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Dbaxx

Moss!

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Yes, but the Vikings did so well last year when Moss was injured? :D

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You bet the Vikes miss Moss and his talent. Oakland, however, doesn't seem to be able to win any games with him. Wonder how long their joy will last.

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At the ed of the game yesterday they didn't throw any jump balls to him, I guess using him as a decoy. They'll figure it out.

 

Throw it up at least once in the corner of the endzone!

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Of course, the Vikings offense misses Moss. What offense wouldn't? That is a completely different story than saying they are a better team overall WITH him. I am shaking my head on how they could offensively be this bad. I think the loss of Moss is having an effect, but you cannot ignore that he played what, 5 games last season and the offense was top notch all year long. I am going to go back and study those games and see what happened there. People are ripping Burleson and saying he didn't show up yesterday and apparently they think he is not very good. The man sprained a knee in the first quarter and did not play again. He may have come in later on in the game (I did not get to watch it), but a wideout with a sprained knee is not really measurable, is he? That's either a misinformed commentary, or just plain wrong. Burleson led the league in yards after the catch last season with Moss missing 11 games. Yards after the catch is something that shows a player has real talent, and it cannot be blamed on Moss grabbing extra coverage when he missed 11 games!

 

It's really pretty simple if you look at the facts. The offensive coordinator is not doing a good job. He also is handling the offensive line duties, which is too much to handle when there are constantly shuffling personnel due to injuries and rookies. That, and he simply does not look like he has a grasp on anything.

 

I agree with the assessment of Cottrell, too. The coordinators apparently are bad (possibly horrible) and the head coach is not capable of running the show. This team is getting embarrassed due to inadequate coaching and the complete lack of adjusting to situations. I also think Daunte is having trouble reading defenses, which is a surprise to me.

 

To blame it on Moss being gone just does not add up to the answer. It's an easy thing to say, but a wide receiver cannot cause complete team success, or failure. Especially when he misses the majority of a successful team's games.

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It's pretty obvious any of you numbnuts who claim Randy drew the defenders away from the other wrs so they would be open more often, didn't watch yesterdays game. The announcers yesterday showed replay after replay and droned on and on, how wide open the Vikes wrs were and Culpepper just wasn't seeing them.

 

The Vikes O-line sucks and Culpepper is blind. :D That has nothing to do with Moss there or not.

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I guess some people are actually realizing that Moss draws 3/4ths of the defense on him and still scores. Yet TO is left in almost man coverage all night against a 2nd year CB in Atlanta and can't score.

 

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let's see Moss score when he has to piggyback an opposing CB all game...

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To me, the Raiders offense looked disjointed, but they were running the ball effectively. They are now 0-2 with Moss, and I saw the look on Moss' face when Collins overthrew him on that one pass. Also, he was doing his typical hand up calling for the ball on every play. This will turn into him getting negatively vocal, and pouting. The Raiders were a bad team without Moss. With him, they are not winning. He will get tired of losing, and cause trouble. We've seen before how poorly Turner handles a team that's not winning. You can have Mr. Moss. The Vikings have many problems, but they can probably be changed by moving to a quality coaching staff with the talent they have on that roster. When that happens, is anyone's guess. As bad as they have been - and that's really, really bad - they are one game out in a terrible division. Should be a strange trip this year.

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Would this be an appropriate time to bring up the fact that Porter has better stats than Burleson?   :D

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:D

I think it's far, far, far too early for me to hang my hat on my call of Porter being better draft value than Burleson and quite possibly out producing him this year. There's 14 more games yet to be played.

 

For those who don't know what Jimmy Neutron is referring to, DMD & me went mano` eh mano` in our now epic & lengendary Huddle thread Porter v. Burleson, Which do you take? where I did predict Porter would be the better value pick.

 

I got pooh poohed on it then, but for these past two games at least, I am vindicated...especially when you consider that Porter is still playing through the lingering effects of a bad hammy and what round you could've gotten Porter in ~ vs ~ what round it likely took to get Burleson.

