Azazello1313 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Atrifically increasing gas prices based on potential damage to infrastructure is not profiteering? 1101859[/snapback] how is it artificial? have fun explaining that.. here's an example of what profiteering really looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If one has a bunch of trashed refineries then the price of gas going up makes complete sense. Jacking up the price of gas because refineries might get jacked up while earning a $10,000,000,000.00 profit is BS. How bad did those refineries get f*cked up anyways? I only ask because based on the price of gas right now, they got them fixed pretty fast. Continue to sell coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Atrifically increasing gas prices based on potential damage to infrastructure is not profiteering? 1101859[/snapback] It's called covering your ass, and good business sense. Though the price was not artificially increased. Price was increased as the futures of the comodity started to increase. Once the damage assesment was done the price was decreaseed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Once the damage assesment was done the price was decreaseed. 1101913[/snapback] Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 They ought to break up Exxon into 10 small gas companies like At@t did with all the baby bells 20 yrs back. That would end most of this profiteering and end the monopoly, and lower prices with competition. 1101894[/snapback] i didn't realize exxon was a monopoly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundaynfl Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The markets set the price of commodities, if a company raises it's prices then the traders buy their oil, gas or wheat from someone else. The traders in the pits unfortunately buy or sell on what they hear and will always cover their arses much quicker than they are willing to expose them and take risk. Some of you should take an economics class at the free university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 if exxon raised their prices and the market (i.e., everyone else, both sellers and buyers) didn't, then exxon wouldn't sell any gas and wouldn't make any profit. 1101855[/snapback] Right... except that Mobile looks across the street and sees Exxon upping their price and says, "Whoopie! The fix is in! Jack up our prices too!!" Later than night the two managers meet at a strip club and laugh. Whatever. I'm all for high gas prices. I love seeing SUVs getting repossessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I completely understand the concept of supply and demand, but at what cost. When the rest of the country is suffering with inflated prices for fuel and natural gas, at the expense of a natural disaster, God forbid the gas companies from feeling the same disaster like the rest of us. Changing from orange juice to milk or apple juice is quiet a bit easier than trading in your vehicle for a hybrid, or walking, riding a bike to work. If farmers applied the same supply and demand formula to the way they did business they wouldnt be going out of business every year. But they don't dictate that market as their are so many farmers the consumer can go with the cheapest cost and get the best product for less. Its called competition that the gas companies do not have to deal with. If Exxon was broken up into 10 more companies and refineries were spread out instead of most all of them in the US in the gulf, the prices would be minimum a $1 per gallon cheaper right now. 1101936[/snapback] Wow I never figured you'd side with the socialist party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Right... except that Mobile looks across the street and sees Exxon upping their price and says, "Whoopie! The fix is in! Jack up our prices too!!" Later than night the two managers meet at a strip club and laugh.1101930[/snapback] and if they're jacking the prices "articficially", then the guy at shell will see them and say "look at these worry-wort morans...i can keep my prices 10 cents less than theirs and still keep a good margin, and i'll sell 10 times as much gas as them and my profits will go through the roof and they won't sell chit. i'll put the dumbasses out of business". but if that's what the price really is, they can't really do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The markets set the price of commodities, if a company raises it's prices then the traders buy their oil, gas or wheat from someone else. 1101929[/snapback] Not if everyone raises their prices. Then they all have to pay the same or not buy the commodity. Get back to class. The question is why was the price of the comodity raised? In a pre-emptive strike against Katrina big oil engaged in proifiteering and price fixing (I didn't make these terms up min you) to shore up their companies in anticipation of the stockpiles of potential damage that would be wreaked by Katrina. It was excessive obviously as the price has gone down. Excessive to the tune of $10,000,000,000.00 profit for Exxon and who knows how much to the commodity traders who are the ones that drove the whole increase to begin with. I'm starting to think, at minimum, I am deserving of a $14.00 rebate coupon on my next purchase of Exxon unleaded. Unlike Spree, I'd use it. After all , the price went up in anticipation of damage that never occurred. Seems artificial to me but I haven't taken a lunch break yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 if exxon raised their prices and the market (i.e., everyone else, both sellers and buyers) didn't, then exxon wouldn't sell any gas and wouldn't make any profit. 