Ursa Majoris Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 So when I say that those in the government seem happy, rather than cautious, to go to war in resource-rich areas, I'm called a conspiracy theorist. But you take an militant organization that exists because of racism against them, and you think they're happy that a young black man was killed? I mean, sure any organization is going to be opportunistic when something that happens fits into their agenda, but I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what's made them militant in the first place, and akin to the flawed argument that terrorists hate us for our "freedom" and not because of our violent interventions. Ya know, maybe, just maybe, they wouldn't be so "happy" to expose a black man getting killed in a racist manner, if black people haven't been killed and oppressed in a racist manner. No, you get called a conspiracy theorist when you start talking about 9/11 being an inside job. It's clear to anyone with half a brain that the neocons took advantage of 9/11 to launch a war they had been demanding for years. That isn't to say they were happy with 9/11 when they clearly weren't but there's no doubt they took advantage of this enemy action. That isn't conspiracy theory because no-one in their right mind believes 9/11 was anything other than an attack by foreign terrorists. Likewise this NBP crew, I guess - maybe they are outraged but for sure they are also making the most of the opportunity it has served up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 No, you get called a conspiracy theorist when you start talking about 9/11 being an inside job. It's clear to anyone with half a brain that the neocons took advantage of 9/11 to launch a war they had been demanding for years. That isn't to say they were happy with 9/11 when they clearly weren't but there's no doubt they took advantage of this enemy action. That isn't conspiracy theory because no-one in their right mind believes 9/11 was anything other than an attack by foreign terrorists. Likewise this NBP crew, I guess - maybe they are outraged but for sure they are also making the most of the opportunity it has served up. That was not the point of my post. My point is that for someone so quick to call me a conspiracy theorist for being skeptical (I've never claimed to have all the answers, as that would be foolish) about intentions of corrupt politicans from both parties, you seem much quicker to call the Black Panthers intentions sinister here, when there's plenty of indication that they became militant in response to something, not the other way around. Thus, we can agree to disagree with what we believe in regard to questions about the government, but I guess it's just surprising that you're so quick to dismiss anything so sinister there with regard to politics and very real interests, but yet seemed to suspect purely sinister intentions from a group formed in response to oppression and violence like this shooting. Just kind of bizarre to me, is all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I recall hearing/reading in several places that when Zimmerman called 911 that night and talked to the police they told him not to do anything. Not only did he confront the teenager, but he also took his gun with him, and then escalated the confrontation. I don't doubt that it went down as some suspect, that he confrtoned Martin and the kid was pissed about it, and got in his face. He was there legitimately visiting family (Zimmerman probably thought "huh, yeah sure that's what they all say"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That was not the point of my post. Which is what exactly? Ursa being suspicious of the Black Panthers having ulterior motives makes him a hypocrite for not concurring with all of your black helicopter brigade suspicions? Ummm yea...methinks that's quite the stretch in making a 'point.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Which is what exactly? Ursa being suspicious of the Black Panthers having ulterior motives makes him a hypocrite for not concurring with all of your black helicopter brigade suspicions? Ummm yea...methinks that's quite the stretch in making a 'point.' I think the point may have been that if others throw out an opinion that Ursa does not agree with he comes back with comments about proving it - now he throws out an opinion about the Black Panthers being happy about this guy getting killed with nothing to back that up but opinion. That is my opinion but I have no facts to back it up so maybe I should delete this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The problem with this law is that, if seems pretty easy to bait someone and shoot them. It doesn't even seem like you need to bait them. All you need is for it to be your word against theirs (which isn't worth much because they are dead.) If its so easy for this to happen with the info we have, how easy is it for people to shoot people under less clear circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It might not be quite as cut and dried as initial appearances would make it seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymakers Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack The teen was suspended from school three times He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'Josh Gordon pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-school-having-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1qKILxAcV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack The teen was suspended from school three times He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'Josh Gordon pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-school-having-burglary-tool.html#ixzz1qKILxAcV All things that clearly deserve the death penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 All things that clearly deserve the death penalty Only one of the two individuals involved actually has a police record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack The teen was suspended from school three times He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'Josh Gordon pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1qKILxAcV So he was probably casing the neighborhood, then was going home to get his burglary tools. Did they solve all the other burglaries in the neighborhood? It was probably this kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Me thinks the lunatic fringe is going to be mighty bummed when they find Zimmerman not guilty, if he is ever brought to trial at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack The teen was suspended from school three times He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'Josh Gordon pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1qKILxAcV Not relevant to this story at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' and women's jewellery in his backpack The teen was suspended from school three times He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'Josh Gordon pipe' and a baggie with drug residue Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1qKILxAcV Even Texas won't