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5 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

Got ya. That's a tough one if your Foles. Do you sign it and guarantee yourself a huge payday or chance it on the open market? And Philly doesn't have much leverage. They are right against the cap. If he signs it and denies or doesn't want to be traded they are in big cap trouble. From what I've been reading I'm starting to think that there's a good chance the Birds don't tag him. 

they will tag him. they will accept much lower than most tags. they'll take a 3rd. Foles has no choice after he signs, he cannot deny a trade, all he can do is retire. What he needs to do at this point is have his agent get an agreement (in principal) with a team that PHI would be willing to trade to and accept a 3rd on DAY ONE of Free Agency. If that doesn't happen, he needs to sign his tag on day two because the longer it delays, the less likely he finds a market willing to pay him OVER $25mil (or whatever the tag is guaranteed for).

It would be rude, but I wouldn't be surprised if PHI revokes the tag after NYG and WAS secure their QB situation. Then Foles is really screwed because he gave up $22mil to explore FA with a much smaller market/demand.

Edited by LordOpie

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2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

Those two statements seem to contradict each other, why think it will be NYG if you'd bet (more certainty than think?) PHI tags him, so they can get something and control where he goes, which is not to NYG.

 

I'd think that kind of rules out NYG, no?

 

I know sometimes people just post random thoughts, but this seems to be from two different people that didn't talk. 

I made guesses based on two different perspectives/scenarios... I'm not sure why you always have to be contrary, but if I don't answer you, you'll pester me, so...

What does FOLES want?

Why not go to a team that has Saquon, Odell, and Solder (at LT)?!?! If he's a FA, then "I think NYG".

What does PHI want?

Definitely doesn't want Foles to go to division rival, NYG or WAS.

So, if PHI *thinks* Foles could go to a division rival, they will try to block that (tag him). If none of the NFC East teams needed a QB, the odds of PHI not tagging him would go up significantly. Since the best fit is probably NYG, then tag.

 

Do you always have to be difficult?

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10 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

they will tag him. they will accept much lower than most tags. they'll take a 3rd. Foles has no choice after he signs, he cannot deny a trade, all he can do is retire. What he needs to do at this point is have his agent get an agreement (in principal) with a team that PHI would be willing to trade to and accept a 3rd on DAY ONE of Free Agency. If that doesn't happen, he needs to sign his tag on day two because the longer it delays, the less likely he finds a market willing to pay him OVER $25mil (or whatever the tag is guaranteed for).

It would be rude, but I wouldn't be surprised if PHI revokes the tag after NYG and WAS secure their QB situation. Then Foles is really screwed because he gave up $22mil to explore FA with a much smaller market/demand.

 

Should be very interesting, and may get ugly

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2 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Should be very interesting, and may get ugly

where do you think he winds up?

since I predict PHI will tag him, partly for compensation, partly to keep him out of the NFC, I think the leader would be JAC and then MIA. Both teams have wealthy owners, so that's not an obstacle.

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I think this gets resolved quickly and amicably.  Teams want to know who their quarterback is going to be as early in the off-season as possible.  I don't think either Foles or the Eagles will play hardball.  The Eagles will get a 2nd or 3rd round pick and will let him go any team out of their division.  Foles' agent knows what the Eagles want in trade compensation and he is negotiating with teams right now.  I bet Foles signs with his new team on the first day of free agency.

 

Edited by michaelredd9
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21 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

I think this gets resolved quickly and amicably.  Teams want to know who their quarterback is going to be as early in the off-season as possible.  I don't think either Foles or the Eagles will play hardball.  The Eagles will get a 2nd or 3rd round pick and will let him go any team out of their division.  Foles' agent knows what the Eagles want in trade compensation and he is negotiating with teams right now.  I bet Foles signs with his new team on the first day of free agency.

 

 

Agree 100%

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53 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

I made guesses based on two different perspectives/scenarios... I'm not sure why you always have to be contrary, but if I don't answer you, you'll pester me, so...

What does FOLES want?

Why not go to a team that has Saquon, Odell, and Solder (at LT)?!?! If he's a FA, then "I think NYG".

What does PHI want?

Definitely doesn't want Foles to go to division rival, NYG or WAS.

So, if PHI *thinks* Foles could go to a division rival, they will try to block that (tag him). If none of the NFC East teams needed a QB, the odds of PHI not tagging him would go up significantly. Since the best fit is probably NYG, then tag.

 

Do you always have to be difficult?

 

I am not trying to be difficult but you toss a lot of stuff out in jumbled form that clearly has contradictions. 

 

You never said anything about signing with NYG only being if he is a FA. Maybe you meant that, but you didn't say that. Maybe it flowed from some prior posts, hard to keep up sometimes. 

