In Wisconsin News Today

[SEC=UGA]

The whole lot.

 

I can live with that.

 

You want to argue about anything else in here? Or discuss my wardrobe a bit more.

 

Just so I can get your juices flowing... I'm currently wearing a pair of Lucky Brand jeans, a white polo shirt with beige horizontal stripes ( I bought it at Nordstrom. It's that soft cotton fabric, when it rubs against my bare nipples it sends slight chills down my spine.) I have on a pair of boxers, I think they are paisley... hang on... yep, black burgundy, grey paisley. Blue sox and a pair of Timberland low cut hikers...

[bushwacked]

Ummm... Dude, it's the best I could do. THere is no repository with better info that was quickly accessible by google in the first 3 pages of my search. Find information that proves that teachers are woefully underpaid compared to others who hold a bachelors degree and I'll gladly give you credit for disproving my theory that educators are not underpaid.

 

So, your links show a miscellaneous 25 year old college chick who just graduated with a BS get's paid as much the median salary for a teacher in WI. Well that was certainly some weak ass sauce to get all snarky and chest puffy about. I think you need to give yerself credit for disproving your theory and don't need help from anyone else.

 

Is it hard, being a victim of Sean John fashion, and crying in into a Tommy Hilfiger hanky that you had to have to be successful?

Edited July 7, 2011 by bushwacked

[SEC=UGA]

So, your links show a miscellaneous 25 year old college chick who just graduated with a BS get's paid as much the median salary for a teacher in WI. Well that was certainly some weak ass sauce to get all snarky and chest puffy about. I think you need to give yerself credit for disproving your theory and don't need help from anyone else.

 

Is it hard, being a victim of Sean John fashion, and crying in into a Tommy Hilfiger hanky that you had to have to be successful?

 

One day, maybe, I'll be able to prove you wrong and supply you with info that you will actually accept...

 

According to the BLS Median weekly earning for 2010 for those w. a Bachelors Degree was $1,038 ($53,976 per year)

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Secondary School Teachers in 2010 was $53,230 per year.

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Middle School Teachers in 2010 was $51,960.

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Elementary School Teachers in 2010 was $51,660.

 

If we average the three Median salaries for teachers (no, I'm not going to break it down by proportion of teachers at each level) The median salary in 2010 for teachers was $52,283.

 

Teachers work +/- 190 days per year and from what I gather from reading articles online, work roughly 38 hours per week. This works out to be roughly 1,444 hours of work.

 

Let's say the average person with a bachelors degree works 48 weeks at 40 hours per week. This works out to be 1,920 hours of work.

 

Hourly rate for teachers - $36.21

Hourly rate for Bachelors Degree holders - $28.11

 

While in total dollars those with a Bachelors degree, on average, do make more than a teacher annually, a whopping $1,692, teachers for hours worked make $8.10 more per hour than those who hold a Bachelors Degree. Further, they receive benefits that most in the private sector do not and they have the entirety of the summer off.

 

In conclusion, teachers need to stop complaining about their pay.

Edited July 7, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[gbpfan1231]

One day, maybe, I'll be able to prove you wrong and supply you with info that you will actually accept...

 

According to the BLS Median weekly earning for 2010 for those w. a Bachelors Degree was $1,038 ($53,976 per year)

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Secondary School Teachers in 2010 was $53,230 per year.

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Middle School Teachers in 2010 was $51,960.

 

According to the BLS the median annual income for Elementary School Teachers in 2010 was $51,660.

 

If we average the three Median salaries for teachers (no, I'm not going to break it down by proportion of teachers at each level) The median salary in 2010 for teachers was $52,283.

 

Teachers work +/- 190 days per year and from what I gather from reading articles online, work roughly 38 hours per week. This works out to be roughly 1,444 hours of work.

 

Let's say the average person with a bachelors degree works 48 weeks at 40 hours per week. This works out to be 1,920 hours of work.

