tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Wow! "Blacks" would still be sitting in the back of the bus if we lived in your world. Laws is laws. yes, in this case we risk free americans being prosperous. i'm willing to roll the dice here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 in other news, did anyone else find it weird that obama was interrupted by occupiers when attempting to give a speech about cutting people's taxes? is this some bizarre clash of the tea party and OWS movements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 yes, in this case we risk free americans being prosperous. i'm willing to roll the dice here. Hippie protests aren't standing in the way of my prosperity. But thanks for your concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hippie protests aren't standing in the way of my prosperity. But thanks for your concern. they are trying to. as a lawyer, you are probably close to that 1%. own any stocks? my point is that by shutting these people up, the worst that can happen is that markets stay free and people can still obtain wealth through investing in those markets. sounds OK to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 freedom of assembly ≠ freedom of venue if you're not supposed to be somewhere and a cop tells you to move, this has ceased being a first amendment issue. Exactly. So the police are acting against the first amendment and they had no right to have these people disperse??? These people were breaking the law and I would bet a good amount of money they actually knew and wanted to get pepper sprayed to get this exact reaction from a good amount of people who don't understand that actions have consequences. This world is going down the crapper. I am just happy that we have enough rich people to take care of all the whiny beotches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathpig Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Since we have lawyer-y type people here, maybe one can explain where peaceful assembly stops and disorderly conduct begins? http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0240.20_240.20.html 1, 3, 5, and 6 (and maybe 7 depending on what acts that applies to) seem to easily apply to the OWS protesters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 they are trying to. as a lawyer, you are probably close to that 1%. own any stocks? my point is that by shutting these people up, the worst that can happen is that markets stay free and people can still obtain wealth through investing in those markets. sounds OK to me. No, the worst thing that can happen is that we undercut inalienable rights of the downtrodden for the hollow goal of making rich people richer. Apparently you suck at being a Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 freedom of assembly ≠ freedom of venue if you're not supposed to be somewhere and a cop tells you to move, this has ceased being a first amendment issue. That's an entirely different argument than "if a cop tells you to move, you move". Although you'd need to modify it to "if you're not legally supposed to be somewhere". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 yes, in this case we risk free americans being prosperous. i'm willing to roll the dice here. These free Americans? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs or these free Americans? http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?d...e+united+states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Cops lose a truck and the guy's possessions inside, after stopping the driver because they don't care what the 4th admendment says. But last Thursday morning—the morning of Occupy Wall Street's big day of action—Stoeckly was pulled over on Broadway and Cedar Street near Zuccotti Park. The cops used the fact that his license plate was crooked, and that he turned on his windshield wipers without his lights as pretense to pull him over, Stoeckley told us in a phone interview. (New York law requires drivers to use headlights "whenever you are using your windshield wipers to clear rain, snow, sleet, etc.") Police demanded to search the vehicle, and when Stoeckley refuse they arrested him for "Obstructing Governmental Administration." Stoeckley's lawyer, Wiley Stecklow, said he's concerned Stoeckly was arrested "unlawfully," simply for "refusing to consent to a search." http://gawker.com/5861916/nypd-loses-the-o...wikileaks-truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 if it is determined that the cops used excessive force, by all means reprimand them. i'm not saying that they could have been wrong ... i'm saying nobody really cares that much and this will be dealt with and forgotten. michael moore likening this to tiananmen square just shows how ridiculous this is becoming. they at least were openly protesting corruption ... OWSers are protesting success and free markets!trying to create a scenario where these noble and high minded protesters who are exercising their first amendment rights in the name of freedom and higher ideas are being brutalized and that somehow will energize this "movement" is just a joke. linking it to this is an insult for those the first amendment was truly designed to protect, and by and large, the american people will move on with their lives after this because there is no substance here. what do they represent again? do you have to actually understand the cause for the first amendment to be at play or can you just hang out wherever you want to? and no one is stopping them, just asking them to follow the law and not disrupt those trying to educate themselves or go to work. these questions are valid to ask ... Who's doing that? You