rocknrobn26 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 (edited) Grossman: I never felt comfortable w/ him, but he's had (not this year) moments of greatness. Problem is they are moments based on the millennium! Regardless if Rivera said he has no confidence, whatever, is obviously true. He's a kid in an adult world and just can't cut it. But if anyone thinks that the decision to start or bench the guy is solely Lovie's, you are wrong. Back in the day (I can go back 50+ years) when Papa was still alive, there were coaches, GMs, etc, BUT Papa ran the team regardless of who the coach was. Until Ditka. Ditka demanded and got, I believe, full control of "on the field" decisions. When Papa died Mike McC-ass-Key tried to "help" run things. He and Ditka went head to head and Iron Mike was eventually fired by MM. Maybe it was justified, but I digress. I only bring this up to repeat that it is not Lovie's decision alone. Angelo is deeply (too deeply) involved w/ "on the field" decisions. And MM maybe a contributor. Other QB's: Griese is and was hired as a BU, nothing more. If he becomes a starting QB for the bears I will very surprised. They will have to test Orton. I see a possibility of Grossman laying another egg next week (or pick a week), Griese comes in and unless he is the next coming of Luckman, he will play out the game win or lose. Next week Orton starts and he'll be on a short leash. If he doesn't play well but doesn't lose the game, he'll be back the following week. And so on...and so on...etc! I could be wrong but I believe Grossman and Orton are close to a resigning. Why the Bears didn't go after Brees I'll never know. They had a salary cap that could have covered, but they already spent mega $$$$$ on Grossman. I could do a diatribe on that, but I'll stop. The rumor that McNabb will come in next year is ludicrous! He's NOT a long term solution and that's what the bears need. "O" line: It's old and it's not good. Our pro bowl center is showing his years and they are not playing well. The right side is an open door and Benson can't block like TJ. RB: It's pretty obvious to me that Benson is NOT the RB that will fit in to the current system. We gave away the best RB we've had for years, again because of $$$ and Angelo. He can't block worth a crap and his moves laterally are bad. Enis???? Well maybe not that bad but benson will never be a top back. "D": When Brown and Dvoracek went down that was a major blow. Though I think Tillman looks better this year than last. Archuleta is playing poorly, but no worse than he did in the past. We may be losing more players after the 3 injuries yesterday. We'll See! I'll stop there. And to reinforce what I said above, I would NOT be surprised to see Orton starting in the next 2 weeks or so. Coming: Da Bears are family owned for too long and the legacy of the "Front Office" running things is just that....A Legacy. That is where a lot of the Bears problems lie. No solution, just stating fact. I think Lovie is a great coach. Best we've seen in ~15 years, but he's in a family run business.. He is ham strung. Lastly....I have never booed a Bear player. Not saying at times it isn't justified or that I didn't throw something at my TV (I have a "bad call brick", foam rubber, it's great!) after a bad play, just not my style to boo. But after watching the post game/players leaving the field videos, I was appalled/sickened/disgusted w/ my Bear brethren throwing stuff at Grossman!!!! Just like that Katrina stuff last year. THAT IS EMBARRASSING to me, and I'd like to think most Bear fans!!!! The sorry part is I am sure that most teams have "Fans" like that! Major a-holes! over. Edited September 25, 2007 by rocknrobn26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I feel your frustration, brother. I believe Lovie will start Rex next week. If he can't do it against the Lions, he's done and we'll see Griese. Once Griese plays, he gets the next start(s) until he's flattened, and that's exactly what will happen. If you think Rex has no mobility, Griese has less and he might make quicker decisions. With Griese at QB, I think the TE's end up being over used. Muhammad has quit on this team. It's sad to see. Berrian is a gamer, but had a crap game last week. They have no RB that is proven in the league, no QB that is worth throwing out there, and an old OL. The defense just took some hugh hits...after losing Dusty and M. Brown. Harris is dinged, Briggs is dinged, and Vasher is hurt too. It's going to get uglier before it gets better in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I feel your frustration, brother. I believe Lovie will start Rex next week. If he can't do it against the Lions, he's done and we'll see Griese. Once Griese plays, he gets the next start(s) until he's flattened, and that's exactly what will happen. If you think Rex has no mobility, Griese has less and he might make quicker decisions. With Griese at QB, I think the TE's end up being over used. Muhammad has quit on this team. It's sad to see. Berrian is a gamer, but