 

If you don't response I won't pester you, not sure why you believe otherwise. Maybe I should just use your "sorry I upset you" remark since you thought that was sufficient in the past. 

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

You never said anything about signing with NYG only being if he is a FA. Maybe you meant that, but you didn't say that. Maybe it flowed from some prior posts, hard to keep up sometimes

Fair enough

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This is interesting.

 

"While several reports suggest that’s the Eagles plan — including one from ESPN’s Adam Schefter — it continues to feel like somewhat of a long shot it happens that way for several reasons, including one brought up by my colleague Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk

A tag-and-trade might violate the CBA. 

Florio dug this up from Article 4, Section 8, subsection (b): 

A Club extending a Required Tender must, for so long as that Tender is extended, have a good faith intention to employ the player receiving the Tender at the Tender compensation level during the upcoming season.

Basically, it seems like the Eagles’ plan to tag and trade Foles violates the spirit of the franchise tag rule. The Eagles don’t plan on having Foles on their roster next year; the only reason they would tag him is to trade him. Florio writes if Foles were to fight the tag, an expedited grievance would resolve the issue before the start of free agency on March 13. 

We don’t know what Foles’ feelings on this scenario are, but based on how quickly he voided his option year by paying back $2 million, it seems like he would rather become a free agent. Pretty much anyone would rather become a free agent. That’s why our Andrew Kulp doesn’t understand why Foles would sign a franchise tag if the Eagles placed one on him (see story). Foles really has all the leverage".

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All PHI has to do is say that if they cannot trade him that they will employ him under the tag for the upcoming season. If anyone challenges them on it, they only have to show how they signed him as insurance last season and that insurance paid off. There's nothing in that section that says you cannot tag-and-trade a player, only that if a trade fails to happen that you have every intention of revoking the tag before the player can sign.

As with all things legal, Foles or NFLPA has to *prove* that PHI has no intention of having Foles on the roster should a trade fail to happen. That is nearly impossible. I know Florio is very knowledgeable, but I think his "credibility" has demonstrable dropped since he became the backbone of Profootballtalk.

As for revoking the tag, a precedent has been set by CAR when they pulled the offer from Josh Norman. It appears that Norman was negotiating in good faith, but that CAR was not. If CAR wasn't punished for this, then PHI will easily get away with it (if they're trying to get away with anything) ... https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-redskins/josh-norman-tried-sign-rescinded-franchise-tag-panthers-report

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Man, I don't consider myself stupid but I am having trouble following this.  Foles "cannot refuse a trade".  Ok, but there must be some rules as far as how much he gets paid. If he signs the franchise tag they can't trade him to a team that pays him 10 million and gives the Eagles a first rounder.  (hypothetical, just saying).  Anyone know what he is contractually obligated to get under a trade? 

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2 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

This is interesting.

 

 

It is interesting.  For years the press has speculated that players would be tagged with the intention of trading that player.  Usually the player isn't tagged.  I'm trying to think of a player that was tagged by his team with the sole intention of trading him.  I can't think of an example.  Although, quarterback and running back are the only positions where this would apply since they are the only positions where you only want one player at that position (except kicker, punter and kick/punt returners). 

 

Sometimes the press doesn't know what they are talking about.  Just look at all speculation the press made about Le'Veon that turned out to be misinformed.  Or this could also be a case where the CBA says something but teams have an understanding that it is okay.  Foles would still have a legitimate gripe and could make a grievance.  But this makes me believe that they won't tag him at all.  The Eagles are hugely grateful for what Foles gave them.  Teams tend to appreciate a Super Bowl win.

 

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3 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

It is interesting.  For years the press has speculated that players would be tagged with the intention of trading that player.  Usually the player isn't tagged.  I'm trying to think of a player that was tagged by his team with the sole intention of trading him.  I can't think of an example.  Although, quarterback and running back are the only positions where this would apply since they are the only positions where you only want one player at that position (except kicker, punter and kick/punt returners). 

 

Sometimes the press doesn't know what they are talking about.  Just look at all speculation the press made about Le'Veon that turned out to be misinformed.  Or this could also be a case where the CBA says something but teams have an understanding that it is okay.  Foles would still have a legitimate gripe and could make a grievance.  But this makes me believe that they won't tag him at all.  The Eagles are hugely grateful for what Foles gave them.  Teams tend to appreciate a Super Bowl win.

 

 

Yup, I'm starting to think they won't tag him either. Eagles owner Jeffrey Laurie LOVES Nick Foles and I find it hard to believe that they would do anything to hold him back. I'm not worried about the Giants or having Nick Foles in the East. 

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1 hour ago, purplemonster said:

1. Foles "cannot refuse a trade".  

2. Ok, but there must be some rules as far as how much he gets paid.

3. If he signs the franchise tag they can't trade him to a team that pays him 10 million and gives the Eagles a first rounder.  (hypothetical, just saying).  Anyone know what he is contractually obligated to get under a trade? 