 

Hourly rate for teachers - $36.21

Hourly rate for Bachelors Degree holders - $28.11

 

While in total dollars those with a Bachelors degree, on average, do make more than a teacher annually, a whopping $1,692, teachers for hours worked make $8.10 more per hour than those who hold a Bachelors Degree. Further, they receive benefits that most in the private sector do not and they have the entirety of the summer off.

 

In conclusion, teachers need to stop complaining about their pay.

Why can't people just accept that teachers are not really underpaid? Yes they have a job that a lot of others could and would not want to do - I accept that.

 

Even if you just look at your annual pay and disregard benefits and pension I will even say that yes maybe you are a bit underpaid - I don't think teachers have a lot of disposable income that others may have - they tend to maybe have lower annual pay and can't afford the large house and some toys but you HAVE to include the fact that you get awesome benefits and a pension.

 

Do people really just disregard what a pension does for them? For me I have a 401k - when I will be close to retirement age I will have to seriously look and analyze if I have enough money to get me and family through - when my 401k money is gone it is gone - what will I do? Probably work extra years to make sure I have it covered. With a pension you know the amount you will have an annual basis until you die - this is huge.

 

I think it was Chuck who mentioned that it will be tough to get people to want to teach after what Walker is doing - I am thinking that it is the teachers constant whining and complaining and painting the horrible picture that would make people not want to teach???

[matt770]

when my 401k money is gone it is gone - what will I do?

The toothless BJ is a very underrated marketable skill.

[SEC=UGA]

Why can't people just accept that teachers are not really underpaid? Yes they have a job that a lot of others could and would not want to do - I accept that.

 

Even if you just look at your annual pay and disregard benefits and pension I will even say that yes maybe you are a bit underpaid - I don't think teachers have a lot of disposable income that others may have - they tend to maybe have lower annual pay and can't afford the large house and some toys but you HAVE to include the fact that you get awesome benefits and a pension.

 

Do people really just disregard what a pension does for them? For me I have a 401k - when I will be close to retirement age I will have to seriously look and analyze if I have enough money to get me and family through - when my 401k money is gone it is gone - what will I do? Probably work extra years to make sure I have it covered. With a pension you know the amount you will have an annual basis until you die - this is huge.

 

I think it was Chuck who mentioned that it will be tough to get people to want to teach after what Walker is doing - I am thinking that it is the teachers constant whining and complaining and painting the horrible picture that would make people not want to teach???

 

People can't accept that teachers are not underpaid because they are out there screaming all of the time that "We are underpaid..." Where they get that load of crap from is beyond me.

 

I disagree with your assertion that excluding benefits and pension they are a bit underpayed. Per hour worked they make more than others with the same degree.

 

How do teachers not have a lot of disposable income that others have? The average Median income for a pesonwith a bachelors degree is insignificant, for a couple it equates to $282 per month (Which I am doubtful cover the extra costs that a private sector worker pays for 401K and insurance.) If you have two teachers in a household their annual household income is roughly $105K. That is $8,750per month,after taxes $5,827. A mortgage on a $250K house is $1,700 a month (they have 4,827 left after this), two car payments for a honda accord type car $500 a month each (3,827 left) Utilities and food are $1,200 per month ($2,627 left). Car insurance and cell phones $400 ($2,227 left.) If I'm forgetting anything I apologize. So, they have roughly $2K per month in disposable income.

[gbpfan1231]

The toothless BJ is a very underrated marketable skill.

Are you saying I am supposed to give you a call?

[gbpfan1231]

People can't accept that teachers are not underpaid because they are out there screaming all of the time that "We are underpaid..." Where they get that load of crap from is beyond me.

 

I disagree with your assertion that excluding benefits and pension they are a bit underpayed. Per hour worked they make more than others with the same degree.

