Art Vandalay Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Our league has been 10 teams proformance scoring for the last 7 years. I have proposed we expanded to 12 teams this year. The increased revenues to the prize pool and turning up the difficulty factor a notch or two ,would be good for our league My opposition continues to argue the depth/injury impact this will have - WHich exists for everyone , The main point we disagree on is the impact on our Free Agent/Trade pool - which for the last three years average s100 moves.. We charge $10 a player - pick ups or trades . So its about a $1000 to the prize pool on top of our $2500 from entry fees We currently draft 16 rounds - 10 teams- 160 players We would still rdaft 16 =12 teams - 192 Players Those additional 32 player would normally be lying around 10 team post draft- available in the Free Agency . My opposition to expansion feels that our season avg of 100 pick-ups will now be less than 50 total moves. I dont agree , I say it is a small impact I feel owners will always make moves based on matchups, If your match up sucks and some one on the wire is pretty good- you make the move.. My Whole Freaking Point of this post is - Any one have experience changing their league from 10-12 teams ??and can you tell me how it went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 My local was a 10 teamer for two years and when I brought up expanding from 10 to 12, I had one person who was against it. He felt that it would make owning a team more difficult and would require more work on the part of the owner. Needless to say, we added three new teams that year to reach 12...and have been much better off since. We rid ourselves of a lazy owner and created a more competitive situation. Sounds to me like you have some lazy owners as well...and they'd prefer to have "stacked" teams instead of a truly competitive situation. Maybe they need to go as well, for the benefit of your league as a whole. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Unless all of your owners are fortune tellers, there will always be players on the WW who will perform better than some players who are rostered - I don't care how many teams are in the league (unless the league literally drafts all the players in the NFL). You might try that bit of common sense on the opposing owners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ive tried in my local for years, to no avail... " how will i get a good team with that many less players in the pool"... fricken wetoads.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Gotta use the common sense angle and hammer away that bigger prize money and a more competitive league is always better long term By the way I am looking to import or export some latex , maybe you can help ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Gotta use the common sense angle and hammer away that bigger prize money and a more competitive league is always better long term By the way I am looking to import or export some latex , maybe you can help ? "And you want to be my latex salesman..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 why not cut roster size to 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFranchise777 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Take it to a vote,and leave it at that,in my opinion...That way it's off your mind and you can start studying to bury the complainers.....If that's not an option,I'm sure you can find another owner with ease.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandalay Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Thanks - we are a democratic set-up so we will all vote in the next two weeks July 23 I know if it passes 6-4 I will feel those 4 owners will be throwing it my face all season long.. & these guys are all close long term buds who all have been in the league from day one .. oh well lets see how it shakes out...F'em...lol . Latex..Im gonna stick to just the importing and give up the exporting ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 (edited) Is this a total re-draft league. If there are protected players, how do you deal with that situation? I wouldn't join a league where the best "30" players are already off the board (assuming three per team). If you look at "raw numbers", you gain off the top 500, to the pool. Even if the 32 extra players reduced your 100 FA moves to 68 FA moves, you are still gaining $180 from the get go. It is also flawed to think that there will be fewer moves, because with injuries and how equal the bench players are in a 12 team league, I have found owners to be MORE aggressive in trying to find those bench gems to add to their teams for and end-season run. The shades of gbray are much more subtle at the tier four players. It is harder to play in a twelve team league, and this is where the better managers start to really have an advantage over the guys that want to have an auto-roster, every week. I did play in a superstar league last year where every team could start any NFL player they wanted every week. It was very interesting. You would think that Manning and LT were always auto starts, but the guys who took chances and studied the match-ups did much better than starting an all-star team every week. It is sort of the extreme opposite of a 12 or 16 team league, but just as difficult to succeed in. The