1101855[/snapback] Az, invoking the market does not deflect allegations of profiteering. The demand for bottled water goes up prior to and during a hurricane too. Rasing the price of a $1 bottle of water to $3 due to increased demand from a hurricane is, in fact, the definition of profiteering. Yes, if you raise your prices and no one else does, you price yourself out of the market. But when all of the big oil companies raise their prises due to the opportunity, and reap a big profit, that is (successful) profiteering ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Im siding with my pocketbook. This time last yr I spent around 200 a month for Gas for me and my wife and 200 for gas and electric. This yr my gas for me and the wife is around 500 and the electirc and gas is 300. So in a yrs time my fuel consumption went from $400 a month to $800 a month. I cant ask my boss for a cost of living raise every time there is a hurricane in the gulf. 1101964[/snapback] well according to perch that would be Business Savvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 After all , the price went up in anticipation of damage that never occurred. Seems artificial to me but I haven't taken a lunch break yet. 1101958[/snapback] How many of the refineries in LA and SE Tex that were closed are back up and running? Just because it isn't as bad as they thought it would be doesn't mean that it wasn't bad. It will be very interesting to see what their profits/losses are for the next quater, due to deminished refining capacity. Like Az said, the higher gas prices will actually hurt them in the long run as it makes people look more at hybrids and more fuel efficient cars, which will end up lowering the demand. If you don't like paying a lot for gas, use public transportation (at least some of my tax dollars will be used by someone else that contributes) or give up the SUV and buy a Kia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Im siding with my pocketbook. This time last yr I spent around $200 a month for Gasoline for me and my wife and $200 for gas and electric. This yr my gasoline for me and the wife is around $500 and the electirc and gas is $300. So in a yrs time my fuel consumption went from $400 a month to $800 a month. I cant ask my boss for a cost of living raise every time there is a hurricane in the gulf/ or fear of damage to petroleum companies. 1101964[/snapback] You don't have a cash reserve? I generally keep a prudent reserve equall to about 9 months of my income. But hey if you want to trash capitalism because you didn't take care of your self, go buy some Birkenstocks and a Kia and hang with Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Az, invoking the market does not deflect allegations of profiteering. The demand for bottled water goes up prior to and during a hurricane too. Rasing the price of a $1 bottle of water to $3 due to increased demand from a hurricane is, in fact, the definition of profiteering. Yes, if you raise your prices and no one else does, you price yourself out of the market. But when all of the big oil companies raise their prises due to the opportunity, and reap a big profit, that is (successful) profiteering ... 1101972[/snapback] Yes, but the hurricane only affects the short term supply of bottled water, it didn't affect the mountain springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If you don't like paying a lot for gas, use public transportation (at least some of my tax dollars will be used by someone else that contributes) or give up the SUV and buy a Kia. 1101978[/snapback] Seeing as my Kia followed yer Lexus SUV to Bennigans or wherever I don't know where that comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) You don't have a cash reserve? I generally keep a prudent reserve equall to about 9 months of my income. But hey if you want to trash capitalism because you didn't take care of your self, go buy some Birkenstocks and a Kia and hang with Club. 1101987[/snapback] ha most of the u.s. doesnt have have that momo, in fact most are in dept.. see they are taking the goverments leed and spending what they dont have on stuff they dont need and neglecting the things they shouldn't jebus i type bad Edited October 27, 2005 by Yukon Cornelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Seeing as my Kia followed yer Lexus SUV to Bennigans or wherever I don't know where that comes from. 1101996[/snapback] I was just giving you hell Club, but you might want to look into public transportation, your paying for it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Right... except that Mobile looks across the street and sees Exxon upping their price and says, "Whoopie! The fix is in! Jack up our prices too!!" Later than night the two managers meet at a strip club and laugh. 