Avernus Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Tanking can be very beneficial to a team - especially entering the playoffs or jockeying for draft position in keeper or dynasty leagues. Tanking is never ethical, no matter what the reason. Man up & play the game the way it was designed. Tanking is for nancies. I would be if I didn't make the playoffs because someone else tanked to get another team into the playoffs.... this makes it "unethical"....because you deliberately benched players to affect the playoff seeding... that would be like me benching SJax and AD this week to get my opponent, who has a playoff spot, a different seed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Duh, if you tank, you lose home field advantage. Did you ever think of that? Yeah, but if you needlessly start your studs they might get injured. Then you would be really screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Yeah, but if you needlessly start your studs they might get injured. Then you would be really screwed. you may have a point... "you can't have two #1's, that makes 11" "so you're saying there's a chance?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I would be if I didn't make the playoffs because someone else tanked to get another team into the playoffs.... this makes it "unethical"....because you deliberately benched players to affect the playoff seeding... that would be like me benching SJax and AD this week to get my opponent, who has a playoff spot, a different seed... To me, it's unethical to tank your team if it does not have an effect on your team. If I was out of the playoffs but tanking my team would allow a friend to get in (or an enemy to not), then that's unethical. Tanking a team to jockey for a better playoff position, especially if all the playoff teams are already decided, I think is unsportsmanlike but not unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 You only tank a game if you are trying to piss off the FF gods. Don't EVER, and I mean EVER, mess with the force of the FF gods. You will regret it. Good info here. Beyond that, considering that all the play-off spots are set and you're not tanking to help one team (perhaps one you feel is stumbling to the finish) get in over one that is coming on strong, it's not that big a deal (aside from the 'careful what you ask for theory posed by CD". It was the other, then you'd be a total loser and deserve at least the ire of your league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 To me, it's unethical to tank your team if it does not have an effect on your team. If I was out of the playoffs but tanking my team would allow a friend to get in (or an enemy to not), then that's unethical. Tanking a team to jockey for a better playoff position, especially if all the playoff teams are already decided, I think is unsportsmanlike but not unethical. I don't see how it isn't unethical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 eth·ics –plural noun 1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. 2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. 3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. 4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions. What we are trying to decide here.... and have been for years.... is the rightness or wrongness of 'positioning' ones team. Can we have a "I was wrong in what I did, but my motives were pure" scenario? Nah..... one plays to win... period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I don't see how it isn't unethical... Because nobody is being cut out of a chance to win the money by his actions. In terms of jockeying for position, he might think his actions give him a favorable match-up at the expense of someone else, but one never knows. The person "getting hosed" may end up with the last laugh because the team he was trying to avoid playing could lay an egg next week. However, tanking to keep someone out of the play-offs is different. The team losing out because of this is assured of losing out. There is no scenario where they could get the last laugh. That, I think, is the difference. For instance, that BS new tactic of calling time out right before a FG is kind of lame but not unethical. You're assuming that it's going to help you out but it could backfire. After all, dude could miss the kick that doesn't count and nail the second one. However, taking a pipe wrench to the other guys kicker is unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle2003 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Good strategy. I completely agree, if you think he will put up better numbers next week by all means do it. To stop someone from doing this next year, you should institue a weekly prize and total points prize, so the likelyhood of someone tanking would be mitigated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Actually, I hate to say this, but I did tank a game near the end of the season a number of years ago for almost that exact reason and I have regretted it ever since. Only because I feel like it really is almost a form of cheating. As it turns out, if I would've played straight up, I would've had a better ending to the season anyways. Don't do it. You'll always regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Good strategy. I completely agree, if you think he will put up better numbers next week by all means do it. To stop someone from doing this next year, you should institue a weekly prize and total points prize, so the likelyhood of someone tanking would be mitigated. Ah.... that works out fantastic. Do something questionable and then change the rules so no one else can do it later. I am impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Last week going into the Monday night game I needed 15 points from the PIT defense. I had already locked up the number 1 seed so the win or loss was meaningless to me. However, my arch rival desperately needed me to defeat my opponent to keep not only his playoff hopes alive but his quest for a three-peat. There is absolutely no way I could live with this guy if he wins a 3rd SB in a row ... it would be Armageddon. I had his fate in my hand ... I simply needed to bench PIT and take a zero in the Monday night game and his season was over. As much as I wanted him out of the playoffs I just don't like these kind of tactics. I just know if I do something like this that the team that gets into the playoffs in his place will be the one that knocks me out of the playoffs. I start what I believe to be my best lineup and let the chips fall where they may. PIT scored 22 points and I kept my arch rival in the hunt. This week he lost this week and is out of the playoffs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 A team tried to tank his game in my local this week: This was the final week of the regular season in my local. We have a small cash prize for the team that ends the season with the most points scored against ... kind of our token "we know you had a hard schedule". Going into the week the two leading teams for this category were playing each other. Team A had 20 more points against him than team B. Team A apparently decided his only chance at any prize money (being winless and out of the playoffs) was to win this category. So he started CHRIS HENRY TEN RB, leaving Adrian Peterson (CHI) on the bench. Had Team A