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Can we please get off of the Raiders are 0-2 with Moss. They have no D and will win 5 or 6 games tops all year. And while Moss will clearly be a pain he will still produce. Even when the Vikes weren't winning he still put up big #'s. The way the Raiders used Moss last night was a joke. How do you not throw to him even once on that last drive? How do you not throw him even 1 pass in the EZ late in the game? Personally I think Collins has had it drilled into his head not to make mistakes and he's going too far IMO. As I've said in here already the 1 long ball they threw him all game was a TD. And the 1 fade they threw hi all game was a TD (bad penalty I believe). Anyway I think they used him very poorly last night.

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:D

I think it's far, far, far too early for me to hang my hat on my call of Porter being better draft value than Burleson and quite possibly out producing him this year. There's 14 more games yet to be played.

 

For those who don't know what Jimmy Neutron is referring to, DMD & me went mano` eh mano` in our now epic & lengendary Huddle  thread Porter v. Burleson, Which do you take? where I did predict Porter would be the better value pick.

 

I got pooh poohed on it then, but for these past two games at least, I am vindicated...especially when you consider that Porter is still playing through the lingering effects of a bad hammy and what round you could've gotten Porter in ~ vs ~ what round it likely took to get Burleson.

 

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not to mention Burleson got manhandled by D O'neal for an int that Burleson should have taken....and Moss usually would have grabbed....of course, we aren't comparing Burleson to Moss....and never will....

 

But it appears the Vikings need someone to jumpstart the offense for them to even know what it's like to be good, let alone win or be productive....

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It's pretty obvious any of you numbnuts who claim Randy drew the defenders away from the other wrs so they would be open more often, didn't watch yesterdays game. The announcers yesterday showed replay after replay and droned on and on, how wide open the Vikes wrs were and Culpepper just wasn't seeing them.

 

The Vikes O-line sucks and Culpepper is blind. :D  That has nothing to do with Moss there or not.

 

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So you are saying that Moss doesnt create better passing opps by drawing more attention?

 

If you watched last nights game i thought it was pretty obvious that Moss was getting alot of attention-- much to the benefit of Porter.

 

As far as CPep goes in his game yesterday-- maybe he is just overated.... there were a lot of open receivers that he missed. Hell even in the blowout -- with a soft D he sucked.

 

Randy left and i am thinking his numbers stay about the same-- we'll see where CPeps are at the end of the year.

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It is only two games into the season, but the other aspect of this debate is that Collins does look a lot better then Culpepper so far. :D

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It is only two games into the season, but the other aspect of this debate is that Collins does look a lot better then Culpepper so far.   :D

 

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Culpepper: 1st round pick

Collins: 6th round pick

watching Culpepper throw 8 INT's in 2 games: priceless

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I mistakenly typed in that Moss missed 11 games last season, when I meant to say he played in 11 - missing 5. I think we're all a little "off" up here right now...lol.

 

Studying the "Moss effect" last season:

 

Games WITH Moss: Record of 6-5, average points per game were 26.4.

Games without Moss: Record of 2-3, average points per game were 22.8.

 

The numbers above are expected...the offense is some better with Moss. the numbers point to about a FG missing with Moss missing from last season's games. Not the complete picture, but a study-able reference.

 

Games without Linehan, featuring Loney pulling double duty as offensive coordinator and offensive line coach: Record of 0-2, average points per game are 10.5. Average points per game not counting Sharper's return for a TD are 7.0.

 

The other possible problem for Culpepper is that Linehan was also the QB's coach and was a real mentor for Culpepper. That mentor is gone, and so, apparently is Culpeppers confidence and performance level.

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weren't there several games last year where moss just lined up, but didn't catch a pass? just having the guy on the field is an asset. last night just came down to the raiders D needing to make a few key stops, and they couldn't do it. the raiders offense was strong and the call back of the moss TD was bogus.

