rattsass Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 To be clear, I don't think that the sites should be shut down. I am certainly no fan of the Nanny Government. That said, these guys should be regulated similar to casinos. A little disclosure about what you are up against in terms of big players using algorithms is in order IMO. And I still have my doubts about the employee who won that big prize - I am not convinced that he didn't have an unfair advantage just because Fan Duel says so. The algorithms should not really be a surprise to experienced players. I played in a keeper and dynasty leagues for years. There were different champions, but for the most part, you had the same group of guys in contention most of the time. This is the same thing on a larger scale. I think a lot of people that have played the games with no success, are probably playing the huge contests with thousands of entrants. The larger the pool, the higher the winning scores will be. In these cases, the contests DO become lottery-like, and as such, a horrible proposition. Especially for the uninitiated. The stats cited for winners is not a surprise at all to me. As a matter of fact, if the net winners stat was higher than it is, one could conclude that it actually IS a game of chance. We all know that is simply not true. I will grant you, the commercials they blasted endlessly last year would lead you to believe that it is easy to win, and everybody can win, yada yada yada. A little disingenuous to be sure. But if we strung up every entity that spewed BS in their advertising, the free enterprise system would collapse in short order. I do not know the individuals that run the companies. I cannot say with certainty that everything is above board, and the contests are 100% clear of any nefarious activity. But I want proof that there was a crime committed before we destroy them. I'll be waiting..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2015 was the 3rd year that I have been successfully playing DFS. I have down weeks and up weeks, but have remained marginally profitable year over year. I have done this largely by playing H2H and 50/50 contests with a small percentage of GPP's thrown in. This season however, I have noticed that it has become increasingly difficult to cash. I have had plenty of weeks where my team gives me a solid performance and I finish just below the cash line. The H2H's help diversify that, but entering all of those contests is a pain in the ass. It got to the point where there was just WAY too much work involved just to break even. Maybe it was just a run of bad luck, maybe there are just more entries that are the product of tools that I don't have at my disposal, maybe everyone is just getting that much sharper. I am just a guy with a spreadsheet and (I think) a good eye for fantasy matchups. I was plenty aware of the algorithm guys, but that is because I listen to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of content. The average fan has no idea about that $hit. Draftkings and Fanduel definitely push the message that you are playing against other users who are just like you. When you walk into a casino, you know that the house always wins. People need to realize that you are actually up against something more similar to 'the house' when you play DFS. Like I said, I am not advocating tearing down the service providers, but there have been some events that definitely fall under the umbrella of 'shady' and could potentially skew towards 'nefarious'. With hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars at stake, I have a really hard time understanding why anyone wouldn't want to see some better regulation of the industry. I don't care if you call it gambling or a game of skill or whatever. It takes skill to win at poker. It takes skill to win at DFS. It also takes some luck to win at both. Either way, I have no qualms with gambling of any kind (it should be legal everywhere), but I do take great issue with someone tampering with the odds involved in my gambling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well, if Draftkings and Fanduel is gambling and should be regulated as such, I fail to see why ALL fantasy games do not fall under the same umbrella, therefore the same scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well, if Draftkings and Fanduel is gambling and should be regulated as such, I fail to see why ALL fantasy games do not fall under the same umbrella, therefore the same scrutiny. Because you can't play season long fantasy like a Wall Street Quant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 All this conversation behind the backdrop of a nation who has wagered close to 2 billion dollars on a powerball ticket for tomorrow. I'm glad Big Brother is looking out for us for sure. God Bless America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 All this conversation behind the backdrop of a nation who has wagered close to 2 billion dollars on a powerball ticket for tomorrow. I'm glad Big Brother is looking out for us for sure. God Bless America. The lottery is whole conversation in and of itself. It is not really even remotely comparable to any form of fantasy sports and is barely comparable to casino gambling outside of the slots. It is pure, 100% dumb luck and is a governmental money grab. I don't see how continuing to bring it up adds anything to a discussion of whether or not there is corruption in DFS and how to deal with it so that it doesn't become the downfall of the entire industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) The lottery is whole conversation in and of itself. It is not really even remotely comparable to any form of fantasy sports and is barely comparable to casino gambling outside of the slots. It is pure, 100% dumb luck and is a governmental money grab. I don't see how continuing to bring it up adds anything to a discussion of whether or not there is corruption in DFS and how to deal with it so that it doesn't become the downfall of the entire industry. because its legal while games that can take varying levels of skill such as DFS, poker and even blackjack (assuming you use a "system") are, for the most part, illegal outside of casinos. Essentially it is the govt thumbing it's nose by taxing people who don't understand math and odds while banning and/or regulating something similar that, with some work and effort, people could actually win at rather than sitting back and hoping the lottery lighting bolt happens to