hooknladder Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 3836 32/12 is way better than solid.4035 28/13 is way better than solid with 20 fumbles??? the year he had 4,035 yds he was drafted 2nd QB off the board in many cases, and turned in 15 fumbles!! -solid @ best your siting his two best years. he's been referred to in this thread as "stellar" and "great"...that's hardly the case, and certainly not the perception. i guess alot of you guys will be taking him as QB1 since his career has been SO stellar....and here i thought i might get some late round value out of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Talk all you want about the talent of the other WR's, but the fact is, Palmer LOVED and trusted Houshmanzadeh. Now he has to find a new 3rd down guy to somehow keep drives alive. He doesn't trust Ochocinco anymore. Personally, I don't think he can even stand the guy. Those kinds of things have carried onto the field. I had both Ochocinco and Palmer on my keeper team from 05-07. I finally had to get rid of both of them so I could compete. For all their god-given talent, they just don't get the job done anymore. Palmer will have a couple huge games, but has far too many subpar games. I can't get a handful of 5 point games per year from my QB. I just can't. That gives me zero chance to be competetive. There are quite literally 20-25 QB's I would take first. Due to the beatings, the injuries, the media garbage, and playing for the Cincinnati Bungles, I think Palmer's career is right on the edge of fizzling, which his confidence did years ago. I am slightly more optimistic about Ochocinco, but I think the loss of TJ could kill him. Coles and Henry might be adequate, but they aren't exactly going to grab a lot of attention from opposing defenses. With Benson as the RB, teams are going to double and triple Ochocinco and make the others beat him. I don't see this offense returning to their high-flying days. I see more frustration, more lackluster games, and fantasy franchise killling football. Edited July 13, 2009 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 He doesn't trust Ochocinco anymore. Personally, I don't think he can even stand the guy. Seriously?? I can't imagine why. But regardless, he's good enough and with Coles on board, Henry at least a part-time threat until his next crime wave, and allegedly a new TE who can catch), I love Palmer as QB2, even borderline QB1, although I'd want a QB ranked similarly as insurance (ie not top guy but not bottom feeder either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ernie McCracken Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 At the very least, Carson still has issues with the elbow that kept him out last year according to John Clayton http://videos.espn.com/m/video/23336542/nf...amp;seek=44.199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 At the very least, Carson still has issues with the elbow that kept him out last year according to John Clayton http://videos.espn.com/m/video/23336542/nf...amp;seek=44.199 Dude - did you listen to it? "Carson Palmer looks fantastic" and "Set for a big year in 2009". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dude - did you listen to it? "Carson Palmer looks fantastic" and "Set for a big year in 2009". You know that you get under DMD's skin when he refers to you as "dude" in a post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ernie McCracken Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dude - did you listen to it? "Carson Palmer looks fantastic" and "Set for a big year in 2009". I heard him say that for sure and I do think he can have a great season. I also heard him say he still has a 25% tear in his elbow which doesn't sound great. I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but QB's with 25% tears in the nerve in the elbow of their throwing arm might make me look for another option or a solid backup. Sorry that John Clayton disagrees with your estimate of a 100% recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Palmers ADP was around 20...could'nt find Bulger, i suspect it was much lower...i'm sure someone has it. as i previously explained we deduct for all fumbles, also award for own FUMB recovered(discussed ad nauseum last year) ...so i'm not sure where he came out on that.(not even real sure about that NFL.com stat) however expectations were very high for Palmer in '06...MVP high; and i think his season was a bit of a let down for where he was drafted.(hardly "great") so the gyst of the thread is ...-could Palmer have '06 Bulger type value with an ADP in the low 80's? I don't recall expectations being that high. He wasn't even expected to be ready by opening day, considering he tore his knee up in the playoffs less than 9 months before the start of the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I'm a die-hard Bengals fan, and have been for as long as I can remember. That being the case, I will not get deep into this debate, because I'm obviously biast. I will say that Palmer depends on his O-Line more than most, especially after his gruesome injur in the '05 playoffs. He doesn't have good mobility, so he needs time to go through his reads. He's not going to buy time like a Roeth or Romo. If the O-Line is better then I could see a nice return on your investment if you get Palmer in the 7th or 8th this year. Edited July 13, 2009 by Capt. Stanky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sorry that John Clayton disagrees with your estimate of a 100% recovery. Please quote DMD's estimate of a 100% recovery. I looked but I couldn't find it. All I could find were statements that were completely in sync with Clayton's expectatiosn for Palmer this year. TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ernie McCracken Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Please quote DMD's estimate of a 100% recovery. I looked but I couldn't find it. All I could find were statements that were completely in sync with Clayton's expectatiosn for Palmer this year. TIA! From the free top 10 page http://www.thehuddle.com/x9/pre/rank-10qb.