 

How do teachers not have a lot of disposable income that others have? The average Median income for a pesonwith a bachelors degree is insignificant, for a couple it equates to $282 per month (Which I am doubtful cover the extra costs that a private sector worker pays for 401K and insurance.) If you have two teachers in a household their annual household income is roughly $105K. That is $8,750per month,after taxes $5,827. A mortgage on a $250K house is $1,700 a month (they have 4,827 left after this), two car payments for a honda accord type car $500 a month each (3,827 left) Utilities and food are $1,200 per month ($2,627 left). Car insurance and cell phones $400 ($2,227 left.) If I'm forgetting anything I apologize. So, they have roughly $2K per month in disposable income.

You forgot union dues and out of pocket paper and pencil costs.

Edited July 7, 2011 by gbpfan1231

[SEC=UGA]

You forgot union dues and out of pocket paper and pencil costs.

 

My apologies.

 

I must now change my stance on the whole thing.

 

Teachers are woefully underpaid.

[Bronco Billy]

People can't accept that teachers are not underpaid because they are out there screaming all of the time that "We are underpaid..." Where they get that load of crap from is beyond me.

 

I disagree with your assertion that excluding benefits and pension they are a bit underpayed. Per hour worked they make more than others with the same degree.

 

How do teachers not have a lot of disposable income that others have? The average Median income for a pesonwith a bachelors degree is insignificant, for a couple it equates to $282 per month (Which I am doubtful cover the extra costs that a private sector worker pays for 401K and insurance.) If you have two teachers in a household their annual household income is roughly $105K. That is $8,750per month,after taxes $5,827. A mortgage on a $250K house is $1,700 a month (they have 4,827 left after this), two car payments for a honda accord type car $500 a month each (3,827 left) Utilities and food are $1,200 per month ($2,627 left). Car insurance and cell phones $400 ($2,227 left.) Beer/Brandy $1250 per month If I'm forgetting anything I apologize. So, they have roughly $2K $750 per month in disposable income.

 

Fixed

 

We are talking about Wisconsin, right?

[gbpfan1231]

Fixed

 

We are talking about Wisconsin, right?

forgot bitters and cheese/sausage/crackers

[bpwallace49]

Do people REALLY think the issue is teachers being underpaid? Or is that just a red herring like welfare moms cruusing in Esclades while talkin on Iphones while they buy red bull and smokes?

 

Or is it more that deals were made, agreed to, and then not fulfilled by the politicians of both parties in charge of granting and then funding these unsustainable pensions?

 

If under my last contract my employers decided to just change it arbitrarily, I would have a legitimate complaint. So do teachers. It doesnt matter how many days they work, what they pay for supplies or what their pay rate currently is. What matters is that they were told "this is the deal you are getting into" and after they committed, now all of a sudden the terms are being changed. The utter stupidity of people clamoring about what a "Sweet deal" the teachers have seem to be talking out of jealousy more than intelligence.

 

What if you had a signed estimate from a contractor for work, and then after you sign it, they say . . "just kidding, you will have to pay more cause I dont have any money to buy supplies". Would you have a legitimate complaint? It may not change the fact that the terms are changing, but you still have a very real and legitimate reason for being pissed about it. Or should you just "stop whining"?

[jetsfan]

According to the BLS the median annual income for Elementary School Teachers in 2010 was $51,660.

 

I just looked up my wife's W-2 from last year, she is making just over 1/2 the median salary with a Master's degree.

Those Wisconsin teachers are overpaid

[SEC=UGA]

Do people REALLY think the issue is teachers being underpaid? Or is that just a red herring like welfare moms cruusing in Esclades while talkin on Iphones while they buy red bull and smokes?

 

Or is it more that deals were made, agreed to, and then not fulfilled by the politicians of both parties in charge of granting and then funding these unsustainable pensions?

 

If under my last contract my employers decided to just change it arbitrarily, I would have a legitimate complaint. So do teachers. It doesnt matter how many days they work, what they pay for supplies or what their pay rate currently is. What matters is that they were told "this is the deal you are getting into" and after they committed, now all of a sudden the terms are being changed. The utter stupidity of people clamoring about what a "Sweet deal" the teachers have seem to be talking out of jealousy more than intelligence.

