Domanick Davis - ongoing knee problems

[Swiss Cheezhead]

:sigh: x 2

 

Unfortunately it is the part I'm debating. You should pay better attention.

 

:sigh: x 2

 

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Ok, then.

[Big Score 1]

Ok, then.

 

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x 2

[Menudo]

x 2

 

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Glad to see this turn lighhearted.......I think we've all got to admit that this is one of the silliest arguments ever.....what's done is done and we will find out the results soon enough.

[Azazello1313]

Glad to see this turn lighhearted.......I think we've all got to admit that this is one of the silliest arguments ever.....what's done is done and we will find out the results soon enough.

 

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unless bill leavy gets involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Menudo]

unless bill leavy gets involved.

 

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Never heard of him..........

 

Is he that homo QB for the Broncos that threw that bonehead interception at the end of the 1st half in the AFC Championship game ? That guy is a dope, and if he were my favorite team's QB, I would give up all hopes of a championship.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Menudo

[Ziachild007]

Whats the bet?

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Bumpy for Hook

[Menudo]

Bumpy for Hook

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He was talking about a bet that he offered pre-draft.....

[Ziachild007]

He was talking about a bet that he offered pre-draft.....

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Which was???

[Menudo]

Which was???

 

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He wanted to do a sig bet on whether Bush would go #1 in the draft. He would have lost, but, no one took him up on it.

[i_am_the_swammi]

er, um, concerning the original topic...from today's Houston Chronicle, via Fanball:

 

Domanick Davis is sitting out the Texans' organized workouts while rehabbing his surgically repaired left knee, but he plans to be available for the start of the team's minicamp June 7. "We knew before that it would be a long process before I'd be back," Davis told the Houston Chronicle. "Now I can run, but they don't want me to run too much and aggravate it all over again. So we're just taking our time with it and being careful about the whole situation."

 

Again, sounds like typical rehab to me...June workouts will be exactly 6 months post-surgery.

Edited May 20, 2006 by i_am_the_swammi

[Big Score 1]

Here's the full article behind the quickie blurb swammi provided.

 

Texans' Davis taking it slow after knee surgery

 

Domanick Davis rarely strays far from his fellow running backs during Texans practices. He puts on his helmet and clutches a small booklet that keeps him informed of everything that's going on.

 

He knows coach Gary Kubiak's philosophy on running backs — one cut and get down the field. He is learning the plays. And he's ready to help Texans fans move past the fact the team bypassed Reggie Bush in the NFL draft.

 

Davis won't prove he deserves the Texans' starting job this week or next, though. The Texans are still being cautious as Davis tries to rebound from knee problems that sidelined him for five games last year. Inflammation in his left knee led to arthroscopic surgery in late December, and he is just now starting to run.

 

"We knew before that it would be a long process before I'd be back," said Davis, who fell 24 yards shy of his third consecutive 1,000-yard rushing season in 2005. "Now, I can run. But they don't want me to run too much and aggravate it all over again. So we're just taking our time with it and being careful about the whole situation."

 

When the rest of his teammates started their conditioning programs eight weeks ago, Davis was still unable to run. The Texans say his knee is now completely healed.

 

They didn't want him practicing this week without the conditioning drills, however, so he's starting from the beginning as he tries

to strengthen his knee. Davis is working daily with the trainers on running, stretching and riding the stationary bike.

 

"I know he's been doing everything that he can do to get well," Kubiak said. "We are being somewhat cautious with him. He's a proven player. As long as he's out here understanding what we're doing, hopefully we'll get a couple of weeks of work out of him before we take a break. I'm not worried about Domanick. I expect him to play well for us."

 

Davis still hopes to be able to go full tilt with his teammates when the first minicamp begins June 7. He could be ready sooner, but the Texans are wary of putting him out there too early since Davis has a history of injury problems.

