Vick is BACK!

[Azazello1313]

Basketball and Football are 2 different sports. it is much easier for 1 guy to make a team a winner in basketball. a truly great player in basketball will make a team have a winning record basically all by himself. in football 1 player CANNOT make a team have a winning record all by himself.

 

talk to blitz, it was HIS moranic analogy, saying the bulls sucked when jordan took over the game. oh man, of all the idiotic statements that guy has ever made..

[Bill Swerski]

the bulls were 27-9 when jordan scored 50 or more points, so they won 75% of their games when jordan "took over the game".

 

probably about the same percentage as the falcons win when vick rushes for 100.

 

GREAT analogy, blitz! way to really illustrate how these guys hurt their teams.

 

 

 

Blitz also failed to consider that Jordan had crap for talent around him for the first three or four years of his career. It wasn't until the late 80's when Jerry Krause drafted Pippen, Horace Grant, and Oakley (and then later traded Oakley for Cartwright) that the Bulls had a good TEAM, rather than a lone superstar. Hmmm... do you think THAT may have helped the Bulls win?

 

While I agree with Blitz (or Grits or whatever the hell his name is) that Vick can't pass the ball to save his life, his ridiculous refusal to acknowledge what Vick's legs bring to the game is making him look like a in this thread. And the Jordan analogy showed that he knows even less about the NBA than the NFL.

[Bill Swerski]

it is much easier for 1 guy to make a team a winner in basketball. a truly great player in basketball will make a team have a winning record basically all by himself.

 

 

Basketball is a team sport as well. One person can arguably have a greater impact than in football, but you can't win with just one superstar (as the current Lakers squad clearly shows).

Edited November 14, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[Big Score 1]

So the reason Schaub lost both all of his starts...is because he didn't have a great WR to throw to.

 

But Vick's losses are because he can't throw the ball.

 

Gotcha

 

fixed ... he has only had 2 starts according to nfl.com and one of those he was 18/34 for 298 yards and 3 td's against NE which they lost 31-28 in the final minute of play.

 

not exactly a large sample size ... but that wasn't too shabby of a game from schaub even though it wasn't a W

 

No why do you have to make me go back & fix your mistakes junebugz?

 

Might want to re check yourself on your look up skills, good buddy!

 

Schaub started the last two games of 2004 after the Falcons had locked up the best playoff seed they could.

Scahub lost both of those games.

 

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH	YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| 16  nor  |   17   41   188   0   2  |	4	21   0 || 17  sea  |   14   22   133   1   1  |	2	 7   0 |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+

 

 

In 2005 Schaub started against New England in week 5.

Schaub lost that game as well.

 

+----------+--------------------------+----------------+| WK  OPP  |  CMP  ATT   PYD  TD  INT |  RSH	YD  TD |+----------+--------------------------+----------------+|  5  nwe  |   18   34   298   3   0  |	2	 3   0 |

 

 

Small sample size I know, but it never fails to cracks me up to no end, when the uninformed fans blather on about how Schaub would be soooo much better than Vick.

 

Dude is 0 for 3 with 2 of the losses coming the season the Falcons went 11 & 5

[Big Score 1]

OK..no reason to keep on with this. since you are gonna tell me most of Vicks runs are called plays and say it as though it is fact... ...tells me you are just trying to fabricate any reason you can to back up what you have to say.

Pretty sure I said over 50% THIS year & if you've watched the Falcons play this year, you'd know it's no fabrication.

 

What can I say though?

 

You've got your preconceived notions on Vick (like a lot of folks who don't follow the Falcons closely) & there's no budging you.

Also...I was serious..I would rather have 1 Eli than 10 Vicks as a QB. I did wink but I meant what I said.

Then you would be making a mistake. Eli is a very overrated QB in my book.

Although if Vick decided to play WR I would change my mind here.

[Big Score 1]

Basketball and Football are 2 different sports. it is much easier for 1 guy to make a team a winner in basketball. a truly great player in basketball will make a team have a winning record basically all by himself. in football 1 player CANNOT make a team have a winning record all by himself.

 

They're just laughing at yet another in a long line of enormously ignorant statements in this thread by Blitz, Doc.

 

Nobody but Blitz is trying to somehow use a Basketball player, in comparrison to a Football player.

 

Of course he managed to F' it up though.

[Azazello1313]

They're just laughing at yet another in a long line of enormously ignorant statements in this thread by Blitz, Doc.

