detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 they also had a 2000 yard rusher that year. it is a formula that can work strong cowbell + top defense + qb that does not turn the ball over and can make enough important plays= wins. That was Lewis' rookie year. He rushed for 2K a few years later. He had 1364 and 6 TDs. Though they did rank #5 in team rushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 That was Lewis' rookie year. He rushed for 2K a few years later. He had 1364 and 6 TDs. Though they did rank #5 in team rushing. absolutely. my mistake. they had lewis and holmes rush for nearly 2000 their sb year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Just curious. Are you actually seeing improvement? Yes. Which is the whole crux of the debate going on about Tebow. I look at the TD strike to Decker yesterday, and the pass downfield to Fells that set it up, as well as the throw late to Decker on the sideline as some evidence. On both Decker throws he looked off coverage and on the Decker TD pumped to the left side to move coverage before throwing. I saw Tebow wait patiently and go through progressions yesterday rather than break and run when his initial receivers weren't open. I saw him throwing to the first down marker on 3rd down situations. I see him throwing away from coverage on tight routes. So yes, I am definitely seeing progress. Others aren't and are standing by their assertion that Tebow can never be a starting NFL quality passer. I am seeing enough potential flashing that I think there is a definite possibility he will be. If you add a marked improvement in his throwing and enough experience to where the game slows down for him, and add those to the qualities he has already demonstrated about physical and mental toughness, leadership, lifting his play with a game on the line, applting pressure to the opposing D, and will to win - I see some very real potential for a high quality starting NFL QB. Not a Rodgers, Brees, Brady or Manning type passer, but a guy who can win a lot of games and can come through in the clutch, and can create a situation where DEN can balance the run and the pass. I certainly see enough where barring regression that DEN doesn't have to burn its 1st or 2nd rounder next year on a QB and that they ought to take a couple of years to coach him up and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Maybe true...but why weren't they getting these results before Timmy stepped in? They were 1-4 at that point. Only one tangible thing changed. lockout did show that D's were pretty much behind O's to start the season...add in the rook, dum being dinged early and you can see why they turned it around on D Dummerville returned to the lineup and finally got healthy? A plus for sure The only stat that matters at the end of the day is winning. He is good in that stat. Dilfer won the SB with the Ravens...he then got cut the following off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Dilfer won the SB with the Ravens...he then got cut the following off-season. That's twice you mentioned that. How did BAL do the following year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) That's twice you mentioned that. How did BAL do the following year? that isn't the point..the point is that just because you WIN doesn't mean the team sees you as the answer. That is all. edit: meaning that even if Tebow led the Broncos to the playoffs that I wouldn't be surprised to see them cut ties or bring in another QB next year. Edited November 28, 2011 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You misunderstood... I'm talking about the next draft. The past is in th past. Instead of using a 1st next year on a qb, keep tebow and instead, address a bigger problem. Ah, my bad. I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 that isn't the point..the point is that just because you WIN doesn't mean the team sees you as the answer. That is all. Agreed. Or in Dilfer's case, he had a very low ceiling on what he could do as a QB. But I am sure the sky is the limit for Tebow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 that isn't the point..the point is that just because you WIN doesn't mean the team sees you as the answer. That is all. And sometimes the management can be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 And sometimes the management can be wrong... I agree 100% with that...not saying what would be the right or wrong move...just that "Winning" isn't the only thing that teams look at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 A lot of this thread is about Football performance, which it should be. You also have to consider the business aspect of Tebow for denver. He is a red hot commodity in the NFL right now. Would we really be talking about Denver this much for this long if it wasnt for him ? He is a goldmine for the Broncos. Also, if they shelve him can you imagine the pressure on whoever takes over, especially if they replace him with a young unproven qb ? Elways hooves are really tied here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 lockout did show that D's were pretty much behind O's to start the season...add in the rook, dum being dinged early and you can see why they turned it around on D of course they had a new coaching staff and new system as well. that they are playing so well so relatively fast is, well, amazing really. in particular I've been impressed with their ability to generate a devestating pass rush pretty much at will when it is required -- von miller and doom are no joke when it is 3rd and long in the 4th quarter. and of course, yes it also helps that the offense is running the ball, eating clock, and not giving them a short field due to turnovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Yes. Which is the whole crux of the debate going on about Tebow. I look at the TD strike to Decker yesterday, and the pass downfield to Fells that set it up, as well as the throw late to Decker on the sideline as some evidence. On both Decker throws he looked off coverage and on the Decker TD pumped to the left side to move coverage before throwing. I saw Tebow wait patiently and go through progressions yesterday rather than break and run when his initial receivers weren't open. I saw him throwing to the first down marker on 3rd down situations. I see him throwing away from coverage on tight routes. So yes, I am definitely seeing progress. Others aren't and are standing by their assertion that Tebow can never be a starting NFL quality passer. I am seeing enough potential flashing that I think there is a definite possibility he will be. If you add a marked improvement in his throwing and enough experience to where the game slows down for him, and add those to the qualities he has already demonstrated about physical and mental toughness, leadership, lifting his play with a game on the line, applting pressure to the opposing D, and will to win - I see some very real potential for a high quality starting NFL QB. Not a Rodgers, Brees, Brady or Manning type passer, but a guy who can win a lot of games and can come through in the clutch, and can create a situation where DEN can balance the run and the pass. I certainly see enough where barring regression that DEN doesn't have to burn its 1st or 2nd rounder next year on a QB and that they ought to take a couple of years to coach him up and see what happens. In fairness, others have some nice ammo. During his time as starting QB, they're last by a long shot on 3rd down (which was only marginally better yesterday at 5-16). You're talking a good game, but assuming he's doing all these things better, where are the results (passing wise, of course)? He's not turning it over, and that is also good, but he really only had one game where that happened anyway. Again, they're winning games, and that is good. So there's those kind of results. And hell, maybe the flex option is an offense that has no shelf-life. Maybe if they bring in a young bad-ass RB, they can just pound the rock even better than they have. