Keeper League Rules Question

[The Hitter]

Just joined a keeper league and there are some issues regarding the rules for trades and/or keepers.

 

Up to 3 players can be kept and we are in the middle of the 'trading' period before our draft starts next week. Note that compensation for any player kept is the round he was drafted in prior year(s).

 

An example with the current rules:

 

I trade my 3.10 pick to another owner for SJackson (a 3rd round selection last year). It seems simple enough. However, under the current rules interpretation, when the trading deadline ends and I have to designate my 3 keepers, I now have to provide compensation of a 3rd round pick in order to designate SJackson as my keeper for the 3rd round. But I just traded away my 3rd round pick to acquire him!!

 

It sounds like I'm being asked to compensate for him twice (once to acquire him and once to keep him). Under this rule system, you would never be able to trade LT2 for a 1st round pick, because the new owner of LT2 would not be able to keep him since they no longer have a 1st round pick to give as compensation for keeping him.

 

My 'keeper-savvy' friends have suggested that the rules are being interpreted wrong. If you trade for a player (SJ for the 3.10), then you have given your compensation to the other owner, and don't need to compensate again. However, if the player is your player and not acquired through trade, then you would give up the round as compensation.

 

Looking for input to resolve this. Any help would be appreciated.

[rhippens]

what if you give up your next highest pick, in this case, the 2nd.

 

if i'm reading it right another problem would be in you wanted to keep 2 players from the same round. let's say you drafted a breakout reciever in 8th round and want to keep him. but during the course of the year, you traded for a another player from the 8th that you wish to keep. i would suggest that you would have to give up your 7th and 8th to keep both.

 

but i do see your point in the LT situation. you guys should probably have something written in the by-laws stating that if you trade a draft pick for the round he was previously drafted, that the owner is either a.) free of having to give up the pick, or b.) must give the next pick as well in order to keep him.

 

tough question.

[Big Country]

Trading for a playr is very different than keeping the player, and what you are describing is the very reason I try to avoid situations where you forfeit the pick the player was drafted in.

 

If you give up a 3rd rounder for Steven Jackson, you are compensating the owner of SJax for the rights to acquire SJax FROM THAT OWNER, however, you have not given up the required compensation to the league in order to retain his services. The only way to make the trade work is for the owner of SJax to use his own third rounder to hold SJax, then to trade him to you, but then it defeats the likely purpose fo him trading SJax which is likely so he could keep a different player.

 

And you are right, a first rounder could not be given up for LT2 unless you have 2 1st rounders already. Then, it would cost you the pick in the trade for LT2, and another 1st rounder to be able to keep him.

 

If your league is adamant on keeping the "round a player was drafted" rule for keepers, perhaps it could be amended to say round the player was drafted, or earlier, if neccesary. So, you could give your 3rd rounder to acquire SJax, then give up the 2nd rounder to keep him as you do not have a 3rd rounder available. Obviously, if you have no first rounder you can't keep a guy that was kept in the first as there is no higher pick to give up in lieu of the first rounder.

 

Either way, IMO, not the ideal way to handle keepers for the exact reasons you are seeing with your league now.

[The Hitter]

"If you give up a 3rd rounder for Steven Jackson, you are compensating the owner of SJax for the rights to acquire SJax FROM THAT OWNER, however, you have not given up the required compensation to the league in order to retain his services. "

 

Aren't you giving up that required compensation to the league when you designate him as your 3rd round pick in the draft? If you took him in the draft, then you are giving up your 3rd round pick as compensation. If you designate him as your 3rd round keeper, then you are giving up your 3rd round pick as compensation.

 

Seems the same to me.

[Big Country]

"If you give up a 3rd rounder for Steven Jackson, you are compensating the owner of SJax for the rights to acquire SJax FROM THAT OWNER, however, you have not given up the required compensation to the league in order to retain his services. "

 

Aren't you giving up that required compensation to the league when you designate him as your 3rd round pick in the draft?  If you took him in the draft, then you are giving up your 3rd round pick as compensation.  If you designate him as your 3rd round keeper, then you are giving up your 3rd round pick as compensation. 