 

What if you had a signed estimate from a contractor for work, and then after you sign it, they say . . "just kidding, you will have to pay more cause I dont have any money to buy supplies". Would you have a legitimate complaint? It may not change the fact that the terms are changing, but you still have a very real and legitimate reason for being pissed about it. Or should you just "stop whining"?

 

Well, GroundChuck stated pretty clearly that he wanted to be paid what other people with a similar education level were paid. My argument is that teachers are paid what people with a similar education level are paid. On top of that they have better benefits and receive three months of vacation per year. Interestingly enough, though, when you break it down by hours worked, teachers are actually paid MORE than what people with a similar level of education.

 

The contracts weren't changed "arbitrarily" (Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle.) The contracts are being amended out of necessity as the current manner in which teachers are being compensated is not sustainable. This is not only the case in WI, but we are seeing the same thing occur in IL, IN, OH, CA, NJ, NY, etc...

 

Most people complain about other's compensation packages out of Jealousy. Just look at all of the people bagging on the CEOs in this country. However, in this case it is not so much out of jealousy as it is the perception (and soon to be reality) that the current system of compensation can not be sustained with out it severely impacting tax paying citizens who are footing these costs. To the people who have to float these salaries and benefits there is a very real and apparent danger, if we are to keep in place the benefit structure for teachers as it is we are all going ot have to pay much higher property taxes and income taxes to the state in order to fund educators retirements and benefits. To me it's not jealousy, it is more less one wanting to hang onto more of their individual dollars.

 

Most contracts have expiration dates on them. After the contract expires it is back to the negotiating table to hammer out a new contract. It seems to me that this is merely a renegotiation of said contract.

 

In the real world of private business if someone gives me a contract as you state and then attempts to amend said contract by adding new costs to it, the previous contract is void. I then have the opportunity to renegotiate or search for another person with whom to contract. Unfortunately in the world of education there is not another group with whom you can contract should you not like the terms of the previous contract, they have you bent over a barrel as they have a monopoly on the labor. Therefore to get any concessions you only have one line of recourse, legislative action to force a renegotiation of the contract.

[jetsfan]

I just looked up my wife's W-2 from last year, she is making just over 1/2 the median salary with a Master's degree.

Those Wisconsin teachers are overpaid

ETA: Wisconsin average teacher starting salary is $25,222 according to teacherportal.com I guess their pay is comparable to Texas :kicksrockforboth:

[bpwallace49]

In the real world of private business if someone gives me a contract as you state and then attempts to amend said contract by adding new costs to it, the previous contract is void.

 

Actually I think that is called a "breach of contract" and the party that breaks the contract is liable.

 

I really dont fault the teachers one bit for wanting to get the best deal for themselves. I fault the idiot politicians of both parties that lied to them when they said they were funding these pensions and now all of a sudden "dont have any money" and who kept kicking the can down the road.

[SEC=UGA]

[/b]

 

Actually I think that is called a "breach of contract" and the party that breaks the contract is liable.

 

You are correct, I should have phrased that a bit better.

 

I too fault the politicians for green lighting most of this. But, when I see teachers not show up to work to go out and protest this it really pisses me off. When teachers drag their students down to the capital step to help them protest while said student should be in class, it pisses me off.

 

You want to protest, do it during non-school hours. Better yet, you want t complain about your deal, let your union reps do it and keep your goddamn mouth shut and do your job. You're making a complete and utter spectacle of yourself, you're being obnoxious and quite frankly you are not the type of person that I want interacting with my child.

 

Also, the teachers seem to have a complete disregard for those who are being burdened with the crushing liability of their pensions and healthcare. So long as they get theirs, the rest of us be damned. I will say one thing, though, at least when taxes go up to pay for this stuff, they'll reap some of the costs themselves.

[bpwallace49]

You are correct, I should have phrased that a bit better.

 

I too fault the politicians for green lighting most of this. But, when I see teachers not show up to work to go out and protest this it really pisses me off. When teachers drag their students down to the capital step to help them protest while said student should be in class, it pisses me off.

