Bronco Billy Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Little game = calling me out for choosing to only reply to one part of your response. I didn't know that this was a test where I had to respond to each of your statements. I didn't realize that answering a simple, direct question was so daunting for you. My apologies. I consider production. I consider it over an amount of time longer than one season, seeing that this isn't a redraft league we're talking about. You said that if this guy's team isn't performing well, he could simply "trade him to a contender". What owner would mortgage his future by trading for a back that is on the downside of his career? I certainly wouldn't make that error, and I highly doubt any savvy owner would either. Well, in $$$ leagues, if Barber is the guy that puts an owner over the top it would seem to be foolhardy not to trade for him. If he wins a team the championship, as he did last year for the eventual champion in the league I previously described, that seems like a fair trade or better for the guy who rakes in the top prize money. What did the champion sacrifice to get Barber? The last pick of the first round in the successive rookie draft? That's a very good deal, in my opinion, to get the top dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I didn't realize that answering a simple, direct question was so daunting for you. My apologies. Well, in $$$ leagues, if Barber is the guy that puts an owner over the top it would seem to be foolhardy not to trade for him. If he wins a team the championship, as he did last year for the eventual champion in the league I previously described, that seems like a fair trade or better for the guy who rakes in the top prize money. What did the champion sacrifice to get Barber? The last pick of the first round in the successive rookie draft? That's a very good deal, in my opinion, to get the top dollars. Great point but it's all about the future in dynasty leagues and Barber's future is totally up in the air. Besides, they have a GREAT running-back in Jacobs to take touchdowns away from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I have to agree with darin3. Barber is very close to retiring, at least that is what all signs point to. I could not imagine someone wanting to trade for him at the end of the season for next year when next year as a whole is a huge question mark for Barber. Absolutely spot-on. so where would you draft SA then behind Bush ?? Uh, no. Alexander has plenty of good seasons left in him. Well, in $$$ leagues, if Barber is the guy that puts an owner over the top it would seem to be foolhardy not to trade for him. If he wins a team the championship, as he did last year for the eventual champion in the league I previously described, that seems like a fair trade or better for the guy who rakes in the top prize money. What did the champion sacrifice to get Barber? The last pick of the first round in the successive rookie draft? That's a very good deal, in my opinion, to get the top dollars. Guess it would have to depend on the league and the deal. Not saying it's impossible, but it'd be difficult. See Goopster's comments, above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Great point but it's all about the future in dynasty leagues and Barber's future is totally up in the air. Besides, they have a GREAT running-back in Jacobs to take touchdowns away from him. Last I saw, Barber was reportedly in the best shape in his career going into this season. I'll try to find a link. And I know that Jacobs was stealing TDs last year, too. Barber still finished as the 3rd highest scorer in our league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Last I saw, Barber was reportedly in the best shape in his career going into this season. I'll try to find a link. And I know that Jacobs was stealing TDs last year, too. Barber still finished as the 3rd highest scorer in our league. Jamal Lewis was in the best shape of his career last year also. At least that's what Suzy Kolber said . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) Last I saw, Barber was reportedly in the best shape in his career going into this season. I'll try to find a link. And I know that Jacobs was stealing TDs last year, too. Barber still finished as the 3rd highest scorer in our league. Another thing to consider is the fact that Barber didn't get banged up much in the early part of his career, seeing that he was a spot-duty / 3rd down / change of pace back. He certainly holds value this year and MAYBE next year. But the guy is 31 years old - something you plainly cannot deny or fail to consider in a dynasty league. I personally think Jacobs is only a small factor in the de-valuation of Barber in dynasty formats. Dude is 256 lbs. He is not an every-down back, IMO. Edited June 20, 2006 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Another thing to consider is the fact that Barber didn't get banged up much in the early part of his career, seeing that he was a spot-duty / 3rd down / change of pace back. He certainly holds value this year and MAYBE next year. But the guy is 31 years old - something you plainly cannot deny or fail to consider in a dynasty league. I personally