don't get it. When that craptastic hillsboro baptist church does it's "God Kills Gays" thing, it's the exact same thing: it's protected speech. You don't like it, but there it is. And OWS doesn't have my support when it is against 'free markets' but it does have my support in ideas that filling mortgage backed securities with loans they know will fail, and selling it to someone who doesn't know they sabotaged it by intentionally picking the misleadingly rated loans most likely to default is not 'free makret' nor legitimate 'profits' - it's criminal and that what a lot of this is about, but gets lost when dudes chit on cop cars. It is not ,however, lost upon me that those of you riled up by the guy chitting on the cop car argued in favor of chitting on cop pensions in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 That's an entirely different argument than "if a cop tells you to move, you move". Although you'd need to modify it to "if you're not legally supposed to be somewhere". yes, i was for supporting mindless police brutality. way to dissect the language super sleuth. you are not this dense, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Who's doing that? You don't get it. When that craptastic hillsboro baptist church does it's "God Kills Gays" thing, it's the exact same thing: it's protected speech. You don't like it, but there it is. And OWS doesn't have my support when it is against 'free markets' but it does have my support in ideas that filling mortgage backed securities with loans they know will fail, and selling it to someone who doesn't know they sabotaged it by intentionally picking the misleadingly rated loans most likely to default is not 'free makret' nor legitimate 'profits' - it's criminal and that what a lot of this is about, but gets lost when dudes chit on cop cars. i'm for the police using whatever means they need to get their job done. they put their lives on the line every day protecting innocent people from psychos and i don't blame them if they aren't in the mood to vietnam - is it a country or a way of life? around with people who want to push their buttons and not obey the law. and is that what you believe they are protesting? if so, what does that have to do with the 1% argument? they are first and foremost against the inequality in the distribution of wealth. they then are pretty much broadly against "banks", seemingly all banks. many people who work in banks are good people ... and we need banks. the jackholes coming up with unstable investment packages based on shaky loans should have been left for dead, imo. i would protest them, and government for bailing them out. but shaky investment practices certainly doesn't seem to be the theme of this movement. if so, why would wall street be at the center? are our young people really this passionate about mortgage back securities? how do you tie that to protesting tuition increases? they are all over the place. to that end, let them assemble to do whatever it is they are doing, but hey, obey the police. and certainly don't martyr yourself like you are representing some great cause ... especially when you can't even coherently state your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 No, the worst thing that can happen is that we undercut inalienable rights of the downtrodden for the hollow goal of making rich people richer. Apparently you suck at being a Christian. please, crack open a beer, will ya? inalienable rights of the downtrodden? who exactly is keeping anyone down here? god help these people if a real crisis were to hit. and the desire to be successful is what built america. we have to get out of our minds that rich people are bad because they are not. most are good people who give of their wealth and help others and their communities. not to mention that they grow businesses and create jobs. criticizing this element equates to jealousy and laziness. again, show me they are corrupt and i'm all for taking them down, but to create a movement based on the fact that you are not successful in the land of opportunity pretty much means you don't want to try. not sure how this movement will ever be successful ... do they expect people to just give them money? and while i'm trying, i'd agree that i suck at being a christian ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Was the force necessary to forwarding a lawful governmental goal, or was it punitive and administered without due process? Agree or disagree with their stance, motives, methods or objectives nothing (or very little at least with a few notable exceptions that are hopefully attributable to rogue persons or elements) that has happened thus far in this whole matter can justify ignoring the Constitution. Government needs to stop and think here. Its agents need to remember their oath was not to protect and defend a politicain, an administration, or a party, but to protect and defend the constitution which reserves to the citizens all rights not specifically confered upon the government. Edited November 23, 2011 by Ditkaless Wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 How many posts has ton made in the last several hours on a topic that "people don't give a sh*t about" in the real world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) and while i'm trying, i'd agree that i suck at being a christian ... Empathy really isn't that hard to learn, it's usually genetic. Edited November 23, 2011 by evil_gop_liars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 sorry, but a cop says move, you move. yup they did they in some European countries in the 30's. did not work out so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 i'm for the