had a crap game last week. They have no RB that is proven in the league, no QB that is worth throwing out there, and an old OL. The defense just took some hugh hits...after losing Dusty and M. Brown. Harris is dinged, Briggs is dinged, and Vasher is hurt too. It's going to get uglier before it gets better in Chicago. The reality is now (especially with the injuries that they are now paper thin) they might very well pull a Seattle 2006 - if they're lucky - especially with the Pack having somehow reloaded over the off-season. Trading TJ has turned out to be a disaster. I have a hard time believing that the entire OL suddenly is acting old down to every man. Teams won't respect the run and don't ahve to because there's no need to respect the pass. I do disagree about McNabb: even at his age he could be a 4 year solution which is the window on the defense. And yeah, if people were throwing stuff at Grossman, that's simply being dumb, even if you've been drinking since 10am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 The reality is now (especially with the injuries that they are now paper thin) they might very well pull a Seattle 2006 - if they're lucky - especially with the Pack having somehow reloaded over the off-season. Green Bay will fall off unless their run game gets a pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 (edited) Lastly....I have never booed a Bear player. wait one second.....what about cade mcclown, rashan salami, curtis enis, david terrell, and now grossman. booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thankfully its still baseball season! Edited September 25, 2007 by dmarc117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 wait one second.....what about cade mcclown, rashan salami, curtis enis, david terrell, and now grossman. booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thankfully its still baseball season! No, but I have booed Whinnystadt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51Butkus Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Grossman: I never felt comfortable w/ him, but he's had (not this year) moments of greatness. Problem is they are moments based on the millennium! Regardless if Rivera said he has no confidence, whatever, is obviously true. He's a kid in an adult world and just can't cut it. But if anyone thinks that the decision to start or bench the guy is solely Lovie's, you are wrong. Back in the day (I can go back 50+ years) when Papa was still alive, there were coaches, GMs, etc, BUT Papa ran the team regardless of who the coach was. Until Ditka. Ditka demanded and got, I believe, full control of "on the field" decisions. When Papa died Mike McC-ass-Key tried to "help" run things. He and Ditka went head to head and Iron Mike was eventually fired by MM. Maybe it was justified, but I digress. I only bring this up to repeat that it is not Lovie's decision alone. Angelo is deeply (too deeply) involved w/ "on the field" decisions. And MM maybe a contributor.Other QB's: Griese is and was hired as a BU, nothing more. If he becomes a starting QB for the bears I will very surprised. They will have to test Orton. I see a possibility of Grossman laying another egg next week (or pick a week), Griese comes in and unless he is the next coming of Luckman, he will play out the game win or lose. Next week Orton starts and he'll be on a short leash. If he doesn't play well but doesn't lose the game, he'll be back the following week. And so on...and so on...etc! I could be wrong but I believe Grossman and Orton are close to a resigning. Why the Bears didn't go after Brees I'll never know. They had a salary cap that could have covered, but they already spent mega $$$$$ on Grossman. I could do a diatribe on that, but I'll stop. The rumor that McNabb will come in next year is ludicrous! He's NOT a long term solution and that's what the bears need. "O" line: It's old and it's not good. Our pro bowl center is showing his years and they are not playing well. The right side is an open door and Benson can't block like TJ. RB: It's pretty obvious to me that Benson is NOT the RB that will fit in to the current system. We gave away the best RB we've had for years, again because of $$$ and Angelo. He can't block worth a crap and his moves laterally are bad. Enis???? Well maybe not that bad but benson will never be a top back. "D": When Brown and Dvoracek went down that was a major blow. Though I think Tillman looks better this year than last. Archuleta is playing poorly, but no worse than he did in the past. We may be losing more players after the 3 injuries yesterday. We'll See! I'll stop there. And to reinforce what I said above, I would NOT be surprised to see Orton starting in the next 2 weeks or so. Coming: Da Bears are family owned for too long and the legacy of the "Front Office" running things is just that....A Legacy. That is where a lot of the Bears problems lie. No solution, just stating fact. I think Lovie is a great coach. Best we've seen in ~15 years, but he's in a family run business.. He is