1. This is true AFTER he signs the tag. Until then, he can negotiate with any team

2. When he signs the tag, he gets the average of the top 5 players at that position, guaranteed (about $25mil for a QB this year)

3. If he signs, then he is under contract for that season (tag amount, $25m). If traded, then the new team can sign him to any new deal, but the player has to agree to the new contract.

 

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6 hours ago, michaelredd9 said:

I think this gets resolved quickly and amicably.  Teams want to know who their quarterback is going to be as early in the off-season as possible.  I don't think either Foles or the Eagles will play hardball.  The Eagles will get a 2nd or 3rd round pick and will let him go any team out of their division.  Foles' agent knows what the Eagles want in trade compensation and he is negotiating with teams right now.  I bet Foles signs with his new team on the first day of free agency.

 

so... what I said? :D I know, even if I'm right, usually am, most guys here won't agree with me, until someone like you posts it and then they'll agree, but still not with me :P

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17 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

1. This is true AFTER he signs the tag. Until then, he can negotiate with any team

2. When he signs the tag, he gets the average of the top 5 players at that position, guaranteed (about $25mil for a QB this year)

3. If he signs, then he is under contract for that season (tag amount, $25m). If traded, then the new team can sign him to any new deal, but the player has to agree to the new contract.

 

 

Can't he sign the tag then dictate where he goes? What if he signs the tag and tells the Eagles I'll only do a new deal with the Giants. It would throw a money wrench in everything. I doubt he would do that but could he??

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1 minute ago, League_Champion said:

 

Can't he sign the tag then dictate where he goes? What if he signs the tag and tells the Eagles I'll only do a new deal with the Giants. It would throw a money wrench in everything. I doubt he would do that but could he??

he can say whatever he wants, but logistically, after he signs the tag, he's under PHI control and his only recourse is to hold out... didn't work so well for Leveon.

By not signing the tag, he's allowed to negotiate with any team. The problem is, if he waits too long to sign the tag, he puts himself in a more difficult position and his position gets worse as the off-season progresses. After the NFL draft, he'll have absolutely no leverage and if PHI revokes the tag, he's lost $25m guaranteed and would likely be on a $5m back up contract.

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3 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

he can say whatever he wants, but logistically, after he signs the tag, he's under PHI control and his only recourse is to hold out... didn't work so well for Leveon.

By not signing the tag, he's allowed to negotiate with any team. The problem is, if he waits too long to sign the tag, he puts himself in a more difficult position and his position gets worse as the off-season progresses. After the NFL draft, he'll have absolutely no leverage and if PHI revokes the tag, he's lost $25m guaranteed and would likely be on a $5m back up contract.

 

I have a bad feeling this gets ugly. I hope not, he's been a good soldier for the Birds. I'd rather they let him walk if need be.

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3 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

I have a bad feeling this gets ugly. I hope not, he's been a good soldier for the Birds. I'd rather they let him walk if need be.

i bet the team would if the only issue was compensation (like a 3rd), but since TWO of your division rivals need a QB, they just can't. Could you imagine a 30 year old good QB on that NYG team? What if your team lets Foles walks and he's the difference between NYG winning the division? Your fans would tear the team a new one.

After all, you guys throw batteries at Santa!

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2 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

i bet the team would if the only issue was compensation (like a 3rd), but since TWO of your division rivals need a QB, they just can't. Could you imagine a 30 year old good QB on that NYG team? What if your team lets Foles walks and he's the difference between NYG winning the division? Your fans would tear the team a new one.

After all, you guys throw batteries at Santa!

 

Snowballs, not batteries. 

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16 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

Snowballs, not batteries. 

 

I thought it was batteries wrapped in snow. 

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13 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

That would be Cleveland

 

Not us, we're tame and docile  ;) 

 

I recall a game with Chargers, in the EZ at my end (Dawg Pound) and people throwing snow balls, one barely missed Junior Seau's, the glare he gave us could have frozen lava. 

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57 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Not us, we're tame and docile  ;) 

 

I recall a game with Chargers, in the EZ at my end (Dawg Pound) and people throwing snow balls, one barely missed Junior Seau's, the glare he gave us could have frozen lava. 

 

Haha. Your lucky Seau didn't bum rush the stands. I was at the game where they were hurling snowballs at Jimmy Johnson. There must have been 10,000 snowballs at once. It looked like Baghdad.

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

Not us, we're tame and docile  ;) 

 

I recall a game with Chargers, in the EZ at my end (Dawg Pound) and people throwing snow balls, one barely missed Junior Seau's, the glare he gave us could have frozen lava. 

In thought you were referring to this:

 

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