Ray Rice arrested

[stethant]

More evidence of just how stupid this has become, the cartoon in the linked story, nobody has every been suspended for 16 games for their first offense of smoking Josh Gordon. But none of that cares, attention grabbing headlines and mass exaggeration is what people want these days.

 

http://www.cleveland...#incart_opinion

 

ETA Anybody have actual photo evidence of him knocking his wife out? All I've ever seen is the after video of her being dragged from an elevator. All this talk of how he punched her in the face and knocked her out is based on what?

 

I think what people want these days is for men to stop hitting women and to stop being violent towards women in general.

 

You pretty much never have video or photo evidence of domestic violence and yet cases are made, prosecuted, and people convicted every single day. This is not the Duke lacrosse team or a question of a Mike Tyson railroad job. This is about as cut and dry as it gets.

[rajncajn]

Not sure what you're basing that on. I guess you think you know me pretty well. I've stated many times I am not defending him, or saying it is ok to hit women. (It isn't ok for women to hit men, or men to hit each other, etc.)

 

I just think the NFL was lenient and gave their reasons. Other cases don't deserve leniency because of repeat offenders and past history. But alas nobody cares, he hit his fiance (knocked her out, punched her in the face and dragged her out the elevator).

 

Everybody is so affected by seeing the video they cannot think clearly. And of course you've still got a major issue with everything Goodell does so you'll pile on any issue that criticizes him.

 

I'm basing it on experience. Because every time I have something negative to say about the NFL or Goodell, you're there to try to discount anything I have to say by making it into a grudge against Goodell.

 

I'll pile on any issue where a man gets away with physically abusing a woman. And yes, I consider no jail time, no fines & a paltry 2 game suspension getting away with it and I'm 100% certain he feels the same way.

 

More evidence of just how stupid this has become, the cartoon in the linked story, nobody has every been suspended for 16 games for their first offense of smoking Josh Gordon. But none of that cares, attention grabbing headlines and mass exaggeration is what people want these days.

 

http://www.cleveland...#incart_opinion

 

ETA Anybody have actual photo evidence of him knocking his wife out? All I've ever seen is the after video of her being dragged from an elevator. All this talk of how he punched her in the face and knocked her out is based on what?

 

 

You say that you're not defending him and that it's not ok to hit women, but you certainly sound like a person who is trying to diminish or dismiss what he did to me.

Edited July 29, 2014 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

I think what people want these days is for men to stop hitting women and to stop being violent towards women in general.

 

You pretty much never have video or photo evidence of domestic violence and yet cases are made, prosecuted, and people convicted every single day. This is not the Duke lacrosse team or a question of a Mike Tyson railroad job. This is about as cut and dry as it gets.

 

I'd like all violence to stop, but trying to use this as an example of men not being punished enough for violence towards women seems bizarre. But its the NFL and people read and follow the stories so you so many reporters and talking head using it as a platform for this issue.

[stevegrab]

I'm basing it on experience. Because every time I have something negative to say about the NFL or Goodell, you're there to try to discount anything I have to say by making it into a grudge against Goodell.

 

I'll pile on any issue where a man gets away with physically abusing a woman. And yes, I consider no jail time, no fines & a paltry 2 game suspension getting away with it and I'm 100% certain he feels the same way.

 

 

 

You say that you're not defending him and that it's not ok to hit women, but you certainly sound like a person who is trying to diminish or dismiss what he did to me.

 

Well I'm not, I've said that over and over. I'm trying to say that his punishment of 2 games vs. Gordon's potential yearlong suspension is not the NFL saying hitting women is not as bad as smoking dope. The NFL is not condoning his action, they could have not suspended him at all if they wanted to. And I've yet to get any consensus from those in the public that are so outraged as to what would have been an appropriate punishment. It ranges from "more than 2 games" to "a full season" or even a lifetime ban.