 

"That's why we have to have our schedule set up so we can give him all the opportunities to practice well and get himself ready, but also be smart enough to know if he's tired or if he's been on his legs too long, you give him rest," running backs coach Chick Harris said. "That's what we're trying to do. We want to make sure that he's the healthiest he can be, but not eliminate his work to get him in good shape for football."

 

While the Texans wait for Davis, they continue to try to strengthen the depth behind him. Talks continue with the New Orleans Saints with the hopes of working out a trade for running back Michael Bennett.

 

At this point, the Texans' top backup is veteran Antowain Smith, 34. Despite being more of a situational back at this point in his career, Smith is used to being asked to take on larger roles. Last year, he filled in for the injured Deuce McAllister and started seven games for the Saints. He was in a similar situation with the Tennessee Titans in 2004, starting four games in place of Chris Brown.

 

Behind Smith are inexperienced backs, like second-year player Vernand Morency and rookie Wali Lundy. Morency is trying to adapt to the new system and earn the No. 3 spot behind Smith. But he must change his running style first.

 

"He's more of a shifty-type runner, and that's not what we want him to do," Kubiak said of Morency. "We tell them they get one cut and then they have to get the ball downfield. He's being told a few different things than maybe he's been told in the past, but he's responded well and practiced well."

[CaptainHook]

I'm certainly not going to make a bet on something like this.  I save sigline bets for Steeler games..... 

 

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You lost that bet, remember?

 

I felt that not taking Bush was the right thing to do, and I hoped the Texans would do, what, in my opinion was the right thing to do.  You were the one that was ranting that there was no way NOT taking Bush would even be a thought.

 

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Actually I was ranting about how DD owners were all convinced that taking Bush was a bad move and that D'Brickashaw Ferguson was the better pick.

 

If you are really trying to say that the Texans had Bush ranked above Williams and didn't pick him because of signability, you are REALLY reaching.  They had them ranked close, and they went with their biggest need.

 

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Just because a team says that, doesn't make it true.

 

Sports Illustrated's Dr. Z had this to say, after ranking the Texans under "Dropped the Ball" on his draft grades:

 

"TEXANS Couldn't pull the trigger on the Bush contract, then laid it off on an overwhelming urge to fortify the defense with DE Mario Williams. Right. Now tell us about the sea captain and the mermaid."

 

Does Dr. Z need a ?

Edited May 20, 2006 by CaptainHook

[CaptainHook]

He wanted to do a sig bet on whether Bush would go #1 in the draft.  He would have lost, but, no one took him up on it.

 

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Wrong again. It was post draft. linkaroo

[CaptainHook]

Oh, and Menudo, stop asking for "links" to teams draft boards. It doesn't make your argument any stronger. Nobody gets to see those. There are a lot of things in this world that are true that don't have a link. If you fell so strongly about it, let's work out the parameters of the bet. Otherwise, stop talking smack.

 

Glad to see this turn lighhearted.......I think we've all got to admit that this is one of the silliest arguments ever.....what's done is done and we will find out the results soon enough.  But I'm too scared to make a sig line bet about it.

 

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Edited May 20, 2006 by CaptainHook

[rhino]

Yeah, that's what the Texans need -- a RB with a knee problem, and another with a hammy problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Menudo]

You lost that bet, remember?

 

Sorry, I forgot about losing that bet after my team redeemed themselves and beat your 'sure thing' Colts on the way to the Super Bowl title

 

Actually I was ranting about how DD owners were all convinced that taking Bush was a bad move and that D'Brickashaw Ferguson was the better pick.

Just because a team says that, doesn't make it true.

 

This is like the 3rd time I've seen you pretty much say 'you were wrong too, you said they'd take Ferguson' Nice spin attempt, the talk was on whether they would take Bush, you know it and I know it.

 

 

Sports Illustrated's Dr. Z had this to say, after ranking the Texans under "Dropped the Ball" on his draft grades:

 

"TEXANS Couldn't pull the trigger on the Bush contract, then laid it off on an overwhelming urge to fortify the defense with DE Mario Williams. Right. Now tell us about the sea captain and the mermaid."