ham strung. Lastly....I have never booed a Bear player. Not saying at times it isn't justified or that I didn't throw something at my TV (I have a "bad call brick", foam rubber, it's great!) after a bad play, just not my style to boo. But after watching the post game/players leaving the field videos, I was appalled/sickened/disgusted w/ my Bear brethren throwing stuff at Grossman!!!! Just like that Katrina stuff last year. THAT IS EMBARRASSING to me, and I'd like to think most Bear fans!!!! The sorry part is I am sure that most teams have "Fans" like that! Major a-holes! over. Respectfully, if Orton starts in place of Grossman (someone will, its almost a certainty) over Brian Griese, then we'll all refer to you a the Swami! The Bears always seem to be about the money, a legacy that dates back to Halas. I think Griese's getting something like $5MM a year, so, IMO, you're likely to see him before you see Orton back in there. But I'll tell you this. It has taken about 20+ starts by Grossman, since he's returned from that broken ankle, to make me (and I am sure many Bears fans) appreciate what Orton did in 2005. Amazing what can happen when you don't turn the ball over, and let your Defense and Special teams win games for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 No, but I have booed Whinnystadt! wats with that mustache of his? i think ive seen it move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Respectfully, if Orton starts in place of Grossman (someone will, its almost a certainty) over Brian Griese, then we'll all refer to you a the Swami! The Bears always seem to be about the money, a legacy that dates back to Halas. I think Griese's getting something like $5MM a year, so, IMO, you're likely to see him before you see Orton back in there. But I'll tell you this. It has taken about 20+ starts by Grossman, since he's returned from that broken ankle, to make me (and I am sure many Bears fans) appreciate what Orton did in 2005. Amazing what can happen when you don't turn the ball over, and let your Defense and Special teams win games for you! No argument it's a major stretch, and I usually don't make predictions. You're correct about $$$ driven, but I believe it's still family driven. I think Michael is still in the mix somewhere, and he's an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 thankfully its still baseball season! *cough* Bartman *cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 *cough* Bartman *cough* The NL is so bad right now that they just *might* win the pennant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I have to start Adrian Peterson(the Bear) this week. SJax is out, Bush on a bye and Rudi may be hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Other QB's: Griese is and was hired as a BU, nothing more. If he becomes a starting QB for the bears I will very surprised. They will have to test Orton. I see a possibility of Grossman laying another egg next week (or pick a week), Griese comes in and unless he is the next coming of Luckman, he will play out the game win or lose. Next week Orton starts and he'll be on a short leash. If he doesn't play well but doesn't lose the game, he'll be back the following week. What did Griese do in Chicago that has him behind the likes of Kyle Orton? Yeah he's old but maybe that's what the offense needs... savvy, consistent veteran leadership. Chicago QBs' career ratings... 84.5 59.7 69.3 Griese may not win games by himself but the Bears hardly need that. They need for their QB to NOT lose the game for them. Granted the run game is sputtering and Turner may be calling dumb, unimaginative plays... but why compound the problem with 2 QBs that provide a roller coaster of inconsistency, almost single handedly losing games despite a stout defense/ST??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Green Bay will fall off unless their run game gets a pulse. With the 3 wides they can run now that Jennings is healthy and Lee/Franks stretching the 2nd tier in the middle of the field, the state of the running game is going to change significantly in GB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Even though he was a rookie when he got most of his playing time, Kyle Orton looked absolutely awful. Even if he's improved significantly since, I imagine that when Rex is finally pulled, Griese gets the nod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Rex is done- as been stated many times, I cannot believe Lovie has stuck with him so long- he is flat out awful. Griese is the call here- I think he will do well, he is smart, knows where to put the ball, and gets it out quickly. Honestly, think Chi has a better chance to win last year as well as this year with Griese in there. Orton? things will go from bad to horrible if that scrub gets some snaps. He is brutal. Watching Romo on Sunday night had to make it that much more painful for Bears fans. That kid has IT - knows how to play the position, Grossman just has zero pocket presence, and looks like he doesn't belong in the league. Is there any other team in the NFL he starts for? I don't think so............