matt770 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 From what I'm hearing, the cops did a crappy job investigating at the scene and there is a prevailing opinion that they rushed to call it self-defense instead of properly canvassing for witnesses and taking a full inventory of physical evidence. They're calling for the police chief to step down also. So, a prosecutor would have a tough time proving murder beyond a reasonable doubt under these circumstances. My prediction is they prosecute it anyway, just because of the public outcry, then probably Casey Anthony's lawyer defends Zimmerman for free. The outcome will depend on the racial makeup of the jury and whether any of them have a clue (unlikely). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Coming to a boiling point very soon. Scary. Interesting... I had assumed that since he lived in a gated community that the shooter was white. Turns out he is a latino. Doesn't matter either way, just found it curious that it wasn't mentioned early on, since the race of the victim seemed to be a key point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Coming to a boiling point very soon. Scary. Interesting... I had assumed that since he lived in a gated community that the shooter was white. Turns out he is a latino. Doesn't matter either way, just found it curious that it wasn't mentioned early on, since the race of the victim seemed to be a key point. Yep, the usual suspects are on TV screaming about it now. Awesome. The shooter seems like your typical block captain or wannabe cop, all up in everyone's taco, and he's called 911 a total of 46 times or something over the past several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Coming to a boiling point very soon. Scary. Interesting... I had assumed that since he lived in a gated community that the shooter was white. Turns out he is a latino. Doesn't matter either way, just found it curious that it wasn't mentioned early on, since the race of the victim seemed to be a key point. I saw that he was hispanic (along with his picture) from the first mention I saw of the story. to me, it just goes to show that really some of the most racist people in the world are often minorities themselves, directing their racism in particular toward other minorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I saw that he was hispanic (along with his picture) from the first mention I saw of the story. to me, it just goes to show that really some of the most racist people in the world are often minorities themselves, directing their racism in particular toward other minorities. I agree. Minorites have to endure racism from all sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think the race of the victim matters regardless of the race of the attacker. I think the race of the victim has a lot to do with how little it takes for people of a certain race to be considered "dangerous". Seemingly, a black dude wearing a hoody carrying a bag of skittles and an Iced tea is considered supicious enough to enough people that charges still haven't been brought against this guy. Regardless, in most areas I've lived, latino/black relations, in general, were never particularly rosy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think the race of the victim matters regardless of the race of the attacker. I think the race of the victim has a lot to do with how little it takes for people of a certain race to be considered "dangerous". Seemingly, a black dude wearing a hoody carrying a bag of skittles and an Iced tea is considered supicious enough to enough people that charges still haven't been brought against this guy. Regardless, in most areas I've lived, latino/black relations, in general, were never particularly rosy. Depends on the size of the bag of skittles . . . . was it enough for intent to distribute? Do you know how much addictive sugar is in those damn things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathpig Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Depends on the size of the bag of skittles . . . . was it enough for intent to distribute? Do you know how much addictive sugar is in those damn things? He was getting ready to corner the underground sugar market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Now the President is involved. The guy is screwed and rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I just ordered one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I just ordered one of these. Bill Belichick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My realatively uninformed take with much information yet to be corrected and disclosed: 1) Zimmerman is a wanna-be cop who really likes to carry a pistol and feel important. 2) It probably isn't unusual for people to think that a black guy wearing a hoody is someone who merits attention. 3) One thinking that a black guy wearing a hoody merits attention doesn't, in and of itself, make one a racist. 4) Zimmerman confronts Martin. It was probably unnecessary and unwise. 5)Martin takes exception, probably thinking that his race is the only reason that Zimmerman confronted him , and gets up into Zimmerman's grill.. 6) Zimmerman, being a large guy armed with a 9 mm pistol doesn't back down. 7) Fight ensues. Zimmerman realizes that he is overmatched, and shoots Martin. 8) Police department does not handle the investigation and aftermath well.. Its not clear if Zimmerman violated the law. Its not clear if Florida's "stand your ground" law had anything to do with how Zimmerman responded to the situation, although its pretty fair to presume that he knows the law well. I think that stand your ground type laws should apply only when one is in a dwelling house. Drawing your pistol and shooting someone should be your last resort. If you can retreat, then shooting someone is not your last resort. Someone carrying a pistol should use that pistol in a defensive role only. If you initiate a confrontation while armed, you probably are not being defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 That's pretty much exactly what I think went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 My realatively uninformed take with much information yet to be corrected and disclosed: 4) Zimmerman confronts Martin. It was probably unnecessary and unwise. 