 

Seriously to me it just seems like another chance for people that don't like Goodell and how he hands out punishment to complain (no I'm not talking about you specifically). And at the same time they can sound morally superior and talk about how hitting women is wrong.

 

Somebody posed this question on another forum. Say Rice was with a male friend of his, they were both drunk. His friend gets physical, Rice knocks him out and drags him out of the elevator. Criminal charges? NFL susension? Outrage over the lack of either? But since it was a woman, then its a major story.

 

If any of you ever met me in person you'd know pretty quickly that I hate violence. I'm not a violent person, and don't condone violence (except in self defense or response to violence). But I also don't like poor analogies and poorly drawn conclusions. (Whicn I feel are being made in this case.)

[rajncajn]

Well I'm not, I've said that over and over. I'm trying to say that his punishment of 2 games vs. Gordon's potential yearlong suspension is not the NFL saying hitting women is not as bad as smoking dope. The NFL is not condoning his action, they could have not suspended him at all if they wanted to. And I've yet to get any consensus from those in the public that are so outraged as to what would have been an appropriate punishment. It ranges from "more than 2 games" to "a full season" or even a lifetime ban.

And I'm saying that by giving Rice only 2 games that they really either don't care what he did or have no clue how to weigh actions vs punishments when it comes to non-structured incidents. When you compare his with other suspensions for first time offenses it's just plain stupid how all over the board they are. Haynesworth got 5 games for stomping a player. Terrell Pryor got 5 games for getting something for free in college. Cedric Benson got 3 games for punching a guy in a bar. So you mean to tell me that getting in a bar fight is worse than knocking your wife out cold? That's bullhonda.

Seriously to me it just seems like another chance for people that don't like Goodell and how he hands out punishment to complain (no I'm not talking about you specifically). And at the same time they can sound morally superior and talk about how hitting women is wrong

 

Somebody posed this question on another forum. Say Rice was with a male friend of his, they were both drunk. His friend gets physical, Rice knocks him out and drags him out of the elevator. Criminal charges? NFL susension? Outrage over the lack of either? But since it was a woman, then its a major story.

 

 

I didn't know Stephen A. Smith was a Huddler.

 

Take a 200lb man who's job description includes countless hours in a weight room, now line up another 200lb man and a 100lb woman and let him punch each of them in the face. Even take the same scenario where the two subjects are allowed to defend themselves. Now tell me, who is more likely to come away with the worse end of the deal?

 

OK, lets answer the ridiculous question. Rice gets in a fight with his male friend and knocks him out. No criminal charges, 2 game suspension by the league, outrage? Absolutely. Why is his suspension less than previous incidents? Then again, had this not been his now wife, we would be awaiting Rice's pending trial rather than debating over his lack of penalty.

Edited July 30, 2014 by rajncajn

[stethant]

OK, let's add a layer of complexity: there's video from a security camera in the elevator. Peter King alluded to this in a recent article but could not confirm the details. The part where he talks about this is towards the middle of the mailbag.

 

I think the reason Goodell went 2 games was because he saw the tape and thought the situation was more complicated than it first seemed. For me that's still a load of honda but I imagine there's more info here than we know about right now.

Edited July 30, 2014 by stethant

[rajncajn]

OK, let's add a layer of complexity: there's video from a security camera in the elevator. Peter King alluded to this in a recent article but could not confirm the details. The part where he talks about this is towards the middle of the mailbag.

 

I think the reason Goodell went 2 games was because he saw the tape and thought the situation was more complicated than it first seemed. For me that's still a load of honda but I imagine there's more info here than we know about right now.

 

I find it very likely that his GF probably started the altercation, but we're still talking about a 200+lb football player vs a 120lb(guess) woman. If it was an accidental elbow or she fell against the wall of the elevator, that's one thing & should have been brought to light considering what he's been accused of. But it's obvious to me that he punched her and knocked her out, otherwise he would have denied it and for that there is no excuse save protecting his life of that of another's. At his size and strength he should have no trouble controlling the woman without punching her or even taking whatever she has to dish out.