 

Does Dr. Z need a ?

 

Well, as long as Dr. Z agrees with you, it HAS to be true

 

 

I tried to take the high road and end this silly, stupid argument, but you have an obvious grudge against me, and we all know why.....

Edited May 20, 2006 by Menudo

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Just because a team says that, doesn't make it true. 

 

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I'll grant you that, but...

 

Sports Illustrated's Dr. Z had this to say, after ranking the Texans under "Dropped the Ball" on his draft grades:

 

"TEXANS Couldn't pull the trigger on the Bush contract, then laid it off on an overwhelming urge to fortify the defense with DE Mario Williams.  Right.  Now tell us about the sea captain and the mermaid."

 

Does Dr. Z need a ?

 

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Apparently if Dr. Z says it, it MUST be true.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

For those of you who haven't read the excellent article from the Sporting News, here it is:

 

Why Mario?

May 1, 2006  Print it

 

 

By Paul Attner

 

 

On Wednesday, three days before the start of the NFL draft, Texans general manager Charley Casserly asks his coach, Gary Kubiak, to come to his office. The two have agonized for days over whether they should choose Reggie Bush or Mario Williams with the draft's No. 1 pick, and Casserly feels it is time for a decision.

 

Elsewhere in the draft world, there is no debate. For Texans fans, for most NFL teams, for even the most casual of draftniks, the obvious choice is Bush, the Heisman Trophy winner with stunning offensive skills rarely seen in a running back. He would bring pizzazz to a franchise sorely in need of an adrenaline rush. Besides, with 250,000 University of Texas alumni living in the Houston area, the selection of Bush would ease the intense unhappiness generated when the Texans chose to bypass UT quarterback Vince Young, a Houston native.

 

But inside the Texans' complex, it's not that simple. In February, just a few weeks after he replaced Dom Capers, Kubiak started watching tape of the top prospects. He walked into Casserly's office one afternoon. "That Mario Williams guy is unbelievable, isn't he?" he said. Casserly smiled. He had been enamored of Williams, a 6-7, 295-pound defensive end with special pass-rushing talents, since scouting him last fall. By the time the NFL Scouting Combine ended later in the month, Kubiak was convinced Williams, as well as Bush, merited the first pick.

 

For Kubiak, this decision about No. 1 will become a watershed moment in his early months as a head coach. He already made one franchise-shaping choice when he advised owner Bob McNair and Casserly to pay David Carr an $8 million bonus to retain the quarterback's services for at least the next three years. That eliminated any consideration to draft a quarterback, including Young, with the first pick. Now he must deal with another difficult decision. As a former offensive coordinator, his first instinct is to go with Bush. But as a head coach, he is determined to embrace a broader view.

 

In 2005, the Texans finished 30th in offense, 31st in defense; they lack playmakers on both units. At least Domanick Davis, a former 1,000-yard rusher who hurt his knee last season, is a proven runner. But they have no pass-rushing ends for their new 4-3 defense. The more Kubiak studies Williams, the more he sees freakish athletic sequences that are matched by few other NFL ends he has studied in his 12 pro seasons. It is this debate over which side, offense or defense, warrants more help from the top of the draft that drives the team's internal analysis for weeks.

 

In his Wednesday meeting with Kubiak, Casserly simply asks, "Who do you want to take? It's time." Kubiak replies quickly: "Let's go with Williams." Casserly agrees. They are not oblivious to the potential repercussions of their choice. They know it will likely be an unpopular pick in a draft dominated by a group of fablelike players in Bush, Young and USC quarterback Matt Leinart. Fans have watched these stars for years; choosing any one of them seems a no-brainer. "I am not running an Internet poll here," Casserly says privately.