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ernie McCracken Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Please quote DMD's estimate of a 100% recovery. I looked but I couldn't find it. All I could find were statements that were completely in sync with Clayton's expectatiosn for Palmer this year. TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I don't recall expectations being that high. He wasn't even expected to be ready by opening day, considering he tore his knee up in the playoffs less than 9 months before the start of the regular season. ....ADP around 20....-that's high expectations everyone is getting caught up in the details... Palmers been a recent disappointment (if not most his career) and the point is he will not be drafted early ,(except apparently by some HUGH fans of his on this site) ,and could provide value with a return to form (like '05-'06((with better ball control))) Edited July 13, 2009 by hooknladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ....ADP around 20....-that's high expectations everyone is getting caught up in the details... Palmers been a recent disappointment (if not most his career) and the point is he will not be drafted early ,(except apparently by some HUGH fans of his on this site) ,and could provide value with a return to form (like '05-'06((with better ball control))) what mock site has him going 20th overall? or is that the 20th QB taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) what mock site has him going 20th overall? or is that the 20th QB taken? He's referring to the '06 season. 20 ADP still sounds a bit high to me. I'm a huge homer and even I wouldn't have taken him in the first 3 rounds in '06. Edited July 13, 2009 by Capt. Stanky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I already thanked you... TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 He's referring to the '06 season. 20 ADP still sounds a bit high to me. I'm a huge homer and even I wouldn't have taken him in the first 3 rounds in '06. thank-you Captain.... his ADP going into the season is widely available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 EVERYBODY knows stuff...here's what NFL.com knows: YEAR YDS TD/INT FUMB 2004 2897 18/18 2 2005 3836 32/12 5 (solid) 2006 4035 28/13 15 2007 4131 26/20 5 2008 731 3/4 2 hardly stellar. check out the fumbles. ONE solid year (2005). what i'm wondering is if he can return to that 2005 form with more yds and less fumbles to make him valuable @ his ADP for the 1st time in a long time. fumbles are an easy thing to fix. its coachable. a better oline shoud help as well. my league deducts for fumbles too, but you have to ask yourself... if the problem can be fixed, how many more yards and TDs would he have without those drive killers? Scott is going to help this team as much as Benson IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Talk all you want about the talent of the other WR's, but the fact is, Palmer LOVED and trusted Houshmanzadeh. I think Coles is better than Housh. They're both as tough as nails, but Coles can get the ball higher and makes some circus catches. I also thinks he's faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I think Coles is better than Housh. They're both as tough as nails, but Coles can get the ball higher and makes some circus catches. I also thinks he's faster. Houshmanzadeh is an absolute beast catching the football. Get it near him, he comes down with the ball. When do you see Coles go over the middle? Not neva! Not to mention 3rd downs and red zone. I like ya Jack, but this is a bit of a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Stanky Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Houshmanzadeh is an absolute beast catching the football. Get it near him, he comes down with the ball. When do you see Coles go over the middle? Not neva! Not to mention 3rd downs and red zone. I like ya Jack, but this is a bit of a stretch. I love Housh as a player. The dude is fearless. He plays much bigger than his listed 6'1" 200 lbs. indicates. I would have much rather seen the Bengals resign TJ and trade Chad this offseason. That being said, I'm excited to see what Coles can do with a Pro Bowl caliber QB. He's only had the likes of Pennington, Ramsey and old Favre. There's no doubt that their will be an adjustment period, but I don't think the Bengals will miss Housh that much. I am biast though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 EVERYBODY knows stuff...here's what NFL.com knows: YEAR YDS TD/INT FUMB 2004 2897 18/18 2 2005 3836 32/12 5 (solid) 2006 4035 28/13 15 2007 4131 26/20 5 2008 731 3/4 2 hardly stellar. check out the fumbles. ONE solid year (2005). what i'm wondering is if he can return to that 2005 form with more yds and less fumbles to make him valuable @ his ADP for the 1st time in a long time. If you are in a league that penalizes for all fumbles instead of only fumbles lost, you should propose a rule change. I wonder why you are automatically assigning 2006 numbers to Palmer's future performance. 2006 is called an outlier. What special circumstances happened in 2006 to cause 15 fumbles in one year when every other year is 5 or less? Hint: Look up, NFL player Eric Ghiaciuc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) If you are in a league that penalizes for all fumbles instead of only fumbles lost, you should propose a rule change. I wonder why you are automatically assigning 2006 numbers to Palmer's future performance. 2006 is called an outlier. What special circumstances happened in 2006 to cause 15 fumbles in one year when every other year is 5 or less? Hint: Look up, NFL player Eric Ghiaciuc. your post makes no sense. i guess you either did not read or do not understand the thread. maybe you should stick to those fascinating snapping turtle threads and leave the football discussion to others. Edited July 14, 2009 by hooknladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 your post makes no sense. i guess you either did not read or do not understand the thread. maybe you should stick to those fascinating snapping turtle threads and leave the football discussion to others. I guess you didn't get the hint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 I guess you didn't get the hint. good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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