthood, AND another party willing to risk a shutdown to DEFEND planned parenthood. alternatively, the democrats could agree to a few billion more in spending cuts. you can only have a shutdown on an inane point if BOTH parties decide that inane point is worth digging their heels in over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm sorry I don't see funding planned parenthood as a necessity, or set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. I do see providing for our defense as something that is a necessity, and set out as something the government should do in our founding documents. More references to the precious "founding documents", and what our glorious founders wanted, etc...gimme a break. The good folks that wrote those docs also kept slaves, didn't allow women to vote, participated in a Civil War, raped and pillaged the natives of this land....they were written by a bunch of goons that we'd call extremists if they were alive today. The founding documents need to be shredded, laced with LSD, and smoked by the right-wing nutjobs. That's about as much use as they are in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 More references to the precious "founding documents", and what our glorious founders wanted, etc...gimme a break. The good folks that wrote those docs also kept slaves, didn't allow women to vote, participated in a Civil War, raped and pillaged the natives of this land....they were written by a bunch of goons that we'd call extremists if they were alive today. The founding documents need to be shredded, laced with LSD, and smoked by the right-wing nutjobs. That's about as much use as they are in 2011. Well I used to think you were an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Well I used to think you were an idiot. Ah, the old name-calling....nicely played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathpig Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 More references to the precious "founding documents", and what our glorious founders wanted, etc...gimme a break. The good folks that wrote those docs also kept slaves, didn't allow women to vote, participated in a Civil War, raped and pillaged the natives of this land....they were written by a bunch of goons that we'd call extremists if they were alive today. The founding documents need to be shredded, laced with LSD, and smoked by the right-wing nutjobs. That's about as much use as they are in 2011. Two questions: 1) Could you enlighten the masses as to which politicians weren't scum since the founding of the country so we know which laws are the ones we should keep? 2) Could you perhaps rephrase this argument so that it isn't a classical Ad Hominem attack? Because being a slaving, misogynistic, murdering rapist doesn't, by default, mean you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 well, apparently the dildo-f*cks finally figured something out :sigh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 well, apparently the dildo-f*cks finally figured something out :sigh: About time. It's only good through next Thursday, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I got 5 ideas that will turn this economy around, and fix this country. sure there are even more that needs to be done, but these 5 will put us on the right track. 1. Get Lobbyist out of Washington. Make them illegal like prostitution. Convictions are felonies for first offense. 2. Eliminate riders on bills completely. No more free anything, check and balance everywhere. If Washington shuts down, Congress and the Prez are hit 3 months before anyone else. You think they will get something done then. Hell yea they would. 3. Stop all new citizenship, we cant pay for the people we have here now. If you are illegal and you give birth to a child here, they are not citizens either, we deport you and your child back to where you came from. If you get caught here illegally, we deport you imediately and we seize your belongings and sell them at govt auctions to help pay for more border patrol. You think if illegals knew they would lose everything they had here, their vehicles clothes, and anything else, and get deported immediately, they would still be here. We also need to reward whistle blowers here as well, and punish people who hire them, for anything. and I mean anything. If you pay an illegal to mow your grass, you are fined $1000 each offense. They must have papers before you hire them. And no more DL to illegals either. If you are caught here a 2nd time, we put you on the chain gang for 3 years, and instead of pounding rocks, you use your skills here for free. You mow yards for a living, illegally. Now you will be in prision each night and we will send you to mow yards and the prision system collects the money, to actually pay for your time in our corrections facilities, instead of tax payers picking up the bill. we catch you a 3rd time, its 10 years or until we feel you are no longer useful then we deport you immediately. This way we have the funds to build more prisions, hell we will use you for free labor for that too. 4. End corporation outsourcing. Make the cost of outsourcing so high, that if you lay off a person in the US for a job somewhere outside the border, not only do you pay a full 2 years salary for them, you are responsible to make unemployment checks to them after those 2 years, or you hire them back for the same salary they left at. No more Cobra, no more unemployment from the govt, the private sector pays this for outsourcing, if you have outsourced a single job in the last 24 months. 5. Actually punish those responsible for corporate crimes. Not just the Madoffs of the world, but everyone caught doing anything like what we had with the housing industry, banking industry, and the accounting tricks of the telecoms. Its a joke how many people lost their savings to these crooks and many of them didnt lose anything. First offense are 20 years to life and we seize your assets and send those funds to the victims. Its time to have a backbone again in this country. We did the right thing with Plaxico, he broke the law, he did the time. We need to do this for everyone, including govt and CEO's if they are caught breaking the law. And when we seize their assets, we use that to pay for their time. Its time to get serious about fixing this country, and not leave a mess for our kids and grand kids. If you have enough money, will you run for President? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I like how boner dangled that planned parenthood thing out there, then gave it up (sorta) by using it to extract another 15-20 billion in cuts. well played, boner. well played. the funniest thing to me is obama and reid going on TV talking about what a historic occasion it is, implementing all of these spending cuts. uhh, you guys fought every single one of them tooth and nail. your starting position in these negotiations was zero cuts. but hey, good for you guys getting those historic spending cuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ah, the old name-calling....nicely played. Really? So its not just an act on these boards....you're a dick in real life....cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) There is a difference between welfare and what I'm proposing, which you could call workfare. You make everyone that is able work for their checks, unless they are physically or mentally incapable of doing so. I don't see how that ties into planned parenthood. I also don't see how you can assume that all unplanned pregnancy result in a life that would require welfare. OK, for starters, call it welfare, call it workfare. Sure, make them pick up trash. Thing is, if they start doing anything actually worth what we're paying them, they'll displace part of the workforce and perpetuate the cycle. So, the best thing that we can really hope for is some sort of make-work deal that just makes people get off their ass and makes us feel better about supporting them. Regardless, it's something that we'd be better off if there were less people participating in it. Agreed? I mean, so you round up all the welfare moms and their kids and drive them all out to the parks to pick up trash. Great, what do they do tomorrow? We've got to pay them then as well. Don't get me wrong, I think it beats the hell out of just handing out money but it's only marginally better. It's not so good that we actually want more people to be in the program. And where did I say that all unwanted pregnancies led to welfare recipients? Surely, however, it is not a bold assumption that unwanted pregnancies are more likely than planned and wanted children to end up in situations where there's a single mother who can't afford to raise her kids. Which means there's a higher likelihood of that kid being on welfare for at least until he/she is old enough to support themselves. And, further, that there's a better than normal chance of that kid ending up on welfare themselves when they're an adult and perpetuating the cycle. This doesn't even take into account the number of young women who, because of an early, unwanted pregnancy are, themselves, limited in their ability to succeed. Take two 16 year old HS girls. One gets knocked up, the other doesn't. Everything else being equal, let's take a bet on who's more likely to end up on welfare. Fortunately, there's absolutely no misinformation out there on contraception and avoiding pregnancy, so maybe I'm just getting worked up for nothing. So, despite the fact that our founding fathers did not see the need for Planned Parenthood back in the 18th century, the fact remains that it is fiscal idiocy to ignore it's importance now. Again, helping people, especially those who are already on shaky economic standing, avoid unwanted pregnancies saves our society tons of money in the long run compared to what the program itself costs. What you're suggesting is the epitome of penny wise and pound foolish. Face it, it's your stance as a conservative Christian that makes you oppose Planned Parenthood and blind to any way that they can actually provide a value to society at large. It's because they, among many other services, perform a procedure that you are morally opposed to. But again, at least right now, that procedure is completely legal. So, this is not at all about balancing the budget, this is about imposing your moral beliefs. And that's fine (well, not really) but whatever. Just don't pretend for a second that there's any shred of fiscal logic behind the argument. I mean, how 'bout we just stop spending on everything, regardless of what not doing so will ultimately cost us? I mean, what faster way to balance the budget. Stop all government spending and keep taxing until the debt is gone. Then stop that as well. No schools, no roads, no military, no fire dept, no police. In fact, I'm going to try that at work. I'm just going to stop paying my utilities, labor, and supplies. Imagine how much money I'll save? Edited April 9, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Maybe we could make the welfare moms and their kids become migrant farm workers, hotel cleaning staff, lawn maintenance workers, and construction/roofers. This way, we are primarily taking jobs away from illegal aliens (undocumented workers) and putting these n'er do wells to work. Sometimes, my genius overwhelms me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Maybe we could make the welfare moms and their kids become migrant farm workers, hotel cleaning staff, lawn maintenance workers, and construction/roofers. This way, we are primarily taking jobs away from illegal aliens (undocumented workers) and putting these n'er do wells to work. Sometimes, my genius overwhelms me. But but, the poor corporations will go broke trying to pay these people minimum wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 But but, the poor corporations will go broke trying to pay these people minimum wage. These people don't get paid. They get welfare--that's their payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 What almost caused the govt shutdown, a pie chart explanation. Different pigs, same socially conservative trough. The new repub leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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