Cunning Linguist Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Yes, but the hurricane only affects the short term supply of bottled water, it didn't affect the mountain springs. 1101991[/snapback] However, the emissions from the flippin SUVs may be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 So they should give up The Ticket, Direct TV, X-Box, gold chains, fishing boats, ski boats, gold teeth, and Sooner gear or stop bitching about the cost of a commodity. 1102017[/snapback] Or maybe Exxon could give up a $10,000,000,000.00 quarterly profits so that hurricanes don't cause gas prices to skyrocket before they ever hit land. That would certainly be an option as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Az, invoking the market does not deflect allegations of profiteering. The demand for bottled water goes up prior to and during a hurricane too. Rasing the price of a $1 bottle of water to $3 due to increased demand from a hurricane is, in fact, the definition of profiteering. Yes, if you raise your prices and no one else does, you price yourself out of the market. But when all of the big oil companies raise their prises due to the opportunity, and reap a big profit, that is (successful) profiteering ... 1101972[/snapback] that sort of gouging (the bottled water scenario) can really only occur on a very micro level, unless there is some sort of VERY severe pressure on the larger economy (like the great depression, or a coup d'etat or something). somebody charging 10 bucks a gallon along the corridor leading out of houston as rita approached....that would indeed be gouging or profiteering or whatever; it is and should be illegal. but prices going up 10-15% nationwide (nay, worldwide) in anticipation of major drilling and refining centers being hit and dramatically affecting supply...that's just how the market works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 of course I have cash reserve, but why should I have to use it to line the pocketbooks of gas companies instead of emergencies to my family, or repairs to my home or vehicle. 1102034[/snapback] maybe because the alternative is politicians and bureaucrats deciding how much everything is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 of course I have cash reserve, but why should I have to use it to line the pocketbooks of gas companies instead of emergencies to my family, or repairs to my home or vehicle. 1102034[/snapback] Uh I don't know maybe because you want to haul around your boat in that big truck of yours? Either the free market works or it doesn't whitch is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 that sort of gouging (the bottled water scenario) can really only occur on a very micro level, unless there is some sort of VERY severe pressure on the larger economy (like the great depression, or a coup d'etat or something). somebody charging 10 bucks a gallon along the corridor leading out of houston as rita approached....that would indeed be gouging or profiteering or whatever; it is and should be illegal. but prices going up 10-15% nationwide (nay, worldwide) in anticipation of major drilling and refining centers being hit and dramatically affecting supply...that's just how the market works. 1102039[/snapback] We are doing a lot of things pre-emptively in anticipation of some harm now days. Funny how those prices go up 10-15% worldwide. Why is that? You going to now try and tell me that China refines the oil it buys from OPEC off the Louisiana coast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Or maybe Exxon could give up a $10,000,000,000.00 quarterly profits so that hurricanes don't cause gas prices to skyrocket before they ever hit land. That would certainly be an option as well. 1102031[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 We are doing a lot of things pre-emptively in anticipation of some harm now days. Funny how those prices go up 10-15% worldwide. Why is that? You going to now try and tell me that China refines the oil it buys from OPEC off the Louisiana coast? 1102052[/snapback] No, but our rigs beigng down in the gulf cause us to have to buy more foriegn oil which increase the cost of raw crude world wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Thats just wrong ... prices go up based on cost after supply is effected/diminished, not before ... 1102009[/snapback] I disagree Beau. First of all, you can't dictate when prices go up. Pricing products and services is not a science, nor is it always rational. Second of all, I guess my Avian flu example didn't get the point across, so we'll try another one...if you are a stockholder in a public company and you get word that the company is on the brink of a cure for cancer, do you buy more of the stock right then and there or when the FDA verifies the drug? If you answered the latter, you are too late! Prices rise and fall based on anticipated events; they don't wait for the event to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 we dont subsidize oil 1102013[/snapback] What in the world are you talking about Yukon? And if the government does subsidize oil, what would happen if it stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Or maybe Exxon could give up a $10,000,000,000.00 quarterly profits so that hurricanes don't cause gas prices to skyrocket before they ever hit land. That would certainly be an option as well. 1102031[/snapback] Because more than likely Exxon is self insured, and will need those profits to help rebuild the drilling platforms and to bring the refineries back on line. They gave $3 Million to the Katrina relief effort on Sept. 27, I don't know if they have given anything else or not. Rememer Exxon is a business and the main function of any business is to make money for its owner/investors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 No, but our rigs beigng down in the gulf cause us to have to buy more foriegn oil which increase the cost of raw crude world wide. 1102058[/snapback] That covers gas going up after the damage is done by the hurricane, not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 That covers gas going up after the damage is done by the hurricane, not before. 1102076[/snapback] Go read up on futures trading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 What in the world are you talking about Yukon? And if the government does subsidize oil, what would happen if it stopped? 