police using whatever means they need to get their job done. they put their lives on the line every day protecting innocent people from psychos and i don't blame them if they aren't in the mood to vietnam - is it a country or a way of life? around with people who want to push their buttons and not obey the law. and is that what you believe they are protesting? if so, what does that have to do with the 1% argument? they are first and foremost against the inequality in the distribution of wealth. they then are pretty much broadly against "banks", seemingly all banks. many people who work in banks are good people ... and we need banks. the jackholes coming up with unstable investment packages based on shaky loans should have been left for dead, imo. i would protest them, and government for bailing them out. but shaky investment practices certainly doesn't seem to be the theme of this movement. if so, why would wall street be at the center? are our young people really this passionate about mortgage back securities? how do you tie that to protesting tuition increases? they are all over the place. to that end, let them assemble to do whatever it is they are doing, but hey, obey the police. and certainly don't martyr yourself like you are representing some great cause ... especially when you can't even coherently state your case. Yep. You don't get it. Doesn't matter what they're saying, when they're peacefully saying it, the police are way out of line to walk down a line of prostate students shooting pepper spray. Shaky investment practices are a theme of the movement, and because of that Wall Street is the center. Were you paying attention since mid 2008? Again ton, you come of as implying if you agreed with them you'd have a problem with that, and that's just wrong. You like throwing around questions, so here's one for ya: who decides what is a 'worthy' cause when it comes to deciding what the first amendment was 'truly designed to protect' - who makes that decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yep. You don't get it. Doesn't matter what they're saying, when they're peacefully saying it, the police are way out of line to walk down a line of prostate students shooting pepper spray. Shaky investment practices are a theme of the movement, and because of that Wall Street is the center. Were you paying attention since mid 2008? Again ton, you come of as implying if you agreed with them you'd have a problem with that, and that's just wrong. You like throwing around questions, so here's one for ya: who decides what is a 'worthy' cause when it comes to deciding what the first amendment was 'truly designed to protect' - who makes that decision? I would be more empathetic if this was a cause of substance, yes. I have the right to determine that for myself and express little sympathy for these spoiled brats. It is your right to try and connect them with a high and noble cause. Of course it does not give anyone the right to hurt them, but they are also not exempt from adhering to the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Empathy really isn't that hard to learn, it's usually genetic. Not for Fox News and the College Republicans. Must be something in their genes. http://video.foxnews.com/v/1290649454001/o...aylist_id=86856 Edited November 23, 2011 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Shaky investment practices are a theme of the movement, and because of that Wall Street is the center. Were you paying attention since mid 2008? since you like to quote wikipedia ... "Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters which began September 17, 2011 in Zuccotti Park of New York City's Wall Street financial district. The protests are against social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly that of the financial services sector—on government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. Occupy Wall Street has led to the broader Occupy movement of leaderless protests in other cities across America and around the world." it's nice that they mention "as well as corruption". if this was the front and center cause, then the movement would have more merit. of course, if this was the focus, they would be sitting on AIG's lawn or, better yet, sitting on the white house lawn protesting the government for bailing out these poorly run institutions. so from the above, we have social inequality, economic inequality, unemployment, greed, oh yeah - corruption too, and then finally the ability of our corporations to influence the government. oh, and high tuition, don't forget that. the press is supporting this movement moreso than the american people, salivating over the possibility of catching conflict and violence and continuing to play on the same class warfare theme that obama is using to rally support for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 yes, i was for supporting mindless police brutality. way to dissect the language super sleuth. you are not this dense, are you? I wasn't dissecting anything. You've made it pretty clear over the last few pages that you'll go into "grab your ankles" mode anytime a cop tells you to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 How many posts has ton made in the last several hours on a topic that "people don't give a sh*t about" in the real world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I wasn't dissecting anything. You've made it pretty clear over the last few pages that you'll go into "grab your ankles" mode anytime a cop tells you to. yes, i see how your myopic mind would interpret things this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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