 

At 7:30 the next morning, Kubiak and Casserly talk on the phone with McNair, who already is in New York for the draft. McNair asks each his opinion. "Williams," both say. He gives his approval. "Let's get him signed," McNair tells them.

 

McNair also understands the risk of passing on Bush. The previous Sunday, a fan of Young took out a full-page ad in the Houston Chronicle, at a cost of around $25,000, to plead with the team to pick Young. Another Pick Young ad, this one covering two pages, would follow later in the week. The franchise exists within an incredibly emotional cauldron, a risky place when you are coming off a 2-14 season with plenty of no-shows for the final home games. "From a fan standpoint, taking Reggie is a no-brainer. I know it," McNair says. "But I am going to do what is best for this franchise. I know they might make my life miserable. I know they will be unmerciful. But if we win, they will come back and embrace us. I am sure of that."

 

On Friday night, once all the terms of Williams' six-year, $54 million contract -- which includes $26.5 million guaranteed -- have been ratified, the Texans reveal their decision.

 

And then all draft hell breaks loose.

 

Since March, the Sporting News has been given inside access to the decision-making process that led to the Texans' selection of Williams. This is the story of how they arrived at what will be remembered as one of the most controversial choices in NFL draft history.

 

 

 

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On Saturday, the weather outside Reliant Stadium is as gloomy as the mood of the Houston fans attending the team's club-level draft party. "This pick is a travesty," says Faisal Punjwani, a Texas alumnus and regular Texans ticket buyer. "We wanted Vince Young, but I understand football. When they decided on Carr, Bush made more sense. We need to score points. But you have two or three future Hall of Famers available and you take a defensive end; I just don't understand."

 

He is not alone. When commissioner Paul Tagliabue announces the selection of Williams, the 8,000 in Reliant erupt. A torrent of boos overwhelms the cheers. Bush already is a football god. But who is Mario Williams? When the fans see Casserly's face on the television screens, the uproar grows even louder. Network analysts rip the choice relentlessly; so does the Chronicle. Internet reviews are just as harsh. Some season-ticket holders call to cancel their seats. It's not that Williams is an unworthy player; he would have been the Saints' choice at No. 2. But take him over Bush? Unfathomable.

 

Yet not every team has Bush first on their draft board. At least seven have Williams rated No. 1. "I think Williams is the cleanest player in the draft -- no flaws in his game," says one NFL general manager who had Williams first. "He is an impact player, a rare guy at a valuable position. Bush is rare, too, a special college player. But will he be special in the pros? You wonder about his durability." But most of the clubs echoed the thinking of another general manager: "At his position, Bush is as good a player as I have seen come out over my years of doing this. I take him. But Charley has to do what is best for his team and not be concerned about hype or public opinion. That isn't how you make a decision like this."

 

A number of factors ultimately drive the Texans' choice of Williams. They are infatuated with the depth and array of his skills; a huge man who covers 40 yards in 4.66 seconds, he can change a game's tempo. And he can play the pass as effectively as the run. They believe his tools on defense equal or exceed those of Bush's on offense and that Williams has a bigger upside. He played some tackle in college; they plan to use him at all four line spots. "You see someone like him just once in 20 years," Casserly says repeatedly. They see a little bit of a lot of players in Williams -- Reggie White, Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney.

 

"I have been coaching for 31 years, and very few players walking on this earth have this total package," says defensive line coach Bob Karmelowicz. At 21, Williams still is raw, but Kubiak is amazed at how good he already is. "You just marvel at things you normally don't see from a defensive end," he says. "The athleticism, the burst, the power. As an offensive guy, you have to game-plan against guys like that -- the Freeneys, the Peppers." That is what stays with Kubiak. This guy has the ability to be a dominant pass rusher in a pass-happy league. How important is that, particularly in a division in which the Texans must play Peyton Manning twice yearly? Without a pass rush, Houston has no chance of competing with the Colts.