 

Nobody but Blitz is trying to somehow use a Basketball player, in comparrison to a Football player.

 

Of course he managed to F' it up though.

 

 

hey, at least it shut him up though. that may be a first in the history of the huddle.

[tosberg34]

They're just laughing at yet another in a long line of enormously ignorant statements in this thread by Blitz, Doc.

 

 

Then you and Blitz have something in common because you've been making ignorant and fact-free statements (based on your man-love for Vick) as well. You'll make anything up so as not to destroy your idolization of Vick. I commend you for the loyalty you show him. Of course it's blind loyalty, but loyalty nonetheless.

 

[Big Score 1]

Then you and Blitz have something in common because you've been making ignorant and fact-free statements (based on your man-love for Vick) as well. You'll make anything up so as not to destroy your idolization of Vick. I commend you for the loyalty you show him. Of course it's blind loyalty, but loyalty nonetheless.

 

 

[broncosn05]

Vick is nowhere near to being the BEST QB or the GREATEST QB ever as some pot stirrers like to say

 

I'm still hung on the "potential that the guy has." Eli is very overrated and I honestly don't like the kid. Vick has been plagued throughout his developement as a QB by his protection. Of those 70% "ad lib" runs I have to think that Vick continually is looking over his shoulder and worried about get killed, not good. A big thing that less mobile QBs such as Manning have showed off is their poise in the pocket. The big thing for Vick is his favorite line of I win games, if they don't make the playoffs for the second year in a row I would sense some serious urgency in that lockerroom. The boos from the Atlanta faithful scare me and I'm hoping big time for a good week against BAL.

 

However, don't forget the Falcons defense is also not clicking on all cylinders. Abraham has been great in the, what, one or two games he has played. Now Kerney probably to the IR and Hartwell still battling injuries along with the Webster injury that led to some nice pitch and catch over Rossum last week.

[tosberg34]

 

 

Criticism of Vick

 

The most frequent criticisms of Vick are that he has poor fundamental skills and that he puts himself at unnecessary risk of injury. Critics cite the leg fracture he suffered in the 2003 pre-season against the Ravens, and a knee injury he suffered early in the 2005 season (which reoccurred a few weeks later), that hampered his mobility throughout the year as prime evidence that Vick needs to learn to "pick his spots" as a runner, citing the example of Steve Young, another mobile left-handed signalcaller who had a mediocre professional career before being placed in an offensive system with the San Francisco 49ers that optimized his talents. Young eventually won a Super Bowl and was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2005, becoming the first left-handed quarterback to be so honored.

 

The aforementioned playoff win against the Packers remains perhaps Vick's biggest career win as a starter. But while Vick does deserve some credit in engineering the victory, he finished the game with a 52 percent completion rate, throwing for just 117 yards and one touchdown. Meanwhile, the Falcons' defense forced three fumbles from three different players and forced future Hall of Famer Brett Favre into throwing two interceptions while limiting running back Ahman Green, at the time one of the league's top rushers, to just 34 yards. Atlanta's special teams unit also blocked a punt and returned it for one of the Falcons' three touchdowns.

 

Critics have stated that while Vick has a powerful arm, his passes are not nearly as accurate as other top quarterbacks in the league, such as Cincinnati's Carson Palmer or Indianapolis' Peyton Manning, both of whom have better quarterback ratings. The Falcons won eight out of their twenty-nine games with Vick as a starter when his quarterback rating was less than 60. Vick supporters argue that the quarterback rating doesn't take into account Vick's rushing yards, and is not an accurate benchmark of Vick's contribution to the team. However, another counterpoint from critics is that sacks and yards lost are not integrated into an NFL quarterback's rushing stats, making it technically impossible for Vick, or any other quarterback, to carry a negative rushing average. This in turn masks the cost of Vick's unsuccessful attempts to rush.

 

In a November 2005 press conference, Vick scoffed at the notion that he was a weak "pocket" passer. Vick's knee problem had limited his mobility, and his quarterback rating actually improved modestly. However, the Falcon's winning percentage did not likewise increase.