1102060[/snapback] ah didnt something just pass that will give the oil companies a ton of money and tax breaks??? :doah: nothing would happen they would make 5 billion instead of 10 and the poloticians that are backed buy them would need to find another cash cow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Prices rise and fall based on anticipated events; they don't wait for the event to occur. 1102059[/snapback] Like an anticipated opportunity to price gouge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Go read up on futures trading. 1102088[/snapback] but is gas the same as orange juice or pork bellies.. and if it is should it be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Like an anticipated opportunity to price gouge? 1102095[/snapback] yah think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Because more than likely Exxon is self insured, and will need those profits to help rebuild the drilling platforms and to bring the refineries back on line. They gave $3 Million to the Katrina relief effort on Sept. 27, I don't know if they have given anything else or not. Rememer Exxon is a business and the main function of any business is to make money for its owner/investors. 1102075[/snapback] My main function is not to try and save up $90,000.00 so that Exxon can chew away at that while they make a $10,000,000,000.00 profit everytime a hurricane hits NO. I've got what I've got in my savings account now in anticipation of SS not being there so we could outspend the USSR. You want me to dip into that money to keep Exxon afloat fine, I'm not that much of a communist but to dig into it so that Exxon can be plus 10 billion, f*ck that. When is Exxon going to pay the price for defeating the russians? I'll agree that Exxon's 4th quarter should be interesting. Now, why would Exxon spend that $10,000,000,000.00 profit to fix refineries in the 4th quarter when they could just increase the cost of gas to offset those expenses? Why has the price of gas gone down faster than my white blood cell count since Labor Day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaumont Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The problem is that you guys are trying to explain the price going up by saying thats the market, and the laws prohibiting profiteering are market-interfering mechanisms ... they say you cant raise prices just becuase an emergency has hit ... The issue of whether we should be totally free market vs. having restraints on the market is a different debate than whether raising prices based on anticipated emergency is profiteering (it is ... obviously, ergo the $10 bil profit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 would Exxon spend that $10,000,000,000.00 profit to fix refineries in the 4th quarter when they could just increase the cost of gas to offset those expenses? exactly...which do you think will happen???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I don't care much more about the oil companies gouging us because it's beyond my power to actually do something about it other than drastically change much of my lifestyle (which could be happening to ALL of us sooner than we would like to believe). I'm more concerned that the price of Rosie O'Donnell doesn't go up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 ah didnt something just pass that will give the oil companies a ton of money and tax breaks??? :doah: nothing would happen they would make 5 billion instead of 10 and the poloticians that are backed buy them would need to find another cash cow 1102093[/snapback] As it's been suggested several times, you don't like the price, don't buy it! You think you're being taken advantage of, don't give them your business. This isn't a difficult concept. And if you want to say the energy bill is a bad idea, that's fine...you're entitled to your opinion. But don't forget that the bill also includes ethanol mandates sponsored by the liberal environmentalists (no chance for an oxymoron there) and adherence to non-attainment formulas. Both of these initiatives drive up the cost of refinement. I'm guessing you want the gas companies to eat that added cost? Perhaps we can turn back the clock 30 years and place artificial price caps on gas prices...that worked out well, didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Gigantes Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 god you're f'ing dense. one more time. yes, gas prices went up "before we even knew how bad the damage was". that is exactly my point. there's a big f'n hurricane (or two) parked just off the drilling and refining hub of the country, and the market tends to assume the worst. this is exactly what i've said 3 times now. to the extent reality is anything less damaging to their supply capabilities than the market's worst fears, then the suppliers are going to reap a short term boost in profits. and really, energy companies HAVE to err on that side of the speculation game because if they err on the other side and anticipate too little disruption in their supply capabilities, then you end up with shortages, gas lines and the like, which would REALLY be bad for the economy and the everyday consumer. but rather than try and understand how the market works and why, let's just get all indignant and say they're stealing 1101815[/snapback] Az stop it. You;re not supposed to make more sense than my left wing bretheren. Guess it serves me right for double majoring in econ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Gigantes Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I'm more concerned that the price of Rosie O'Donnell doesn't go up... 1102139[/snapback] the best things in life are free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Gigantes Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 the answer is investing in renewable enrgy, wind, solar, etc. Short term.. the fischer-prost (sp?) process for creating synthetic fuel out of coal is promissing and environmentally friendly (solid waste as opposed to emissions in the air) and will help the US economy and reduce our dependence on so called friends like the saudis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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