think Jacobs is only a small factor in the de-valuation of Barber in dynasty formats. Dude is 256 lbs. He is not an every-down back, IMO. Wow. Who'd have thought that in the middle of a pissing contest that a reasonable conversation would break out? I do admit that I like Jacobs, and I think he's very capable of being Tiki's heir apparent. While he has abnormal size for a RB, we're seeing more & more of the skill guys being bigger than traditional models - guys like Culpepper & Owens. There's no reason why a RB can't be that big and not be capable of playing in the NFL, provided that he has an appropriate skill set, which Jacobs seems to have. Remember, one of the best RBs ever to play the game - James Brown - was considered huge for his position in his time also. Not to say that Jacobs will be Brown's incarnation, but size exclusively does not exclude one from playing a position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Jamal Lewis was in the best shape of his career last year also. At least that's what Suzy Kolber said . Jamal has an extensive injury history, going back into his college days. Barber does not have a similar history, and his touches were limited the first 5 years of his career. I could easily see two more superb seasons out of him before he considers retirement. Personally, I'd rather have two superb years with a vet like Barber and then have to replace him - knowing that I can draft Jacobs dirt cheap in a dynasty draft - than to pick a younger guy who might be locked into 6 more years of being nothing more than a #10 to #15 RB with little to no chance of breaking into the top 5. That's my personality. It's not for everyone, for sure. James has played 7 seasons already, has torn his ACL already, and only has 1439 less touches than Barber. Given his situation in AZ, I'd prefer Barber in NY with their O given that Edge probably only has one more season left in him beyond Barber's retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 James has played 7 seasons already, has torn his ACL already, and only has 1439 less touches than Barber. Given his situation in AZ, I'd prefer Barber in NY with their O given that Edge probably only has one more season left in him beyond Barber's retirement. Could not disagree with you more. James is what 28 and Barber is what 31, 32? James definitely has more than one year if Barber retires next year. You are saying Edge is going to play only two more years then? I really don't think so. I don't think you can really hang the ACL injury over Edge's head still. That is just a lame cop out. And you are comparing their offenses? Give me a break. Giants are good but the Cardinals have all the pieces to be EXPLOSIVE aka "The Greatest Show on Turf." I'm not saying it is given that that is going to happen, but I like my chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Could not disagree with you more. James is what 28 and Barber is what 31, 32? He turned 31 in april and likes it when fans are down on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Not so bad for a re-draft league, but wouldn't have taken him that high in dynasty for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I think both Darin and Billy make good points. I tend to agree a little more with what Darin says until he says he would take Edge over Tiki. IMO Edge is every bit of the risk Tiki is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 IMO Edge is every bit of the risk Tiki is. I'm curious why so, especially in a dynasty league? I think both of these guys are short term risk and maybe semi-busts this year. That being said...I'll go with the guys that is 2 years younger, bigger, and has consistently been a perennial top tier RB throughout his whole careeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Did anyone else notice Fitz at the 9 spot??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Did anyone else notice Fitz at the 9 spot??? Yea, there should be no way that guys isn't there at 2.4 and the it's still quite a reach IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I'm curious why so, especially in a dynasty league? I think both of these guys are short term risk and maybe semi-busts this year. That being said...I'll go with the guys that is 2 years younger, bigger, and has consistently been a perennial top tier RB throughout his whole careeer. Totally agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysight Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) The ONLY circumstance in which it would be wise to take an older runningback early on in a dynasty draft is if you question whether or not the league is actually going to last (or if you are going to stay in it). Otherwise you are likely to be in the toilet in the not-so-distant future. The guy who got Reggie Bush at 1.12 may have received the biggest gift of the draft. Edited June 21, 2006 by Crazysight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Did anyone else notice Fitz at the 9 spot??? Even more shocking is Boldin at 1.13. The first two WR drafted play for the same team. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Totally agree . or as in my case i'm going for the win this year. i thought i knew most of these owner pretty well as we are in other dynasty leagues together. my thinking is that 75% of them were all going to be drafting for the future and not looking at this year ,, leaving it wide open for someone to draft hi quality vets. sinse this is a $600.00 money league winning the first year never knowing how long a league will last is why i drfted the way i did. now knowing that i'm looking at this year and not the future what would be your next pick ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) Giants are good but the Cardinals have all the pieces to be EXPLOSIVE aka "The Greatest Show on Turf." I'm not saying it is given that that is going to happen, but I like my chances. The Giants are legitimately on the verge of being a great O right now and Manning is still in the middle of his learning curve. AZ is at least 2 years behind with Leinart being drafted this year, and with the O-line in its current condition, I'd say the odds are better than 50/50 that Warner never sees the end of the season under center - in fact I'd be frankly shocked if he gets to midseason without being injured & missing time. Any QB & RB is a significant health risk in AZ right now. Green has coached some prolific offenses, no doubt. But with that line, the O simply isn't going to function at a high efficiency. Don't even get me started on the D. AZ is going to have to throw the ball a ton with the points they are going to give up. They can't find more than 1 NFL caliber starting LB on their current roster, and their 1st round "stud" DE is so lousy that they're trying to play him at LB to try to wring any kind of value at all out of him. AZ has had some significant 1st round major busts on the D-line recently. With the incompetent D, the amount of RB carries is going to be very limited. AZ was easily the worst rushing team in the NFL last season in rushing yards, ypc, carries per game, rushing TDs, rushing first downs, and 20+ yd runs. 13 RBs ran for more yards by themselves than the entire team rushing O of AZ. Part of that is attributable to extremely poor talent in the backfield, but part of that is also attributable to the O-line and the terrible D, and AZ has done nothing to address the latter 2 problems. If you think Edge is going to line up in the backfield and AZ is suddenly going to get him 1300 yds rushing & 10+ rushing TDs, you're seriously delusional. Edited June 21, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REZ Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Do most of these guys live in Arizona or are they just hugh Az fans?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 well i'm up next 2.07 and it looks like i can have either Rudi Westbrook DD Manning at least theyare the players that i'm looking at with 1 pick before me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) well i'm up next 2.07 and it looks like i can have either Rudi Westbrook DD Manning at least theyare the players that i'm looking at with 1 pick before me Westbrook at 2.07 in a ppr league is a huge steal. Manning is also a great pick for a league with 6 pts/all TDs. Just saw that the leaague is a 4 pp/pass TD league. Manning is still a solid pick there. Not crazy about Rudi there with Perry lurking in the wings, and IMO DD is a poor pick in that spot. There will be other RBs that will be more prolific available later in the draft. Edited June 21, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) The ONLY circumstance in which it would be wise to take an older runningback early on in a dynasty draft is if you question whether or not the league is actually going to last (or if you are going to stay in it). Otherwise you are likely to be in the toilet in the not-so-distant future. The ONLY circumstance? How about if you want to cash in as league champion in the league's first 2 years, and then rebuild for 3-4 years? As far as value on investment, that's a wiser move than contributing $$$ for a few years waiting for your team to grow up while a bunch of other teams are maturing at the same rate. The guy who got Reggie Bush at 1.12 may have received the biggest gift of the draft. Why would getting a CoP RB in the 1st round be getting a big gift? I'd take D Williams or Maroney over Bush in a dynasty league. I could almost justify the Bush pick if the league rewarded return yards in any meaningful way. But an unproven rookie who was a part timer in college, is very light for his height, and has some character issues already in the 1st round of a dynasty draft? Talk about your all-or-nothing play. If Bush is the stud some think he'll be, you could simply justify the position. If he is only a shadow of the HoF player that some have already annointed him to be, that team just pissed away a 1st round pick in the initial draft for a 2nd/3rd round player or worse. That's tough to recover from in a dynasty league. Picking Bush in the first is a much bigger gamble than picking Tiki in the first. Edited June 21, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REZ Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I didn't look, but if it's ppr, Westbrook is a pretty good bargain at that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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