 

Other pundits also believe that the Falcons, while replete with competent "possession" receivers, lack a fast, "deep threat" wideout who can make yards after the catch. To help remedy this, the Falcons acquired former Buffalo Bills wideout Peerless Price prior to the 2003 season. But Price proved to be a massive disappointment, catching just six touchdowns passes over the course of two seasons. He was released by the organization prior to the 2005 season and re-signed with Buffalo. Arguably, Vick's favorite target is tight end Alge Crumpler, a very good receiver, but certainly no speedster. Receiver Brian Finneran, another favorite target of Vick's (but, like Crumpler, no speedster), suffered a devastating left knee injury in the Falcons' training camp and will miss the entire year.

 

Vick's critics have countered that it's unfair to cast the blame on the receivers alone, though, since Vick remains the common denominator in the Falcons offense. There have also been reports that Vick and the Falcons coaching staff do not always see eye to eye, and that Vick struggled to understand the intricate West Coast playbook, which led to the implementation of the option-esque offense. Other pundits have stated that they believe that traditional "rules" about what a quarterback should be and how the position should be played do not apply to Vick due to his effective, non-traditional style.

 

A few critics have been even harsher than simply singling out Vick's accuracy woes, derisively labeling him an "athlete" who happens to play the quarterback position rather than a true quarterback. He has shown the potential to be at least an adequate passer, however. He amassed a quarterback rating of 81.6 in 2002, which is his best performance in that statistical category.

 

Vick's visibility has earned him some backlash as well. Some fans have reacted negatively to the constant media hype that surrounds Vick, and feel that an over-exuberant American sports media anointed him as the best player in football without sufficient proof for the accolade. For instance, Vick's selection to the Pro Bowl for the 2005 season was a controversial one given the fact that in addition to his 15 touchdown passes, he threw 13 interceptions and that his 2,412 passing yards is extremely average. However, he did rush for over 500 yards and scored 6 touchdowns. Following Vick's Pro Bowl selection, sports columnist Tim Cowlishaw of the Dallas Morning News called Vick "the most overrated player in the league." Likewise, in an NFL season preview article in the August, 2006 issue of Maxim, the magazine's readers crowned Vick as "Most Overrated."

 

I think this sums it up for me. Thank-you wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick#Career_Stats)

Edited November 15, 2006 by tosberg34

[Big Score 1]

Criticism of Vick

 

The most frequent criticisms of Vick are that he has poor fundamental skills and that he puts himself at unnecessary risk of injury. Critics cite the leg fracture he suffered in the 2003 pre-season against the Ravens, and a knee injury he suffered early in the 2005 season (which reoccurred a few weeks later), that hampered his mobility throughout the year as prime evidence that Vick needs to learn to "pick his spots" as a runner, citing the example of Steve Young, another mobile left-handed signalcaller who had a mediocre professional career before being placed in an offensive system with the San Francisco 49ers that optimized his talents. Young eventually won a Super Bowl and was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2005, becoming the first left-handed quarterback to be so honored.

 

The aforementioned playoff win against the Packers remains perhaps Vick's biggest career win as a starter. But while Vick does deserve some credit in engineering the victory, he finished the game with a 52 percent completion rate, throwing for just 117 yards and one touchdown. Meanwhile, the Falcons' defense forced three fumbles from three different players and forced future Hall of Famer Brett Favre into throwing two interceptions while limiting running back Ahman Green, at the time one of the league's top rushers, to just 34 yards. Atlanta's special teams unit also blocked a punt and returned it for one of the Falcons' three touchdowns.

 

Critics have stated that while Vick has a powerful arm, his passes are not nearly as accurate as other top quarterbacks in the league, such as Cincinnati's Carson Palmer or Indianapolis' Peyton Manning, both of whom have better quarterback ratings. The Falcons won eight out of their twenty-nine games with Vick as a starter when his quarterback rating was less than 60. Vick supporters argue that the quarterback rating doesn't take into account Vick's rushing yards, and is not an accurate benchmark of Vick's contribution to the team. However, another counterpoint from critics is that sacks and yards lost are not integrated into an NFL quarterback's rushing stats, making it technically impossible for Vick, or any other quarterback, to carry a negative rushing average. This in turn masks the cost of Vick's unsuccessful attempts to rush.

 

In a November 2005 press conference, Vick scoffed at the notion that he was a weak "pocket" passer. Vick's knee problem had limited his mobility, and his quarterback rating actually improved modestly. However, the Falcon's winning percentage did not likewise increase.