 

and as far as moss calling for the ball - that's a guy trying to win. he knows he can beat his man, so he calls for the ball. if collins would have thrown a few more his way, it might have put the raiders over the top. the guy makes plays. just throw the ball to his vicinity and he will go get it.

 

my amazement continues as the vikings fans still seem so reluctant to just say, 'darn man, we miss moss.' at least this week we have some, "ok, i have to admit it, the offense was a little better with moss ..."

 

that's progress, i guess.

 

tony

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That was the steal of the century for the Raiders...

 

I mean, look at their record, it's way better than the Vikings..

 

oh wait...

 

 

 

listen morans, the Vikings are changing their identity from a high powered offense to a solid defense...Defense it what wins championships...

 

this move had to be made and although it looks bad now, talk to me in a few years when the defense allows them to win the Super bowl and not lose games 31-28...

 

Moss wil NEVER win a championship anywhere...

 

period..

 

ps - I think they miss an actual offensive coordinator most...

 

:D

Edited by alexgaddis

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Although the performance of the team in the first two games makes anything Purple difficult to defend, I will stick to my guns. Tony, I never once said the Vikings offense would be better without Moss. In fact, I have said that it was better with him. There are a lot of factors that have put this team in the disarray it is now, and I think most people in the same situations would point to coaching as being the major issue in a team's success, failure, or at least basic level of performance. I showed in the numbers that there wasn't a huge difference in offensive output last season with Moss out of the lineup. In fact, in a couple of the games where Moss played you are correct, he had little to no effect. I watched the games where he was out the to start those games, and he had ZERO real effect. He limped around, took a few ginger-steps, and the defense QUICKLY realized that he was not a factor. For those that watched those games, it was laughable and ridiculed.

 

Moss calling for the ball on every passing play is a guy trying to win? So, all the other receivers in the league that don't do that aren't trying to win? Please...it's a man who thinks he is above the game. He is a special talent, yes. Should Collins have thrown the ball up to him more than he did? Yes. Will he start pouting and mouth off if Collins doesn't do that? Yes. The thing is...Norv Turner fancies himself as an offensive genius and will not stand for a player calling him out, which is exactly what Moss will do if the Raiders continue to lose games. Moss will make plays other receivers won't. He will also get flagged for pushing off as often as he benefits from the contact he usually creates. He will also take plays off, which will hurt the offense. Did you see the look on his face towards the end of that game? It's going to get progressively worse unless they can turn it around. It may take a few games, but it will happen.

 

I'm not reluctant to say that I miss what the Happy Moss can bring to the table. I miss those big plays...I wore my #84 jersey most game days and jumped and screamed when he made those amazing plays. I also have never experienced real winning with Moss, and have experienced embarrassment because of his antics and comments. I am overall STILL much happier with the current roster, but need to see new coaching to take advantage of it. The Linehan departure is a bigger overall loss from everything I can see than the Moss loss.

 

We shall see.

 

All that being said...I am impressed with your Bengals squad. They look like a team to be reckoned with this season. Enjoy it, you deserve it.

Edited by Chadman

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"hear that Bengal growling, mean and angry

see that Bengal prowling, lean and hungry

an offensive brute, run, pass, or boot

and defensively, he's rough errrr tough errrr

Cincinnati Bengals that's the team were gonna cheer to victory

Touchdown Bengals!!

put some points up on the board and win a game for Cincinnati!"

 

(it's better with music)

 

more power to you chadman. you are right about needing new coaching - tice needs to take a hike. i don't know how a team turns it around after a start like this. everyone has to be shaken. at least they now get a home game, even if they have to play against the other "america's team."

 

tony

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weren't there several games last year where moss just lined up, but didn't catch a pass?  just having the guy on the field is an asset. 

tony

 

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Bingo. Even a gimpy Moss draws the full attention of a cornerback and a safety. When he's healthy, he gets more attention than that. Anyone that argues Moss doesn't soften up a defense for other players is stupid. :D

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