Looking for feedback

[detlef]

OK, so we're contemplating a policy at the restaurant and I'm curious what the reaction from consumers might be.

 

Jujube is not a large restaurant, yet we have a small section of the dining room, sort of separate from the rest that seats ~20+. During the week, we love to get a large table back there when we can. It tends to happen maybe once a week or so.

 

Here's the problem, booking a similar party back there on weekends can tend to lose us money. The facts are that most parties of 5 or less tend to eat in about 1.5 hours, so, provided it's busy, we can get at least two turns on every table. Even if you account for not maximizing seats (parties of 3 taking tables that can seat 4, etc.), it's safe to say that we can get 35+ from those same 20 seats on Friday and Saturday night. However, a large party shuts it down all night. If it's 7 or 7:30, you really can't take the chance of seating it early because, on the off chance the early table camps, you're screwed since there's no other options in the dining room to seat the large party. If it's any earlier, you'e not likely to get the seats back until after 9pm because large parties always take longer (typically at least 2.5 hours) and we rarely get many people coming in that late.

 

Again, M-Th, it's no biggie because we don't expect to get the amount of traffic to expect 2+ turns on every table and having a 20 top is just an ace in the hole that assures you that you'll at least be somewhat busy.

 

So, my options:

 

#1) No parties larger than, say 8 on weekends.

 

#2) Set a minimum for the party at say, 150% of what our normal check average per person (which would end up around $50 per person). If you don't spend it all, we can just sell you a few bottles of wine (I'd even do so a price closer to retail than what my wine list price is) to make up the difference. The rationale would be simply that a party of your size will typically be there for duration of the night and we need to be able to make what we typically do from that area on a weekend night.

 

#3) No change. Accept the fact that accepting large parties without restriction is just a part of doing business.

 

Certainly I would lean towards #2 and we did do a version of this during the holiday season every night of the week since we were inundated with larger holiday parties. It is also the exact thing we do on the very rare occasion that somebody has a party large enough that they would take the place over. Basically, if you've got a party of 60 or so, it's just not feasible for me to do any other business besides your group. Thus, the minimum is what I would typically make that night of the week and we go from there.

 

My concern is taking an adversarial relationship with my customers. It's always a thin line between protecting yourself from losing your ass and coming off rude. However, the simple fact of life for a place like mine is that we make a ton of our money on weekends and often do twice the number of covers then. If I tie up my dining room all night with one table, it can be tough even if they spend OK. God forbid they drink water and order nothing but noodles, then I'm screwed.

 

So, before I go with whatever version I end up with, I'm curious what your thoughts as dining consumers would be if you called a place with a party of, say 20 on a Friday night and were given any of the above lines.

[wiegie]

I think option 2 would be ok with people. (If somebody asks why, I wouldn't necessarily tell them that it was table turnover that was prompting the policy, but rather make up something about how you have to bring in an extra cook or something to deal with parties or some such nonsense).

 

Edit to add: I also would not tell them that the minimum is 150% above the average guest check.

 

Edit again to add: Of course, if you think you can fill the tables with regular guests on weekends, then I would probably just not take parties at all on weekends.

Edited January 28, 2008 by wiegie

[Ursa Majoris]

I think option 2 would be ok with people. (If somebody asks why, I wouldn't necessarily tell them that it was table turnover that was prompting the policy, but rather make up something about how you have to bring in an extra cook or something to deal with parties or some such nonsense).

 

Edit to add: I also would not tell them that the minimum is 150% above the average guest check.

What wiegie said.

[Bier Meister]

it is a fine line you are playing with...... could you get away with booking them for only 7:30+

[twiley]

I like the concept of #2 but a majority of people get offended when you start setting parameters like that. You could run the risk of losing repeat business of large parties. I tend to go to the places that don't tack on a surcharge or "penalty" for having a large party.

 

However, I think if you do go this route, start the number at 10 or 12 not 8. It's not uncommon for me and a group of friends to get together with a group this size. 8 is really only 4 couples.

 

Tough dilemma.

[Cameltosis]

#2) Set a minimum for the party at say, 150% of what our normal check average per person (which would end up around $50 per person). If you don't spend it all, we can just sell you a few bottles of wine (I'd even do so a price closer to retail than what my wine list price is) to make up the difference. The rationale would be simply that a party of your size will typically be there for duration of the night and we need to be able to make what we typically do from that area on a weekend night.

 

I dont have a problem with #2. Heck most of the time I go out to a nice dinner I drop at least $50, food and drinks combined. However, just out of curiousity and ignorance, do you need a special liquor license to allow the customer to carry out booze?

Edited January 28, 2008 by Cameltosis

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

I dont have a problem with #2. Heck most of the time I go out to a nice dinner I drop at least $50, food and drinks combined. However, just out of curiousity and ignorance, do you need a special liquor license to allow the customer to carry out booze?

In NC you can carry out anything that's corked, even if opened...with the exception of liquor.