 

You want to protest, do it during non-school hours. Better yet, you want t complain about your deal, let your union reps do it and keep your goddamn mouth shut and do your job. You're making a complete and utter spectacle of yourself, you're being obnoxious and quite frankly you are not the type of person that I want interacting with my child.

 

Also, the teachers seem to have a complete disregard for those who are being burdened with the crushing liability of their pensions and healthcare. So long as they get theirs, the rest of us be damned. I will say one thing, though, at least when taxes go up to pay for this stuff, they'll reap some of the costs themselves.

 

I agree with you on the protests, and I have never been in favor of teacher unions. I have been very consistent on that issue.

 

If you had to take a cut in your pay/benefits, would you do so out of a "regard for who pays those bills"? I am pretty sure that everyone looks out for their family and #1 first and foremost. That seems to be . .. well . . . EVERYONE and a part of human nature.

 

You make a point about CEOs. Those ppl have millions of dollars in stock options and golden parachutes. Teachers make . . what? Mid 40s? 50's? Yet we begrudge TEACHERS for having a sweet deal?

[Ursa Majoris]

you want t complain about your deal, let your union reps do it

Pretty sure Mr Walker has disallowed this, hasn't he?

[Ground Chuck]

Well, GroundChuck stated pretty clearly that he wanted to be paid what other people with a similar education level were paid. My argument is that teachers are paid what people with a similar education level are paid. On top of that they have better benefits and receive three months of vacation per year. Interestingly enough, though, when you break it down by hours worked, teachers are actually paid MORE than what people with a similar level of education.

 

The contracts weren't changed "arbitrarily" (Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle.) The contracts are being amended out of necessity as the current manner in which teachers are being compensated is not sustainable. This is not only the case in WI, but we are seeing the same thing occur in IL, IN, OH, CA, NJ, NY, etc...

 

Most people complain about other's compensation packages out of Jealousy. Just look at all of the people bagging on the CEOs in this country. However, in this case it is not so much out of jealousy as it is the perception (and soon to be reality) that the current system of compensation can not be sustained with out it severely impacting tax paying citizens who are footing these costs. To the people who have to float these salaries and benefits there is a very real and apparent danger, if we are to keep in place the benefit structure for teachers as it is we are all going ot have to pay much higher property taxes and income taxes to the state in order to fund educators retirements and benefits. To me it's not jealousy, it is more less one wanting to hang onto more of their individual dollars.

 

Most contracts have expiration dates on them. After the contract expires it is back to the negotiating table to hammer out a new contract. It seems to me that this is merely a renegotiation of said contract.

 

In the real world of private business if someone gives me a contract as you state and then attempts to amend said contract by adding new costs to it, the previous contract is void. I then have the opportunity to renegotiate or search for another person with whom to contract. Unfortunately in the world of education there is not another group with whom you can contract should you not like the terms of the previous contract, they have you bent over a barrel as they have a monopoly on the labor. Therefore to get any concessions you only have one line of recourse, legislative action to force a renegotiation of the contract.

 

Looking back to the post I believe that I quoted Caddyman and said to pay me the average if he was going to have me work his 50 week work year.

 

If you think that most GOOD teachers work the same hours that you have outlined you're sadly mistaken. In fact just today, on my summer "vacation", I spent two hours this morning creating a spread sheet and setting up meetings to discuss placement of four math students for the next school year. After school meetings, preparation, concerts, open houses, training, assessment review and learning plan implementation, parent meetings, continuing education to maintain licensure, and grading are just a few things that go well beyond your clock hours. Because of their busy after school schedules, I have many students who need to make up work that they didn't finish at home. It's not my fault that some parents put baseball, soccer, dance, basketball, or whatever ahead of schoolwork but it is still my responsibility to get those students caught up. I am judged on their performance. I routinely spend lunch or after-school time working with students. Which pushes even more work after hours.

 

It's a trade off SEC, if you want us to work your hours fine. My brightest and best will continue to shine. But the ones who need more attention will not get it.