[stevegrab]

And now some US Senators are calling on the NFL to review their decision and punish Rice more harshly. I am so tired of this BS from members of Congress who have no desire to fix any problems in our country but plenty of time to speak out about hot button topics in hopes of getting more votes.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/01/senators-urge-goodell-to-reconsider-ray-rice-punishment/

[rajncajn]

And now some US Senators are calling on the NFL to review their decision and punish Rice more harshly. I am so tired of this BS from members of Congress who have no desire to fix any problems in our country but plenty of time to speak out about hot button topics in hopes of getting more votes.

 

http://profootballta...ice-punishment/

 

 

Something we can actually agree on.

[stevegrab]

Something we can actually agree on.

 

 

kumbaya

 

I'll give you another New Orleans is a great place to party.

 

PS What kind of bugs me with the whole "Rice suspension is unfair", nobody (including these idiot Senators) is talking about the criminal justice system, that gave him no punishment. Apparently that is ok, or not work ragging on endlessly. And then the comparisons to totally different issues (Gordon and other with the drug policy), where there are different guidelines and circumstances (repeat offender) involved.

Edited August 1, 2014 by stevegrab

[rajncajn]

kumbaya

 

I'll give you another New Orleans is a great place to party.

 

PS What kind of bugs me with the whole "Rice suspension is unfair", nobody (including these idiot Senators) is talking about the criminal justice system, that gave him no punishment. Apparently that is ok, or not work ragging on endlessly. And then the comparisons to totally different issues (Gordon and other with the drug policy), where there are different guidelines and circumstances (repeat offender) involved.

 

 

You keep hanging on the drug policy, but I've already pointed out better examples that are even more ridiculous. The media is just using another current suspension topic as a measuring stick. Here's a pretty good article from yesterday that pretty much outlines the way I feel about it.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/ray-rice-suspended-two-games-for-knocking-out-his-fiancee-072414

[stevegrab]

You keep hanging on the drug policy, but I've already pointed out better examples that are even more ridiculous. The media is just using another current suspension topic as a measuring stick. Here's a pretty good article from yesterday that pretty much outlines the way I feel about it.

 

http://www.foxsports...-fiancee-072414

 

The first thing I find wrong is he mentions "waiting for the courts to rule on RIce" then doesn't mention the courts did rule, and didn't punish him at all. No jail time, no fines, just a little intervention program. Where is the outrage over that, there is none. Just blast the NFL for getting it wrong. Nobody has been suspended for racial slurs, and I thought that was going to be a personal foul or some time of penalty during a game (hardly comparable to a suspension). And again he talks about the drug policy and completely ignores the repeat offender (3rd time) is the only one getting suspended for a year. And no that is not the same as hitting 8 women. If Rice beats his wife again, he will be suspended for more than 2 games.

 

Sorry its really just an incorrect way to view things IMHO. I may be in the vast minority, and not because I think hitting women is right and smoking pot is wrong (quite the opposite). Its just twisted and convoluted reasoning. As one poster said in another forum, "Why do people expect the NFL to punish Rice more severally than the criminal justice system. Would you be suspended or fired for this kind of action in your job?" (And most people would be fired if caught using any kind of illegal drug, usually the first time, not given multiple second chances.)

 

PS And apparently this guy thinks players using heroin and meth all off season should be ok, never mind their being illegal and dangerous to the player.

[rajncajn]

Sorry its really just an incorrect way to view things IMHO. I may be in the vast minority, and not because I think hitting women is right and smoking pot is wrong (quite the opposite). Its just twisted and convoluted reasoning. As one poster said in another forum, "Why do people expect the NFL to punish Rice more severally than the criminal justice system. Would you be suspended or fired for this kind of action in your job?" (And most people would be fired if caught using any kind of illegal drug, usually the first time, not given multiple second chances.)