hit them. Edited January 8, 2016 by Zooty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 because its legal while games that can take varying levels of skill such as DFS, poker and even blackjack (assuming you use a "system") are, for the most part, illegal outside of casinos. Essentially it is the govt thumbing it's nose by taxing people who don't understand math and odds while banning and/or regulating something similar that, with some work and effort, people could actually win at rather than sitting back and hoping the lottery lighting bolt happens to hit them. I'm not disagreeing with that, but this isn't a lottery discussion. Repeatedly invoking it detracts from the discussion of what is going on behind the scenes at Draftkings and Fanduel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm not disagreeing with that, but this isn't a lottery discussion. Repeatedly invoking it detracts from the discussion of what is going on behind the scenes at Draftkings and Fanduel. It is hard to have a discussion about the govt deeming certain forms of gambling illegal while one of the worst offenders of duping unsuspecting people is the lottery that is run by the govt. It will be brought it, it is unavoidable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It is hard to have a discussion about the govt deeming certain forms of gambling illegal while one of the worst offenders of duping unsuspecting people is the lottery that is run by the govt. It will be brought it, it is unavoidable But it is still meaningless and adds nothing to the conversation. This whole "lottery is a tax on the dumb" has always been amusing to me. I'm pretty sure almost everybody playing the lottery knows their odds are very small of winning. But the draw of winning millions for a few bucks is huge, and they're not getting those odds at the casino, or have no legal gamblng available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 But it is still meaningless and adds nothing to the conversation. This whole "lottery is a tax on the dumb" has always been amusing to me. I'm pretty sure almost everybody playing the lottery knows their odds are very small of winning. But the draw of winning millions for a few bucks is huge, and they're not getting those odds at the casino, or have no legal gamblng available. Spend some time in a convince store and watch the people who spend $20 a day, every day on scratch-offs and 3 number lotteries. The daily suckers aren't playing a dollar or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It is hard to have a discussion about the govt deeming certain forms of gambling illegal while one of the worst offenders of duping unsuspecting people is the lottery that is run by the govt. It will be brought it, it is unavoidable I guess so. I have repeatedly said that I don't think that DFS should be outlawed, but it needs to be more transparent in its operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Spend some time in a convince store and watch the people who spend $20 a day, every day on scratch-offs and 3 number lotteries. The daily suckers aren't playing a dollar or two. My point isn't how much they spend, its that they know their odds are low. Yep they are suckers, and they waste a lot of money on it that could go towards better things. But I doubt many are under the illusion that they have good odds of winning. Those who play so regularly and so much have a gambling/addiction issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin_Akie Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I guess so. I have repeatedly said that I don't think that DFS should be outlawed, but it needs to be more transparent in its operation. The sort of rumours about underhand things going on at DFS sites reminds me of the same thing that happened with online poker before the crackdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I guess so. I have repeatedly said that I don't think that DFS should be outlawed, but it needs to be more transparent in its operation. on that I agree. And multi-entry and scripts should not be allowed My point isn't how much they spend, its that they know their odds are low. Yep they are suckers, and they waste a lot of money on it that could go towards better things. But I doubt many are under the illusion that they have good odds of winning. Those who play so regularly and so much have a gambling/addiction issue. You haven't actually talked to many of these people have you? You be surprised on how many think they are going to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My point isn't how much they spend, its that they know their odds are low. Yep they are suckers, and they waste a lot of money on it that could go towards better things. But I doubt many are under the illusion that they have good odds of winning. Those who play so regularly and so much have a gambling/addiction issue. I'm totally dropping $20 on this Powerball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm totally dropping $20 on this Powerball. That's too much. I only paid $10 yesterday and $10 today - and maybe $10 tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 You haven't actually talked to many of these people have you? You be surprised on how many think they are going to win. Nope I don't frequent convenience stores or talk to the strangers in them. You may be right, but the whole "its a tax on stupid people" expression has always sounded dumb to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Nope I don't frequent convenience stores or talk to the strangers in them. You may be right, but the whole "its a tax on stupid people" expression has always sounded dumb to me. well if you consider the demographic of people who buy them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 well if you consider the demographic of people who buy them..... Way more stupid people than those buying lottery tickets. And not all buyers are stupid. We used to have a group at work who played the bug jackpots, and most of us were not stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Way more stupid people than those buying lottery tickets. And not all buyers are stupid. We used to have a group at work who played the bug jackpots, and most of us were not stupid. you don't get my point but I'm not surprised. I'm talking about the people who buy them daily, not just for pools and big jackpots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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