 

I'm all for year round school. It will improve scores and more than likely keep some kids out of trouble. But how is WI going to afford it?

 

Look, all I know is that my monthly income is dropping $450 come Sept. in order to balance a roughly 10% budget cut. In 2012 we are projected to have a 9% budget cut. That rightly concerns me. I entered this thread to dispute that everything is now "hunky-dory" in WI. Not once did I whine, I did however shed light on the situation in WI by presenting facts and sharing my fears.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Ground Chuck

[SEC=UGA]

I agree with you on the protests, and I have never been in favor of teacher unions. I have been very consistent on that issue.

 

If you had to take a cut in your pay/benefits, would you do so out of a "regard for who pays those bills"? I am pretty sure that everyone looks out for their family and #1 first and foremost. That seems to be . .. well . . . EVERYONE and a part of human nature.

 

You make a point about CEOs. Those ppl have millions of dollars in stock options and golden parachutes. Teachers make . . what? Mid 40s? 50's? Yet we begrudge TEACHERS for having a sweet deal?

 

I've taken a pretty significant pay cut to keep from laying people off, but, hey, it had to be done and will be better for the company when things turn around.

 

I don't begrudge them for the deal they have. I do get pissed off when they start saying that the deal isn't that great and the only reason they take this not so great deal is because they "want to affect change in people's lives. We want to feel the reward of shaping a mind..." But, if you cut any part of my package, which already sucked, by the way, because I don't make as much as (insert profession here) and they don't have to deal with what I deal with, I may just quit teaching... (when in reality a good many of them make as much as what ever profession they insert into that line.)

 

Fine, quit teaching and take your credentials elsewhere and see exactly what kind of offers you get...

 

Further, CEOs are paid in the private realm. It is private dollars that fund those salaries, dollars that are given of the free will of investors and consumers. Teachers are paid by monies confiscated from tax payers. If a company runs out of money, it goes bankrupt (in most cases) and the CEO is out on his ass until he finds another gig. If the school starts to run out of money, well, it can't just fold up and go away, it is a government entity, the school/politicians will raise taxes in order to get more revenue. This would continue to go on until people have finally had enough and put an end to the insanity.

[SEC=UGA]

Looking back to the post I believe that I quoted Caddyman and said to pay me the average if he was going to have me work his 50 week work year.

 

If you think that most GOOD teachers work the same hours that you have outlined you're sadly mistaken. In fact just today, on my summer "vacation", I spent two hours this morning creating a spread sheet and setting up meetings to discuss placement of four math students for the next school year. After school meetings, preparation, concerts, open houses, training, assessment review and learning plan implementation, parent meetings, continuing education to maintain licensure, and grading are just a few things that go well beyond your clock hours. Because of their busy after school schedules, I have many students who need to make up work that they didn't finish at home. It's not my fault that some parents put baseball, soccer, dance, basketball, or whatever ahead of schoolwork but it is still my responsibility to get those students caught up. I am judged on their performance. I routinely spend lunch or after-school time working with students. Which pushes even more work after hours.

 

It's a trade off SEC, if you want us to work your hours fine. My brightest and best will continue to shine. But the ones who need more attention will not get it.

 

I'm all for year round school. It will improve scores and more than likely keep some kids out of trouble. But how is WI going to afford it?

 

Look, all I know is that my monthly income is dropping $450 come Sept. in order to balance a roughly 10% budget cut. In 2012 we are projected to have a 9% budget cut. That rightly concerns me. I entered this thread to dispute that everything is now "hunky-dory" in WI. Not once did I whine, I did however shed light on the situation in WI by presenting facts and sharing my fears.

 

Would you find another job if you were to have to work 40 hours a week for 48 weeks out of the year and make the same pay? Afterall, that is what people with similar levels of education are making. They don't get the same benefits as you with regard to pension and healthcare, they pay that extra $450 a month to support those things.