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 of course they had a new coaching staff and new system as well. that they are playing so well so relatively fast is, well, amazing really. in particular I've been impressed with their ability to generate a devestating pass rush pretty much at will when it is required -- von miller and doom are no joke when it is 3rd and long in the 4th quarter. and of course, yes it also helps that the offense is running the ball, eating clock, and not giving them a short field due to turnovers. yep that too...and ball control is helping the D....the value of a fresh D in the 4th quarter is hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 That's twice you mentioned that. How did BAL do the following year? When they lost their star RB for the season during training camp? They made the play-offs as a wild card, just like the year before but came up short in the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Which qb would you target to back up tebow in the next draft? I'm guessing that kind of back up could be had in the 5th or so? Any kordell stewarts coming out? If I were DEN, I'd be looking at a QB who drops into the 3rd or 4th round when he has the skills to go a little higher. There could be as many as 5 QBs drafted in the 1st round next year, but given how many needy teams burned high picks on QBs this year I don't think you'll see a repeat by those same teams next year. That could mean guys like Cousins, Lindley, Foles or Wilson could be sitting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 In fairness, others have some nice ammo. I've never argued otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 yep that too...and ball control is helping the D....the value of a fresh D in the 4th quarter is hugh The Broncos have led in time of possession going into the 4th quarter twice during the 6 game run (Oak and KC). They were basically tied with Detroit in one and trailed in TOP in the other three wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Who is the Bronco's QB coach btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If I were DEN, I'd be looking at a QB who drops into the 3rd or 4th round when he has the skills to go a little higher. There could be as many as 5 QBs drafted in the 1st round next year, but given how many needy teams burned high picks on QBs this year I don't think you'll see a repeat by those same teams next year. That could mean guys like Cousins, Lindley, Foles or Wilson could be sitting there. Hell, Mallett fell that far and this draft is looking about as deep at the position. Plus, you're right, there seem to be way more good QBs than there are teams who are in position to spend a high pick on one considering how many have done so recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I am dieing to see how Tebow does against NE week 15. If he wins that game, I will be impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The Broncos have led in time of possession going into the 4th quarter twice during the 6 game run (Oak and KC). They were basically tied with Detroit in one and trailed in TOP in the other three wins. I will be honest I didn't check and am shocked a bit by that...but "owning" TOP doesn't tell the entire story either...what can really hurt a D is say 3 straight 3 and outs where you throw the ball 3 times and run no time off the clock and your D is right back out on the field...feel safe saying Denver isn't doing that...so the fact that they are running the ball as much as they are it does help to give their D a blow...but I still stand by my statement of "the value of a fresh D in the 4th quarter is hugh"...even if it doesn't apply here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Who is the Bronco's QB coach btw? Some Mexican guy named Jesus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I will be honest I didn't check and am shocked a bit by that...but "owning" TOP doesn't tell the entire story either...what can really hurt a D is say 3 straight 3 and outs where you throw the ball 3 times and run no time off the clock and your D is right back out on the field...feel safe saying Denver isn't doing that...so the fact that they are running the ball as much as they are it does help to give their D a blow...but I still stand by my statement of "the value of a fresh D in the 4th quarter is hugh"...even if it doesn't apply here Well, if you think about it, considering that they're running the ball far more than they're passing it, the TOP battle is actually deceiving in the wrong way for the argument about a fresh D. The clock stops on incomplete passes but it probably takes just as much time to run the next play. And the D is resting the same amount. So, considering that Denver is usually running plays that end up without a clock stoppage (assuming that out of bounds is no more likely for a run than a pass and if anything, it's probably less so), the fact that they're still not winning the TOP battle, means they're likely giving their D relatively less rest. Because, if they were running the same number of plays as the other team, they'd have a huge TOP advantage. I don't have any data on short series, but they are dead last since Tebow took over on 3rd down conversions and they have less total 1st downs per game than they did before he took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, if you think about it, considering that they're running the ball far more than they're passing it, the TOP battle is actually deceiving in the wrong way for the argument about a fresh D. The clock stops on incomplete passes but it probably takes just as much time to run the next play. And the D is resting the same amount. So, considering that Denver is usually running plays that end up without a clock stoppage (assuming that out of bounds is no more likely for a run than a pass and if anything, it's probably less so), the fact that they're still not winning the TOP battle, means they're likely giving their D relatively less rest. Because, if they were running the same number of plays as the other team, they'd have a huge TOP advantage. I don't have any data on short series, but they are dead last since Tebow took over on 3rd down conversions and they have less total 1st downs per game than they did before he took over. TOP also takes real time off the play clock while incomplete passes don't. Shortens the game in your favor. HUGH advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.