 

Other pundits also believe that the Falcons, while replete with competent "possession" receivers, lack a fast, "deep threat" wideout who can make yards after the catch. To help remedy this, the Falcons acquired former Buffalo Bills wideout Peerless Price prior to the 2003 season. But Price proved to be a massive disappointment, catching just six touchdowns passes over the course of two seasons. He was released by the organization prior to the 2005 season and re-signed with Buffalo. Arguably, Vick's favorite target is tight end Alge Crumpler, a very good receiver, but certainly no speedster. Receiver Brian Finneran, another favorite target of Vick's (but, like Crumpler, no speedster), suffered a devastating left knee injury in the Falcons' training camp and will miss the entire year.

 

Vick's critics have countered that it's unfair to cast the blame on the receivers alone, though, since Vick remains the common denominator in the Falcons offense. There have also been reports that Vick and the Falcons coaching staff do not always see eye to eye, and that Vick struggled to understand the intricate West Coast playbook, which led to the implementation of the option-esque offense. Other pundits have stated that they believe that traditional "rules" about what a quarterback should be and how the position should be played do not apply to Vick due to his effective, non-traditional style.

 

A few critics have been even harsher than simply singling out Vick's accuracy woes, derisively labeling him an "athlete" who happens to play the quarterback position rather than a true quarterback. He has shown the potential to be at least an adequate passer, however. He amassed a quarterback rating of 81.6 in 2002, which is his best performance in that statistical category.

 

Vick's visibility has earned him some backlash as well. Some fans have reacted negatively to the constant media hype that surrounds Vick, and feel that an over-exuberant American sports media anointed him as the best player in football without sufficient proof for the accolade. For instance, Vick's selection to the Pro Bowl for the 2005 season was a controversial one given the fact that in addition to his 15 touchdown passes, he threw 13 interceptions and that his 2,412 passing yards is extremely average. However, he did rush for over 500 yards and scored 6 touchdowns. Following Vick's Pro Bowl selection, sports columnist Tim Cowlishaw of the Dallas Morning News called Vick "the most overrated player in the league." Likewise, in an NFL season preview article in the August, 2006 issue of Maxim, the magazine's readers crowned Vick as "Most Overrated."

 

I think this sums it up for me. Thank-you wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick#Career_Stats)

 

[tosberg34]

 

 

I know i've gotten to you by your child-like responses. I've picked apart every one of your arguments and this is all you have left? You must be a real joy at home. I at least hope you're still in your teens because that would explain some of your ignorance.

Edited November 15, 2006 by tosberg34

[broncosn05]

I know i've gotten to you by your child-like responses. I've picked apart every one of your arguments and this is all you have left? You must be a real joy at home. I at least hope you're still in your teens because that would excuse this behavior.

 

He is the #10 scoring fantasy QB in a league of mine's scoring.

[tosberg34]

He is the #10 scoring fantasy QB in a league of mine's scoring.

 

 

Wow! a real keeper!

[broncosn05]

Wow! a real keeper!

 

Well if we're playing the number game.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Excellent post tosberg, especially laying out the facts and stats of that win at Green bay in the playoffs. That was the period of "Vick makes the players on the field play better", defense included.

[tosberg34]

Excellent post tosberg, especially laying out the facts and stats of that win at Green bay in the playoffs. That was the period of "Vick makes the players on the field play better", defense included.

 

 

The one and only period, I might add.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

The one and only period, I might add.

 

I called BS on that "period" then, but it seems to have quieted down as they are not winning lately and those same positions that credit was given to him are now his scapegotas.

[broncosn05]

I called BS on that "period" then, but it seems to have quieted down as they are not winning lately and those same positions that credit was given to him are now his scapegotas.

 

As posted above they are battling significant injuries on defense. And were also without Norwood, a nice change of pace guy, last game. Am I saying it was not a terrible loss no but you have to factor these things in.

[kerwin8]

I called BS on that "period" then, but it seems to have quieted down as they are not winning lately and those same positions that credit was given to him are now his scapegotas.

 

 

Now he makes all the players on his team more fragile.

[Big Score 1]

I know i've gotten to you by your child-like responses. I've picked apart every one of your arguments and this is all you have left? You must be a real joy at home. I at least hope you're still in your teens because that would explain some of your ignorance.

 

[Big Score 1]

This is a quote from Vick after Sundays game;

"I take sole responsibility on the offensive side," he said, shaking his head. "It hurts."

[tosberg34]

 

 

Hah! Vindication! Are you going to take your thread and go home now?

[broncosn05]

Excellent post tosberg

 

oooooooo wikipedia