1101930[/snapback] Why stop at $2 or $3 per gallon then? Why not $5 or $10 per gallon? Heck, make it an even Franklin! I completely understand the concept of supply and demand, but at what cost. When the rest of the country is suffering with inflated prices for fuel and natural gas, at the expense of a natural disaster, God forbid the gas companies from feeling the same disaster like the rest of us. Changing from orange juice to milk or apple juice is quiet a bit easier than trading in your vehicle for a hybrid, or walking, riding a bike to work. If farmers applied the same supply and demand formula to the way they did business they wouldnt be going out of business every year. But they don't dictate that market as their are so many farmers the consumer can go with the cheapest cost and get the best product for less. Its called competition that the gas companies do not have to deal with. If Exxon was broken up into 10 more companies and refineries were spread out instead of most all of them in the US in the gulf, the prices would be minimum a $1 per gallon cheaper right now. 1101936[/snapback] But according to Atomic, it doesn't matter how many gas companies there are. If they see that one can raise the price, they all will, similar to pizza shops and shoe stores...it's all one big oligopoly from industry to industry! What is your evidence that gas prices would change at all under your proposal? I'm not condemning what you're saying Sarge, but what you're suggesting is a society where everybody thrives and suffers equally, and those economies don't work...never have...never will. They're a plague to innovation and entrepreneurship. Besides, how many gas companies is the right number to have? 20, 100, 1,000? At what point are there enough that they allegedly become price competitive? What happens to the economies of scale achieved by the bigger ones? If one large company could process or purchase raw materials / gas far cheaper than a little company, will that not impact our price at the pump. Great, there's more competiion, but lesser buying power...not sure you've changed anything. Also, I think it's great to set up additional refining capabilities, but the same people arguing that gas costs too much are also complaining about the environmental ramifications of additional development. They can't have it both ways! If word got out that the Avian flu may be in the U.S., would you expect health care premiums to rise, fall, stay the same? Heaven forbid there is an epidemic of Avian flu, insurance companies may not be able to cover the benefits expense unless premiums are increased. They don't increase premiums collectively, they do it autonomously because they are trying to stay afloat, and yes - still make money for all their investors and creditors. Farmers...well, let's just say I think there are better uses for human capital than to have as many subsidized farmers as we do. And as for all the people suffering because of the hurricanes...it's not the government that provides the greatest level of financial support, it's those big bad corporations like Wal*mart and Home Depot, etc., and yes - some of the gas companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Seeing as my Kia followed yer Lexus SUV to Bennigans or wherever I don't know where that comes from. 1101996[/snapback] perch drives a lexus.... one more notch in the HOMO belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 You don't have a cash reserve? I generally keep a prudent reserve equall to about 9 months of my income. But hey if you want to trash capitalism because you didn't take care of your self, go buy some Birkenstocks and a Kia and hang with Club. 1101987[/snapback] So I'm an idiot for not having $90,000.00 in a saving's account? I think more or less I don't have a savings account with $90,000.00 in it because my Dad was busing serving his country in Vietnam and not hanging out in Nolan Ryan's hotel. How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Yes, but the hurricane only affects the short term supply of bottled water, it didn't affect the mountain springs. 1101991[/snapback] Well, this is wrong in that the demand from a hurricane results in a dwindling supply ... therefore the opportunity to profit ... But also, what you are saying is that profiteering is okay if you are concerned that your supply source of goods may be interrupted? Thats just wrong ... prices go up based on cost after supply is effected/diminished, not before ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Farmers...well, let's just say I think there are better uses for human capital than to have as many subsidized farmers as we do. we dont subsidize oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 ha most of the u.s. doesnt have have that momo, in fact most are in dept.. see they are taking the goverments lead ans pending what they dont have on stuff they dont need and neglecting the thinkgs that are needed. 1102000[/snapback] So they should give up The Ticket, Direct TV, X-Box, gold chains, fishing boats, ski boats, gold teeth, and Sooner gear or stop bitching about the cost of a commodity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Well, this is wrong in that the demand from a hurricane results in a dwindling supply ... therefore the opportunity to profit ... But also, what you are saying is that profiteering is okay if you are concerned that your supply source of goods may be interrupted? Thats just wrong ... prices go up based on cost after supply is effected/diminished, not before ... 1102009[/snapback] Thanks for the clarification. I though Katrina hit Saudi Arabia for some reason after reading Perch's reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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