[Bier Meister]

as a customer coming in with a party of about 15, i think i'd be deterred from booking or returning with such an upcharge. i would not want to feel as i were inconveniencing the restaurant with our gathering and knowing we will be spending decent money you said establishment.

[driveby]

Will they be paying with a credit card?

[wirehairman]

it is a fine line you are playing with...... could you get away with booking them for only 7:30+

 

That might work. If I called a place and they told me they could accomodate my large party but couldn't get us in until a little later, I would be cool with that. Then, you could seat all your early reservations in the back to essentially turn the tables over twice while still having the guaranteed big party.

[wiegie]

That might work. If I called a place and they told me they could accomodate my large party but couldn't get us in until a little later, I would be cool with that. Then, you could seat all your early reservations in the back to essentially turn the tables over twice while still having the guaranteed big party.

until you have that one four-top that is sitting right in the middle of the section that camps out themselves all night long

[T_bone65]

Will they be paying with a credit card?

 

 

[detlef]

So, you guys see the dilemma. Thanks, btw, for the responses.

 

Like ouija said, all's fine and well with pushing large parties back until that one time a table camps.

 

Certainly if we did option #2, I wouldn't explain the 150% thing. However, my experience is that every time I've had to play the, "we need to make what we typically would off the restaurant" card to people inquiring about renting the place out, they've been 100% understanding. I suppose my hope is that people would just see this the same way. I also make a very specific point of reminding them that we are not talking about a room charge (which is quite common in the industry). I think room charges are sleazy and that minimums are more transparent. I would understand if somebody took my restaurant off their list of places to hold large parties on the weekends because, for the most part, they don't make me much money. That is, unless, they like to go for it. We actually go out of our way to make the dining experience for large parties nice by not punting on the menu the way so many places do. Often you get some BS vanilla choices and nothing else. Soup or salad followed by chicken breast or petite filet or some other tired crap.

 

When we do large parties, we either give them the entire menu to choose from, do a combination of cool family style apps plus a large choice of entrees or put together pretty baller 5+ course tasting menus for them. Thus, I'm pretty sure I could put a good spin on it to somebody who often hosts large parties that, provided they come in M-Th we'll take good care of them and, should they decide that F-Sat is the night, that we'll certainly make it worth their money with a very nice menu.

 

The obvious problem with option #1 is that if 20 people want to camp out all night drinking Burgundy and ordering swank specials, that's the last party in the world I want to turn away. So, going the absolute route certainly has it's disadvantages.

 

None the less, still quite undecided.

[detlef]

That might work. If I called a place and they told me they could accomodate my large party but couldn't get us in until a little later, I would be cool with that. Then, you could seat all your early reservations in the back to essentially turn the tables over twice while still having the guaranteed big party.

I would certainly waive the minimum if somebody wanted to come in after 8:30 or so.

[Ursa Majoris]

I would certainly waive the minimum if somebody wanted to come in after 8:30 or so.

Expand the size of the place. I suggest shifting the chefs out back by the dumpster using a barbecue pit or similar for cooking. Then the guests can use the kitchen space.

 

It's not like it's cold in the Carolinas or anything.

[i_am_the_swammi]

One thing you neglected to mention/consider is the repeat business that the party's might generate. I would guess alot of your 2 or 4-tops are repeat guest who like your restaurant and frequent it on an ongoing basis.

 

However, I would think the typical profile of the "large party" might be just one or two couples who know your place well and book it for the party, while a lot of their guest are from another part of town who may not know your palce too well. When I think of the larger gatherings I have attended at restaurants, it was usually a birthday/anniversary/holiday, and almost always involved people not from the immediate neighborhood.

 

That being said, part of your analysis needs to be the incremental future business that these "new" customers might generate, especially on non-peak nights, rather than just seating your regulars over and over again. the same "peak" nights of the week.

 

However, should that analysis prove too difficult to quantify, I like the idea of seating large party's only after 7:30. Your only explanation to someone calling for an earlier time needs to be: "I'm sorry, but we have nothing available for the time you requested.".

Edited January 28, 2008 by i_am_the_swammi

[Azazello1313]

i think the 150% thing would be bad form. it would put people off, better off just saying you can't accomodate parties that large on weekends if doing so hurts your bottom line. maybe you should seat early people in that back room with the understanding that you've got the room reserved starting at 8 or whatever and their alternative is wating for a table in the main dining room or whatever. if you tell them that up front most people will be totally conscientious about it. the handfull of ass holes who camp anyway you can ask to leave. i think i'd rather lose their business than anyone with a party of 8 or more.

[Bier Meister]

i think the 150% thing would be bad form. it would put people off, better off just saying you can't accomodate parties that large on weekends if doing so hurts your bottom line. maybe you should seat early people in that back room with the understanding that you've got the room reserved starting at 8 or whatever and their alternative is wating for a table in the main dining room or whatever. if you tell them that up front most people will be totally conscientious about it. the handfull of ass holes who camp anyway you can ask to leave. i think i'd rather lose their business than anyone with a party of 8 or more.