 

But not everyone within the organization agrees on Williams. He didn't play hard at the beginning of last season, nor was he consistently productive. Casserly and Kubiak study all his games; they don't believe any of these negatives is persuasive enough. They also have questions about Bush. If he is this good, why did he play just part-time at USC? And why, near the end of the national championship game, did USC turn to LenDale White more than Bush? Do you pay No. 1 money to a guy who will not be a full-time back? They never answer these questions to their satisfaction.

 

 

 

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The first indication the Texans are considering Williams along with Bush comes in mid-April. Bush visits the club April 13, Young on April 14. The Texans ask Bush's agent, Joel Segal, to begin contract negotiations. He is reluctant. Casserly and Kubiak decide to bring in Williams; his agent, Ben Dogra, tells the Texans he doesn't believe they are serious. Williams travels to Houston the next Monday. Casserly announces he is a contender for No. 1; the media also don't believe the interest is legitimate.

 

On April 18, McNair meets with Kubiak, Casserly and the two coordinators so he can hear how each player would influence his respective side of the ball. Two days later, at a gathering of his minority partners, McNair is asked, "Isn't this a marketing as well as a football decision?" He responds: "Nothing is more important than doing what it takes to win games." McNair wants a contract signed before the draft but agrees a stalemate with either player won't prevent his selection.

 

The Sunday before the draft, it's reported that Bush's parents have rented a house from a guy who wants to be their son's marketing rep. The Texans launch their own investigation. Bush assures them he has done nothing wrong. They decide his problems won't affect their thinking. On Monday, Casserly, Kubiak, the scouts and the coaching staff meet to discuss the choice. The coaches are split, but seven of 10 scouts would take Bush. Negotiator Danny Ferens reports he is making significant progress with Segal, but Dogra still is not enthusiastic. On Tuesday, Casserly calls McNair and tells him he would select Williams. The owner wants to think about it. On Wednesday, the Bush camp embraces a six-year, $54 million contract but wants $28 million guaranteed; the Texans offer $26 million. Dogra also wants $28 million guaranteed. On the same day, Kubiak and Casserly decide on Williams. Both agree their defense has greater need. McNair is flying to New York; they will seek his OK in the morning.

 

When McNair approves, Casserly calls Dogra. "We aren't changing our minds," he says to the agent. Dogra doesn't tell Williams. He wants to finish the contract first. Within hours, both sides reach a financial agreement, but it takes another day to work out the details. Around 5:30 Friday afternoon, Dogra asks Williams, "How would you like to be the first choice?" They celebrate by drinking $10 bottles of water and eating from $20 cans of Pringles from the minibar in their hotel room in New York. Williams can afford the bill.

 

 

 

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The draft's first day is over. Casserly is sitting in his office. It's not easy to go against the league, and he is tired. He also is angry about the fan reaction to the choice. "Let them boo me," he says angrily. "Don't take it out on the kid. It's not fair. Give him a chance."

 

It is a strange time for him. Near the end of last season, McNair brought in Dan Reeves, the former NFL coach, to act as a consultant. Reeves helped interview head coaching candidates and endorsed Kubiak's hiring; his presence was interpreted as a slap at Casserly and his authority. In March, it was reported Casserly was being considered for a position in the league office. He has one year left on his contract; with the draft over, he and McNair will soon talk about his future. When asked last Tuesday whether Casserly would be with the team in a year, McNair was noncommittal. Nor did he give him a strong endorsement. "He's done a good job," McNair says.

 

Down the hall, Kubiak fields calls from friends in the league. They kid him about how an offensive guy could pass on Bush. Raised about five miles from Reliant, he understands the passion of the fans. "I want Houston to know that I am going to make the tough decision and I am willing to stand up and say, 'This is what I believe in,' " he says. "For the first time since I have been here, I can say that we have a strength, our defensive line. It's very, very exciting."