 

Seems the same to me.

 

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Right.. but, you can't declare him your 3rd round pick in the draft until you actually own him. Anything you give up to gain ownership of a player is completely separate from what is required to be given up to retain the player.

[Fenokee]

If you trade a draft pick for a player that is slotted in the round you just traded away, you either slot the player up or down (as necessary, or IAW league by-laws).

 

For the LT scenario, I would think he would occupy the highest available draft slot that owner has. In your example, you traded the 1st round pick for a first rounder. That player still retains his 1st round keeper status, but for the upcoming draft, LT would occupy that owners 2nd round slot. But just for that season. Next year, LT falls back into the 1st round keeper slot. I would assume an owner who ends up with two 1st round keepers would have to sacrifice his first and second draft picks to compensate for these guys (rounding down, since you cant round up from a 1st).

 

In your case, it comes down to league by-laws. Since you have no 3rd round pick to use for Jackson, you'll either have to give up your 2nd round slot, or your 4th. Heavy price up front, but hey, its a keeper league. Will it be worth it down the road?

[Big Country]

If you trade a draft pick for a player that is slotted in the round you just traded away, you either slot the player up or down (as necessary, or IAW league by-laws).

 

For the LT scenario, I would think he would occupy the highest available draft slot that owner has. In your example, you traded the 1st round pick for a first rounder. That player still retains his 1st round keeper status, but for the upcoming draft, LT would occupy that owners 2nd round slot. But just for that season. Next year, LT falls back into the 1st round keeper slot. I would assume an owner who ends up with two 1st round keepers would have to sacrifice his first and second draft picks to compensate for these guys (rounding down, since you cant round up from a 1st).

 

In your case, it comes down to league by-laws. Since you have no 3rd round pick to use for Jackson, you'll either have to give up your 2nd round slot, or your 4th. Heavy price up front, but hey, its a keeper league. Will it be worth it down the road?

 

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Only issue I have with the above proposed solution regarding LT is what is to prevent an owner from trading away his higher picks for some lower picks or players and end up giving up say a 4th or 5th for LT for that year? Then, trading the acquired picks etc. to move back up in the draft.

[geeteebee]

My $0.02:

 

The keeper leagues I've played in forbid you to trade your 3.10 pick for SJax for precisely this reason. Since you will be losing that pick, you don't really have it to trade (for a player selected in that round), therefore you have to either trade your 2nd or 4th or whatever else the other party and you agree on.

 

I know that when you trade for somebody who you don't intend on keeping it is a hassle because it gives you less to negotiate with, but it does solve the issue you describe.

[LegFuJohnson]

So you have to give up a pick to acquire the player... then another pick to keep the player? How does anyone get traded under those rules?

 

Someone would have to be quite a bargain (based on their round) to be worth losing two players to get him, and if he's such a bargain, why would the other owner trade him in the first place?

[Big Country]

So you have to give up a pick to acquire the player... then another pick to keep the player?  How does anyone get traded under those rules?

 

Someone would have to be quite a bargain (based on their round) to be worth losing two players to get him, and if he's such a bargain, why would the other owner trade him in the first place?

 

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That's what happens in any league where you must forfeit any sort of a pick in order to keep a player, whether it be the round he was drafted, 3 rounds earlier than he was drafted, one pick per player starting with your st rounder and working down, one pick per player starting with say your 5th and working up (for a 5-man keeper for example).

 

But you are gith about having to be a bargain. Say the DDavis owner got him his rookie year in the 12th.... well, it would be well worth giving up a 2nd rounder for him if it meant all you had to do was then give up your 12th as well to keep him, but, unless the Davis owner was stacked with bargains, it seems like he wouldn't be too enticed to trade him away at that low of a cost.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Big Country

[Primetime9287]

Only issue I have with the above proposed solution regarding LT is what is to prevent an owner from trading away his higher picks for some lower picks or players and end up giving up say a 4th or 5th for LT for that year? Then, trading the acquired picks etc. to move back up in the draft.

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Agreed.