 

Say you did work 40 hours a week for 48 weeks per year, I think that would add 470 hours to your work load. How is that you could not use this extra 470 hours, 12 weeks, to help those who need more attention?

 

WI is going to afford it by not increasing your salary. The decision now rests with you as to whether you are willing to do the job you currently have or try to find another job in the private sector that will pay you comparable dollars.

 

I apologize if I took your post out of context and mischaracterized you and your intentions.

[SEC=UGA]

Pretty sure Mr Walker has disallowed this, hasn't he?

 

He has now. I guess their only avenue now is to create utter chaos and make a circus side show out of their plight.

[bpwallace49]

I've taken a pretty significant pay cut to keep from laying people off, but, hey, it had to be done and will be better for the company when things turn around. Name one administrator or principal . . hell . . any POLITICAN that has done the same thing. TIA

 

I don't begrudge them for the deal they have. I do get pissed off when they start saying that the deal isn't that great and the only reason they take this not so great deal is because they "want to affect change in people's lives. We want to feel the reward of shaping a mind..." But, if you cut any part of my package, which already sucked, by the way, because I don't make as much as (insert profession here) and they don't have to deal with what I deal with, I may just quit teaching... (when in reality a good many of them make as much as what ever profession they insert into that line.) You are perpetrating a sterotype. Just like the "Welfare queens" with Escalades. Because someone gets into teaching, then they should be targeted everytime the politicians face a shortage due to some of their own incompetence? We shopuld have a mob vote on every public employee compensation? cmon maaaan . . . Fine, screw you, quit fu(king teaching and take your credentials elsewhere and see exactly what kind of offers you get...

 

Further, CEOs are paid in the private realm. It is private dollars that fund those salaries, dollars that are given of the free will of investors and consumers. Teachers are paid by monies confiscated from tax payers. If a company runs out of money, it goes bankrupt (in most cases) and the CEO is out on his ass until he finds another gig. If the school starts to run out of money, well, it can't just fold up and go away, it is a government entity, the school/politicians will raise taxes in order to get more revenue. This would continue to go on until people have finally had enough and put an end to the insanity. Again . . you are focusing in on the lower rungs of the ladder instead of fixing the problem at the top. I have three kids, and while I can see a " I pay TAXES" attitude from others, schools are a valuable resource and teachers at my kids school have been outstanding. When have multiple, multiple levels of redundant positions in local state and federal gubmnet, when we have millions of dollars wasted on pork projects, gutting the quality of teachers by making it less attractive as a profession is much lower on my reduce gubment list.

[gbpfan1231]

Do people REALLY think the issue is teachers being underpaid? Or is that just a red herring like welfare moms cruusing in Esclades while talkin on Iphones while they buy red bull and smokes?

 

Or is it more that deals were made, agreed to, and then not fulfilled by the politicians of both parties in charge of granting and then funding these unsustainable pensions?

 

If under my last contract my employers decided to just change it arbitrarily, I would have a legitimate complaint. So do teachers. It doesnt matter how many days they work, what they pay for supplies or what their pay rate currently is. What matters is that they were told "this is the deal you are getting into" and after they committed, now all of a sudden the terms are being changed. The utter stupidity of people clamoring about what a "Sweet deal" the teachers have seem to be talking out of jealousy more than intelligence.

 

What if you had a signed estimate from a contractor for work, and then after you sign it, they say . . "just kidding, you will have to pay more cause I dont have any money to buy supplies". Would you have a legitimate complaint? It may not change the fact that the terms are changing, but you still have a very real and legitimate reason for being pissed about it. Or should you just "stop whining"?

I will stop harping on this under two conditions....

 

1. Teachers stop whining that they are underpaid and work hours over and above what they are supposed to. The whole point is we all do!!! I have worked every weekend for an hour because we have weekly numbers due into Europe that is required to be in by morning on Monday Switzerland time. Part of my job so I do it.

 

2. You or Borge or Yukon or Ground Chuck come up with another solution to get Wisconsin out of the mess we are in where it does not make teachers upset and does not raise our already high taxes.