 

A few weeks earlier, an interviewer asked Casserly whether he wanted to be the next Stu Inman, the Trail Blazers' general manager who passed up Michael Jordan for Sam Bowie. "Who says (Bush) is Michael Jordan?" replied Casserly. Now Casserly leans back in his chair. "People can judge this short term," he says. "But the smart ones will wait a few years. Check back with me then."

Edited May 20, 2006 by Swiss Cheezhead

[CaptainHook]

I tried to take the high road and end this silly, stupid argument, but you have an obvious grudge against me, and we all know why.....

 

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Because you have morphed into an obnoxious UglyTuna clone?

 

Seriously, only you could turn this discussion about Dom Davis into a Colts v. Steelers thing.

 

You ask for a link about Texans taking signability into account in their decision. I provide you a quote from an SI football guy who believes the same thing. But it doesn't count right? So now you've got someone who says they didn't take signability into account (the Texans) and I have someone who says they do. So what's the problem? Why is this about the Colts/Steelers? Just because I disagree with you? You've become incredibly childish since the Steelers won the SB. Enjoy it. They deserved it. Take a pill.

Edited May 21, 2006 by CaptainHook

[CaptainHook]

Apparently if Dr. Z says it, it MUST be true.

 

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I didn't say that. Just showing that there are others who feel the Texans made their decision on more than just talent. Of course, we'll never know the truth. But we can always look back to see if it was a mistake.

Edited May 21, 2006 by CaptainHook

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I didn't say that.  Just showing that there are others who feel the Texans made their decision on more than just talent.  Of course, we'll never know the truth.  But we can always look back to see if it was a mistake.

 

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Yeah, I suppose.

[CaptainHook]

Oh, and Swiss, the article is an interesting read. But it's spin, in my opinion. What do you expect the Texans to say? That Bush wanted to much money, and that weighed into their decision making process? And I just don't get all the drooling over Williams. The guy was NOT CONSISTENTLY dominant in college. He rocketed up higher after the combine numbers. We'll see soon enough. . .

[Menudo]

Because you have morphed into an obnoxious UglyTuna clone?

 

Seriously, only you could turn this discussion about Dom Davis into a Colts v. Steelers thing.  

 

You ask for a link about Texans taking signability into account in their decision.  I provide you a quote from an SI football guy who believes the same thing.  But it doesn't count right?  So now you've got someone who says they didn't take signability into account (the Texans) and I have someone who says they do.  So what's the problem?  Why is this about the Colts/Steelers?  Just because I disagree with you?  You've become incredibly childish since the Steelers won the SB.  Enjoy it.  They deserved it.  Take a pill.

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Going to the Ugly Tuna thing huh ? Fair enough, and I'm the one being childish.

 

Fact is, you don't like being wrong. You told us we were nuts for thinking the Texans would pass on Bush, they did.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Menudo

[Menudo]

Oh, and Swiss, the article is an interesting read.  But it's spin, in my opinion.  What do you expect the Texans to say?  That Bush wanted to much money, and that weighed into their decision making process?  And I just don't get all the drooling over Williams.  The guy was NOT CONSISTENTLY dominant in college.  He rocketed up higher after the combine numbers.  We'll see soon enough. . .

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Diagree with CaptainHook = Spin

Agree with CaptainHook = Evidence

 

OK, now I get it.

[CaptainHook]

Diagree with CaptainHook = Spin

Agree with CaptainHook = Evidence

 

OK, now I get it.

 

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Didn't I even say it was "my opinion"? Are we not allowed to have opinions? Go away Menudo.

 

edit: And I have no problem being wrong. It's happened MANY times. Like when I took Michael Bennett over Tomlinson in a rookie draft. Or my sig line bets on Colts/Pats play-off games. Or feeling that Bush would be the number one pick. What's the big deal? Everybody's wrong on this message board from time to time. What the hell is your problem? You are acting like you are 6 years old.

Edited May 21, 2006 by CaptainHook