7) Fight ensues. Zimmerman realizes that he is overmatched, and shoots Martin. These are the two sticking points IMO that point towards Zimmerman's guilt in this case. No law should allow an armed citizen to confront someone and then claim self-defense when they feel threatened by the very situation that they created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 These are the two sticking points IMO that point towards Zimmerman's guilt in this case. No law should allow an armed citizen to confront someone and then claim self-defense when they feel threatened by the very situation that they created. What if your nextdoor neighbor is being raped and beaten to death? Should you be able to go over there and shoot the guy in defense of your neighbor? My point is, there are some pretty jacked up circumstances out there. Obviously this case is not one of them, but there can be times when good people need to be empowered by the law to lethaly confront bad people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 What if your nextdoor neighbor is being raped and beaten to death? Should you be able to go over there and shoot the guy in defense of your neighbor? My point is, there are some pretty jacked up circumstances out there. Obviously this case is not one of them, but there can be times when good people need to be empowered by the law to lethaly confront bad people. You mean like when confronted by a teenager with iced tea and skittles? Your example is not a situation created by the shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 What if your nextdoor neighbor is being raped and beaten to death? Should you be able to go over there and shoot the guy in defense of your neighbor? My point is, there are some pretty jacked up circumstances out there. Obviously this case is not one of them, but there can be times when good people need to be empowered by the law to lethaly confront bad people. If my nextdoor neighbor is being raped and beaten to death then I go over there and do whatever I can to stop it and let the chips fall where they may because it is the right thing to do. To be honest I don't know how the law here in SC handles that type of situation. I would hope that there would be some type of law that would allow a citizen to stop a crime like that while it is taking a place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 What if your nextdoor neighbor is being raped and beaten to death? Should you be able to go over there and shoot the guy in defense of your neighbor? My point is, there are some pretty jacked up circumstances out there. Obviously this case is not one of them, but there can be times when good people need to be empowered by the law to lethaly confront bad people. Well, in that case the armed citizen (like that?) is interjecting himself into a situation in which it appears that the use of deadly force is justified to protect the life of another. He didn't create or cause the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 These are the two sticking points IMO that point towards Zimmerman's guilt in this case. No law should allow an armed citizen to confront someone and then claim self-defense when they feel threatened by the very situation that they created. Exactly... If one instigates a confrontation, and I can't believe the State of FL isn't looking at this case in this manner, the whole self defense thing falls flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Greaaaat... Now this guy should be in jail for soliciting murder... The New Black Panther Party is calling for a $10,000 bounty on the head of George Zimmerman, the Florida neighborhood watch captain who shot and killed an unarmed teenager last month. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," the Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad said Saturday at a rally in Sanford, Fla., where Trayvon Martin was killed Feb. 26, according to Fox News. Zimmerman has claimed he shot Martin in self-defense, but the New Black Panthers are calling for mobilization of 10,000 black men to capture Zimmerman, who has gone into hiding, the Orlando Sentinel reported. "He should be fearful for his life," Muhammad said. "You can't keep killing black children." According to the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the New Black Panthers "is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers." The group was founded in Dallas in 1989 and believes black Americans should have their own nation, according to the SPLC. Zimmerman shot Martin as he returned to his father's house from a store where he had bought candy. Zimmerman told a 911 dispatcher that Martin was acting suspicious and told police that he was attacked by Martin. Sanford police say they were advised by prosecutors that they did not have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Greaaaat... Now this guy should be in jail for soliciting murder... At the minimum he should be suspended 8 games. Hasn't he been paying attention to the new Orleans saints? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Greaaaat... Now this guy should be in jail for soliciting murder... Pure irony, as the family is actually saying that they don't want anyone but the police to handle it, because all this would be is more vigilante-ism that started the whole mess in the first place... I do sympathize with anyone who is completely outraged about this, but be better than the ones you're up against... If someone succeeds in retaliating against him, it's only going to justify in a few minds that Zimmerman was right, and that's the last thing you want here. Rather, when a story gets this big, then you can bet that the publicity is going to make it very tough to just sweep it under the rug. Public outrage will do far more in delivering justice than the BP will, IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You mean like when confronted by a teenager with iced tea and skittles? Your example is not a situation created by the shooter. I guess you didn't bother reading past the first sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I do sympathize with anyone who is completely outraged about this I would bet that the New Black Panthers are not outraged so much as delighted. It is a great opportunity for them. If a liberal-leaning organization like the SPLC describes them as I have quoted below, you can be sure they aren't exactly Martin Luther King. According to the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the New Black Panthers "is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I would bet that the New Black Panthers are not outraged so much as delighted. It is a great opportunity for them. If a liberal-leaning organization like the SPLC describes them as I have quoted below, you can be sure they aren't exactly Martin Luther King. So when I say that those in the government seem happy, rather than cautious, to go to war in resource-rich areas, I'm called a conspiracy theorist. But you take an militant organization that exists because of racism against them, and you think they're happy that a young black man was killed? I mean, sure any organization is going to be opportunistic when something that happens fits into their agenda, but I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what's made them militant in the first place, and akin to the flawed argument that terrorists hate us for our "freedom" and not because of our violent interventions. Ya know, maybe, just maybe, they wouldn't be so "happy" to expose a black man getting killed in a racist manner, if black people haven't been killed and oppressed in a racist manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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