league started 3 QBs, 4 RBs, 6 WRs, 2TE, 2K and 2TD. Though managing the bench was not an issue (injuries & FAs), choosing a weekly roster was very stressfull. Sure, every week some teams would start the same guys at a few slots, those are just washes and like ZERO points. But it was the other players and match-ups that made it so interesting. It also didn't tie you to one set of players and their games the whole season, the varried weekly roster made it more likely that you would watch a greater variety of games and teams throughout the season. I really liked it and will probably do that and my BOTH homer league again and nothing else. Edit to add: The drawback for some to this type of league is that there is no draft. I love the draft, but after a few, your spent, and this is a great way to be a fan of the NFL and play FF at a competative level at the same time. I was pleasantly suprised! Edited July 13, 2007 by McBoog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 why not cut roster size to 15? Good suggestion. We have a 12 teamer and our draft is 14 rounds, so only 14 roster spots. Works out pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I tried to get a league w/ 10 teams to agree this offseason to expand next offseason ... frustratingly, it got shot down. Good points made above: * 12 owners will compete for lightening in a bottle and will do a load of moves * As long as the total moves do not decline by more than 50%, there will be more $$s in the kitty at the end of the year with 12 owners than 10 * Dropping one spot from the standard roster will do a bit to ensure that there are more players worth having that aren't on anyone's roster Another idea ... add another spot to the typical starting lineup should increase the scramble for viable players each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandalay Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Guys I hear ya, I have offered up reducing our roster size, limiting position totals to 5WR 6RB etc...We currently allow 2 RB 2WR or 1RB 3WR as your starting roster every week. I will be proposing limiting roster to 16 total 15 active 1 IR , from our current 16 with 2 IR. As a 10 team league we currently draft 16 , and allow owners to hold 18 total with 16 active 2IR as the rule.We allow our owners 2 FA moves without having to drop anyone from your roster . We have no restrictions on who you IR week 2 week( player doesnt need to be hurt at all in our league). So you draft 16 in our 10 team league and then can make 2 moves post week 1 without having to cut anyone. holding 18 total I suggest that if we do vote to expand , we limit our roster to 16 , draft 15 and allow 1 FA without having to consider cutting anyone right away . I agree that even with 12 teams the overall level of FA & Trades will at least remain equal , and is likely to increase just based on expansion .But a few of the hard core 10 Team guys , are unwilling to give up depth for overall prize pool increase ... The additionsl $600 in prize money payout is not enough for some of our owners , even though we would still be putting 6 teams into the playoffs under a 12 team design , same as our 10 team set up ... but still they have reservation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 My local was a 10 teamer for two years and when I brought up expanding from 10 to 12, I had one person who was against it. He felt that it would make owning a team more difficult and would require more work on the part of the owner. Needless to say, we added three new teams that year to reach 12...and have been much better off since. We rid ourselves of a lazy owner and created a more competitive situation. Sounds to me like you have some lazy owners as well...and they'd prefer to have "stacked" teams instead of a truly competitive situation. Maybe they need to go as well, for the benefit of your league as a whole. IMHO. lol @ this "10 team leagues are stacked but 12 is so much more competitive" BS. 12+ just means a thinner FA pool. It also tends to usually mean 3 divisions, which means much more of a chance of a weak div - ie a weak div winner who wins out over superior teams. pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 It also tends to usually mean 3 divisions, which means much more of a chance of a weak div - ie a weak div winner who wins out over superior teams. pass We have 14 teams in our league set up into 2 divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 One way to adjust is to go for payment per player move to a flat entrance fee for the kitty. If each player currently has an entrance fee of $100 and averages another $100 in player moves. Just make the entrance fee $200. The pot stays the same (acutally grows because of the addition of two new players) plus you get the additional competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnToSender Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I am in a 12 person league, 20 rounds, 1 QB, 2 RBs 3 WRS 1 TE 1 K 1 Team defense: 12 people really, really, makes you research and study before a draft. The waiver wire is vacant in the beginning, you better handcuff, but 2 divisions of 6 really make for some fun play off races. 12 people league rules, 14 people leagues, scare me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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