started Adrian he likely wins his first game of the season after Tom Brady plays tonight ... but not by enough to lose total points against to Team B. One problem. Both Teams A & B stunk it up this week and the top team in the league went off again (scoring 60+ more points than Teams A and and his opponent will take the most points against category. Team A has had led in the most points against category ALL year ... until this week. After this week they will drop to third or fourth. He threw his game away for nothing and could have at least won one game for pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Misfit Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm in pretty much the exact same situation in one of my leagues -- four teams are set, I'm currently the #1 seed. We have three divisions, one division is very weak -- a sub-.500 team will make the playoffs -- while the wildcard team, which by definition is the #4 seed, is a very strong team. By contrast, in another league I am tied for the best record in the league, but the team I am tied with is in my division and he won the tiebreaker -- so, I end up being a number 3 seed with no bye (6 teams in the playoffs in this league), while the team that gets the #2 seed and the bye is 7-6 (I'm 10-3). So ... What is "ethical"? Ethics are not in a vacuum -- clearly, where you throw a game that negatively or positively impacts on another team, that's clearly wrong. But what if there no impact on another team, either financially or from a playoff standpoint? There are "unfair" outcomes simply created by the system itself (see my second example). I guess my point is this situation is in part set up by a rather aribtrary playoff system in which the team that should be the #2 seed is relegated to #4 seed by a rule involving playoff seedings and division winners. Is it still unethical to try to "correct" that by tanking a game? The number one seed should be playing the weakest team in the playoffs, should it not? The two best teams in the league should not be playing in the first round of the playoffs. (I doubt I will do it ... I fear the fantasy gods and mojo and all that stuff, too. But I don't see it as unethical to tank when it only effects playoff seeds, especially when those seeds are generally based on arbitrary rules involving division winners.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Its either ok to tank or its not. I don't buy the position that its ok as long as it only effects playoff seeding. What's the difference if the game that may be effected is in the playoffs as compared to the regular season? Furthermore, I think you need a rule to cover it. Are you really going to write a rule that its ok to intentionally attempt to throw a game? As far as the "NFL teams rest their starters" argument goes, I'll pay attention to it when: 1) the decision to start a player on you FF team effects the player's chances of being injured in the game that week or whether the player is rested the following game; and 2) you can demonstrate that the "non-stars" that do play in the game are trying to throw the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCharger Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I try and win each and every game. But I'm still aware of future matchups and I may root for or against my team any given week and I certainly wasn't mad I lost this week because the team I lost too is the next best team and they moved up to the number 2 seed and I won't see them week 1 of the playoffs. But I didn't tank it, I played my best players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle2003 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 It is your team and you need to do any and everything WITHIN THE RULES to put your team in the best possible situation to win the final goal, which is the Championship. You don't play13 / 14 weeks to just have it lost in the first round of the playoffs. Stay focused on the goals at hand and DO NOT deviate. Give yourself a better oppotunity to win. Be careful to study the other opponents whole lineup and match-ups prior to making a decision that could make or break your season. NOW GO TANK THE GAME AND WIN YOURSELF A CHAMPIONSHIP FOR GOD's SAKE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 It is your team and you need to do any and everything WITHIN THE RULES to put your team in the best possible situation to win the final goal, which is the Championship. It's always such a pleasure to play FF with wannabe lawyers. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. Kind of a microcosm of many of the problems in society today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Interesting responses on this - seems my position (which to clearly state was : "I think if I tank and lose, I may be in a better position to be int he championship game, and it has no impact on anything but who I play in the semifinals - is this right to do, cause right now I'm not sure") was about in the middle of the responses (the one response that stated "you know it's not right, you are just trying to make yourself feel better" was probably pretty close). I had decided to definitely not tank last night and play it out for three main reasons : 1) not right - don't do it - pretty simple 2) FF gods - whether they exist or not, no reason to f with it 3) I'm the commish and don't want to play games like this and then have to call someone on it later when it would have more impact Turns out the FF gods liked that decision - I had misread a previous weeks schedule and it turns out that me and the Brady team are actually locked into the 1 and 3 seeds regardless - whoever wins this week is 1 seed, whoever loses is 3 seed, and we can't meet until the championship if we both win. However, do think it was an interesting scenario you don't see often (impact of game is very limited, to nothing but playoff seed) - please continue discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Man... I hate the very idea of folk tossing a game for a better draft spot. It effects a lot more them them... and that is the biggest issue... on that note though... when Miami traded for Ricky... and it looked like their season was over... there was something that read like... if Ricky gets 1500 yards, Miami has to give another 1st round pick... I wondered to myself... what if they got to the one and Ricky took the ball and ran it 99 yards back to his own end zone?!?!? That've saved us some... in my league I have a rule where the second to last place team picks the logo/pic for the last place team for the following year. The team has to carry the logo/pic all year or until he beats the team who gave it to him... if the schedule happens to have them playing each other the following year (random as per MFL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tanking can be very beneficial to a team - especially entering the playoffs or jockeying for draft position in keeper or dynasty leagues. Tanking is never ethical, no matter what the reason. Man up & play the game the way it was designed. Tanking is for nancies. So, NFL Coaches who play their scrubs in the final week to rest their stars for the playoffs are Nancies? Agreed. YOU'RE A STARTER - GET IN THERE AND HIT SOMEONE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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