 

 

Rice wasn't prosecuted more heavily because of the simple fact that they could not put his wife on the witness stand unless she chose to press charges. Why do you think they got married so quickly after it happened? As for your question of getting fired I think it depends on your employer, but I'm pretty certain that I probably would be looking for a job if I'd been video taped knocking my wife out.

 

Here's a list put together of suspensions handed out by Goodell, most of them that are not drug-related are all first time offenses.

 

https://twitter.com/jasonrmcintyre/status/493419571366223872/photo/1

[stevegrab]

Interesting list, is it every suspension, or ones picked to make the tweeter's point? Also not sure if they're all (or mostly) first time offenders, in fact I see some that are repeat offenders on the list.

 

And when I read the comments there of the people that agree with this my stupid meter goes off

Jordan Lovett‏@Jordan_LovettJul 27

@jasonrmcintyre @SI_DougFarrar @JasonLisk did u know that getting drunk and killing a pedestrian is only 4 times worse than smoking a joint?

 

Oh well, doubt I'm going to convince you or anybody else on this. Goodell has issued another explanation today. I'd ask you keep and open mind and read it, but I'm not sure if that is possible. People are hell bent on bashing Goodell, if it wasn't the Ray Rice suspension it would be something else. Like the Gordon suspension being stupid because pot isn't a PED, and its legal in two states with NFL teams, and a bunch of other nonsense.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000372634/article/roger-goodell-defends-ray-rice-suspension

 

One more time I'll ask, what would have been the proper suspension for Rice. 4-8-16 games, maybe a lifetime?

 

Would your employer really fire you for domestic violence? Under what grounds?

[rajncajn]

Interesting list, is it every suspension, or ones picked to make the tweeter's point? Also not sure if they're all (or mostly) first time offenders, in fact I see some that are repeat offenders on the list.

 

How about you do some of your own homework for a change instead of throwing out whatif statements to try to cast some doubt on what I've posted. There are several cases that I've given you already of lengthier suspensions for first-time offenders with what most would consider much lesser offenses.

 

And when I read the comments there of the people that agree with this my stupid meter goes off

Jordan Lovett‏@Jordan_LovettJul 27

@jasonrmcintyre @SI_DougFarrar @JasonLisk did u know that getting drunk and killing a pedestrian is only 4 times worse than smoking a joint?

Because the comments section is where you ALWAYS fine the most intelligent, insightful posts.

 

Oh well, doubt I'm going to convince you or anybody else on this. Goodell has issued another explanation today. I'd ask you keep and open mind and read it, but I'm not sure if that is possible. People are hell bent on bashing Goodell, if it wasn't the Ray Rice suspension it would be something else. Like the Gordon suspension being stupid because pot isn't a PED, and its legal in two states with NFL teams, and a bunch of other nonsense.

http://www.nfl.com/n...rice-suspension

 

You're asking me to have an open mind about a guy who punched his wife in the face... You, who's automatic assumption every time I post something negative about the NFL that it's because of a bias against Goodell. Despite the fact that the vast majority of people happen to agree with me. No, it could have very little to do with the fact that I find abuse on women extremely deplorable. It MUST be because I hate Goodell. You have no idea how insulting that is.

 

One more time I'll ask, what would have been the proper suspension for Rice. 4-8-16 games, maybe a lifetime?

 

Would your employer really fire you for domestic violence? Under what grounds?

 

 

I didn't know you were asking me. You said that you hadn't seen any media people offer a proper suspension. I'm not sure what difference that would make if someone did say how long it should be. More than two games, how about that? I figured it would be between 6-8 games, but what the hell do I know? I thought that was what Sean Payton should have gotten when he got suspended as well so my guess is pretty much crap.

 

As far as my employer firing me, I honestly don't know if they would fire me or not. I know they wouldn't want me working there anymore. But Rice didn't get fired either, so it's pretty much a moot point.