execute you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Wow, this is getting really ugly quickly... Even more sickening than it now appearing that the media jumped the gun to paint this a sensationalistic racist killing before all the facts came out, is that people are now calling the kid's character into question (and I really hope heads roll for whoever is releasing the boy's private info. As a juvenile who's been in trouble with the law, I'm pretty sure it's quite illegal to be giving out a minor's records, probably even school ones). The kid's background is irrelevant here, and it sickens me that it's coming into question of some unrelated transgressions he had. The only thing that is relevant here is whether he provoked the fight with Zimmerman or if Zimmerman put his hands on him first. There is nothing illegal about Zimmerman following and investigating the boy, having done his due diligence to call the police, but the crux here (IMO), is whether he initiated or provoked the violent confrontation that ensued.... That's what I'd like to know, because with witness accounts that Martin slammed his head into the curb, I am certainly not ready to call this a race crime anymore, without knowing more. Edited March 27, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The only thing that is relevant here is whether he provoked the fight with Zimmerman or if Zimmerman put his hands on him first. Maybe Zimmerman confronted Martin. Maybe Martin confronted Zimmerman. Maybe it was a mutual thing. Maybe Zimmerman provoked the fight, but Martin initiated the contact. Maybe Martin provoked the fight but Zimmerman initiated the contact. Or maybe they had words and they were both willing combatants. There are lots of relevant questions out there. It seems to me that the most pertinent question at the moment is why Zimmerman got out of the car and introduced a pistol into the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Maybe Zimmerman confronted Martin. Maybe Martin confronted Zimmerman. Maybe it was a mutual thing. Maybe Zimmerman provoked the fight, but Martin initiated the contact. Maybe Martin provoked the fight but Zimmerman initiated the contact. Or maybe they had words and they were both willing combatants. There are lots of relevant questions out there. It seems to me that the most pertinent question at the moment is why Zimmerman got out of the car and introduced a pistol into the situation. Wasn't he told by the cops to NOT follow him on the 911 transcripts? If he didn't obey the cops, then everything afterward is on his head, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathpig Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Wasn't he told by the cops to NOT follow him on the 911 transcripts? If he didn't obey the cops, then everything afterward is on his head, IMO I was going to bring this up. If you are acting as a Neighborhood Watch person, it seems like you are subordinate to the police as it relates to dealing with suspicious people and protecting your neighborhood or whatever. If you are told by the police to do (or not do) something specifically, and you disobey that order, it seems like you should have some explaining to do when that insubordination leads, directly or indirectly, to someone's death. I haven't heard Zimmerman give a particularly good reason as to why he decided to ignore the very specific instructions from the police, and as a result of him ignoring those instructions a conflict was started that resulted in someone being killed. A death that would likely have been avoided had he just followed instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Wasn't he told by the cops to NOT follow him on the 911 transcripts? If he didn't obey the cops, then everything afterward is on his head, IMO That's what I read. But, as I see it, he was either justified to get out of the car and introduce a gun into a potentially volatile situation or he wasn't - what someone said on the phone in that situation really doesn't matter. There are all kinds of possible scenarios that play out after Zimmerman gets out of the car. But it seems pretty clear that if Zimmerman doesn't get out of the car with his gun, Martin doesn't get shot. Edited March 27, 2012 by Furd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymakers Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Me thinks that when you confront someone and ask them if they have a problem (Martin talking to Zimmerman) and you respond back no. Then you reply " You Do Now" (martin talking to Zimmerman again). Then you proceed to assult that person and he has a gun. Result is that you get shot. You will find that when this is all said and done that Martin was looking for Zimmerman and not the other way around. Zimmerman last reply was that he lost him. At least thats what the White Hispanic said. Edited March 27, 2012 by moneymakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Me thinks That's as far as I made it. It won't be long now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 This is only gonna get worse... The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News. But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News. Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime. Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin, 17, in self defense. One complicating factor in the investigation was that the first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective. The State Attorney's office said only "no comment" when asked about the affidavit today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Wasn't he told by the cops to NOT follow him on the 911 transcripts? If he didn't obey the cops, then everything afterward is on his head, IMO was he told this by a police officer or some fat dude that sits on his ass eating cheetos answering phones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Me thinks that when you confront someone and ask them if they have a problem (Martin talking to Zimmerman) and you respond back no. Then you reply " You Do Now" (martin talking to Zimmerman again). Then you proceed to assult that person and he has a gun. Result is that you get shot. You will find that when this is all said and done that Martin was looking for Zimmerman and not the other way around. Zimmerman last reply was that he lost him. At least thats what the White Hispanic said. One thing's for sure, cases like these sure bring out the nutcases, and those who somehow believe they were there and witnessed the event. And Al Sharpton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 from the comments section in one of the above links_ "Al and Jessie could do more for race relation improvement if they would show up at events such as the funeral for the white, female, police officer that was gunned down by a young black man last month, in Florida, as she approached his car." While I won't give my thoughts here on Al and Jesse, I do wonder why I have'nt seen this story of this female police officer on the news. Has anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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