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Rex is done- as been stated many times, I cannot believe Lovie has stuck with him so long- he is flat out awful. Griese is the call here- I think he will do well, he is smart, knows where to put the ball, and gets it out quickly. Honestly, think Chi has a better chance to win last year as well as this year with Griese in there. Orton? things will go from bad to horrible if that scrub gets some snaps. He is brutal. Why do you say that? He won 10 games with a defense that wasn't as stout as this one is. 2 years later and it wouldn't surprise me if they keep Griese as the backup and give it to the kid. Grossman drops to 3 and walks away after the season is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Why do you say that? He won 10 games with a defense that wasn't as stout as this one is. If that's your criteria, they why the talk of changing out Grossman at all? He's 18-8 as a starter in CHI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Even though he was a rookie when he got most of his playing time, Kyle Orton looked absolutely awful. Even if he's improved significantly since, I imagine that when Rex is finally pulled, Griese gets the nod. Being awful NEVER disqualified ANY Bear QB in the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 (edited) Why do you say that? He won The team won 10 games, despite Orton's awful play, with a defense that wasn't as stout as this one is. Fixed 2 years later and it wouldn't surprise me if they keep Griese as the backup and give it to the kid. Grossman drops to 3 and walks away after the season is over. Unless Orton has looked absolutely outstanding in camp/on the practice squad and/or Griese has aged horribly over the past two years, it would surprise me. If the Bears are still trying to win, they're better off with the aging vet who has played well a couple times in his career than the young kid who hasn't ever shown anything on the field and wasn't drafted to be a starter in the first place. Edited September 25, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 If that's your criteria, they why the talk of changing out Grossman at all? He's 18-8 as a starter in CHI. Maybe because there's fundamental difference between the expectations of a 1st round pick who was given the (injury) luxury of watching the game for 3+ years before having to take the field, and a 4th round pick who wasn't even given reps in training camp (until preseason was over) prior to becoming an NFL starter 5 months after he was drafted. Then again, you know that. Grossman is 18-8, Orton is 10-5 and did it with FAR less. In short, it's clear that Orton has something that Grossman does not. Now, I'm not sure what that is, but given the situation it's call that wouldn't surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Maybe because there's fundamental difference between the expectations of a 1st round pick who was given the (injury) luxury of watching the game for 3+ years before having to take the field, and a 4th round pick who wasn't even given reps in training camp (until preseason was over) prior to becoming an NFL starter 5 months after he was drafted. Then again, you know that. Grossman is 18-8, Orton is 10-5 and did it with FAR less. In short, it's clear that Orton has something that Grossman does not. Now, I'm not sure what that is, but given the situation it's call that wouldn't surprise me. That's my point also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 The Bears D/ST is 18-8 with Grossman, Bears D/ST is 10-5 with Orton and did it with FAR less. Fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 In short, it's clear that Orton has something that Grossman does not. Pretend that I've never seen CHI play at all and explain to me what Orton clearly has that Grossman doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Why do you say that? He won 10 games with a defense that wasn't as stout as this one is. I'm having some trouble with this statement that Grossman's surrounding cast was much better than Orton's also. Since I assume you are comparing 2005 w/ Orton to 2006 with Grossman (since Grossman played in so few games in other seasons), let's take a look: 2005 Bears D Total D #2 in NFL Rushing yds #11 Rushing ypa #9 rushing TDs #5 passing yds #5 passing ypa #1 passing TDs #1 INTs #2 CHI Pro Bowlers: Lance Briggs (lb), Mike Brown (db), Tommie Harris (dl), Olin Kreutz (ol), Brian Urlacher (lb), Nathan Vasher (db). 2006 Bears D Total D #5 in NFL Rushing yds #6 Rushing ypa #11 rushing TDs #2 passing yds #11 passing ypa #1 passing TDs #10 INTs #2 CHI Pro Bowlers: Brendon Ayanbadejo (lb), Lance Briggs (lb), Tommie Harris (dl), Devin Hester (db), Olin Kreutz (ol), Brian Urlacher (lb). I'm failing to see a meaningful difference here between the 2 teams. If anything, Orton's 2005 team played better on D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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