 

 

exactly what i was getting at

[detlef]

One thing you neglected to mention/consider is the repeat business that the party's might generate. I would guess alot of your 2 or 4-tops are repeat guest who like your restaurant and frequent it on an ongoing basis.

 

However, I would think the typical profile of the "large party" might be just one or two couples who know your place well and book it for the party, while a lot of their guest are from another part of town who may not know your palce too well. When I think of the larger gatherings I have attended at restaurants, it was usually a birthday/anniversary/holiday, and almost always involved people not from the immediate neighborhood.

 

That being said, part of your analysis needs to be the incremental future business that these "new" customers might generate, especially on non-peak nights, rather than just seating your regulars over and over again. the same "peak" nights of the week.

 

However, should that analysis prove too difficult to quantify, I like the idea of seating large party's only after 7:30. Your only explanation to someone calling for an earlier time needs to be: "I'm sorry, but we have nothing available for the time you requested.".

Good points to be sure. However, in terms of your last bit, that line could be pretty hard to sell to somebody booking a party way ahead of time (as they often do). I mean, we're popular, but I think most would have a hard time believing that 7:00 is booked solid 1-2 months out. This isn't that type of market. Hell, we have people genuinely surprised when they call at 4pm to find we're booked that night at 7.

 

Since you mention it, I would say that what you describe has been the case relatively often. Somebody likes the place, they throw some birthday party there and a bunch of people who never knew about us or were meaning to check us out get turned on and, themselves, become regulars. That's a solid vote for #3.

 

However, should I go with #2, I would certainly take honest approach. Just tell them why we have to do what we do and remind them that we'll certainly make it worth their while. So far, I'm batting 1.000 in terms of either getting the customer to play ball or, at very least, have them not get pissed when I've applied this logic to similar situations.

[Hugh B Tool]

It is simple with a establishment of your size, you can not take parties of that size during peak hours. Period the end. Less offensive and pretentious to the general public than #2(sans the Holiday season). Some of the best small places I have been to cater to parties of 4-5 or less. And if they have chops, they stay busy with waiting lines constantly because of the food and the service they get when they finally are seated.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Hugh B Tool

[detlef]

i think the 150% thing would be bad form. it would put people off, better off just saying you can't accomodate parties that large on weekends if doing so hurts your bottom line. maybe you should seat early people in that back room with the understanding that you've got the room reserved starting at 8 or whatever and their alternative is wating for a table in the main dining room or whatever. if you tell them that up front most people will be totally conscientious about it. the handfull of ass holes who camp anyway you can ask to leave. i think i'd rather lose their business than anyone with a party of 8 or more.

Now, I don't intend to use the 150% number per se. Rather inform them that we would be glad to close off that section of the restaurant to them for the entire night but need to charge them as much as we would otherwise make had we not done so.

 

When they say we could seat it before they arrive, I could simply say, that is only realistic if their party starts at 8pm or later. In which case, I would gladly waive the minimum.

 

Then, as Azz says, we could use that section for early walk-ins or at least as our last reservations we take, informing each patron that they need to understand that we need the table back by 8pm either when they sit or make the reservation.

[Bier Meister]

there is nothing unreasonable about buyouts or partial buyouts..... the difference imo is stating the amount at the beginning (ie: 35/17 x $50- or whatever you per check average is) vs 150% of the check).

 

 

edit:

 

i might frame it as such: "for functions of XX or more on weekends we can make the following accomodations: you can have the room for the entire evening for a minimum purchase of Y. you can have the entire room for a minimum purchase of Z from 7:30 or 8 until close."

Edited January 28, 2008 by Bier Meister

[Atlanta Cracker]

I think having a minimum per party for any group over 8 would be acceptable. If you do it per person then it should be the same minimum per person regardless of party size to avoid confusion. Something simple like, "We'll be glad to accomodate your party of 12 Friday night. Please be aware that we only have space to accomodate one party that size per night and as such require a $1,500 minimum on weekends." You can go into further details about how you'll make it worth their while, etc if you want. That seems more of a solution between #2 and #3... Mostly no large parties on weekends but if some group plans to go for it then you'll accomodate them.

[detlef]

i might frame it as such: "for functions of XX or more on weekends we can make the following accomodations: you can have the room for the entire evening for a minimum purchase of Y. you can have the entire room for a minimum purchase of Z from 7:30 or 8 until close."

That's pretty much how I would handle it. I was only bringing up the 150% deal to inform you guys of the thought process behind it all. I did not intend to tell anyone that number. Once again, if they came after 8pm there wouldn't even be a minimum.

[detlef]

I think having a minimum per party for any group over 8 would be acceptable. If you do it per person then it should be the same minimum per person regardless of party size to avoid confusion. Something simple like, "We'll be glad to accomodate your party of 12 Friday night. Please be aware that we only have space to accomodate one party that size per night and as such require a $1,500 minimum on weekends." You can go into further details about how you'll make it worth their while, etc if you want. That seems more of a solution between #2 and #3... Mostly no large parties on weekends but if some group plans to go for it then you'll accomodate them.

Nicely put.