Bronco Billy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 right. and that explains why atlanta's record is so much better when vick is not playing. Have you used the word strawman yet today? Because you just build one hell of one with that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) The Falcons shouldn't have lost this game. Vick pretty much threw one up to give a jump ball Crumpler for Pool and it was INT. His TD was pretty nice along with the effort by Jenkins. I'm not arguing that this was a good game for him by any stretch. I just don't think this guy can ever be a 40 attempt QB. The Falcon offense just wasn't very good as a whole. Dunn couldn't get the ball moving and Norwood wasn't active. The fumble was simply pathetic for the second week in a row. He got boos from the Georgia Dome for his effort yesterday as he should've. I don't doubt Vick to comeback next week and explode against BAL on the road. It looks like the defense played pretty good especially with Hartwell and Abraham out again. Edited November 13, 2006 by broncosn05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I'm not arguing that Vick is a better QB than Romo. I'm not even arguing that Vick is anything other than an average-to-below-average QB. But despite what Grits refuses to admit because he's a biased moran, you HAVE to include Vick's rushing yardage in a statistical comparison of him to a more typical pocket passer. While Vick doesn't move the chains as effectively as an average pocket passer (like Trent Green, for example), the chain-moving he does with his feet cannot be discounted. Only a fool would dispute Vick's ability to move in the open field, which the position of QB enhances since scrambles tend to lend themselves to open field running. Vick is exceptional at that. That doesn't discount that he's a lousy QB because he does a poor job of getting the ball downfield consistently in the passing game. If ATL could keep Vick on the field & get him the ball in the open field beyond the line of scrimmage, think of the damage he could do and the attention that Ds would have to give him. He'd be what Reggie Bush is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 He'd be what Reggie Bush is supposed to be. Did you see his throw last week. Vick is definetely better than that slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think Vicks rushing TD's should be included in any bet made. You could not use his rushing yards because many of those yards he is getting when he should be making a pass downfield so despite him getting a positive gain he is not helping the team but holding them back.this happens because no QB is worse at reading a defense than Vick. I think everyone knows Vick is not a good QB(even if they won't admit it). even the NFL people know he is not a good QB. it is his potential that keeps people raving about him. the same potential they raved about when he 1st came into the league and are still waiting to shine through. The sad part is political correctness stops people from saying what they really believe on TV. for some reason it is wrong to say Vick is a bad QB despite the fact that he is. this is why this debate happens so much on these message boards. because the people here do not care about political correctness(unless a certain side is arguing politics). Look at the last game..Vick did throw a TD but it was a horrible pass that Jenkins made a wonderful catch on. yet those Vick so-called supporters will tell you Jenkins dropped a TD and his recievers are killing him. Vick can put up big numbers in the right offense(as any QB can)..and it is not Vicks fault alone on offense as his line is doing him no favors either..but he is a bad QB and anyone who says otherwise is either not paying attention or just flat out will not admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 but he will never lead his team to a superbowl victory as a QB... NEVER. That's exactly what everyone used to say about Trent Dilfer...until he won a Superbowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 *whispering* I think everyone is forgetting that he is the highest paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 That's exactly what everyone used to say about Trent Dilfer...until he won a Superbowl I think 11 guys that played on the Blt Defense would argue Dilfer "lead" them anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The sad part is political correctness stops people from saying what they really believe on TV. for some reason it is wrong to say Vick is a bad QB despite the fact that he is. this is why this debate happens so much on these message boards. because the people here do not care about political correctness(unless a certain side is arguing politics). I think it has more to do with how much money Vick brings into the league than political correctness. I don't recall announcers biting their tongue regarding Kordell or Akili Smith's performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 What? This thread has been going on all day? Doesn't anyone work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 so what's the consensus? Does Vick still suck? Or did something happen over night that turned him into an nfl-caliber QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 You could not use his rushing yards because many of those yards he is getting when he should be making a pass downfield so despite him getting a positive gain he is not helping the team but holding them back. For you to make this statement, you obviously haven't been watching very many of the Falcons games this year or paid attention to the Zone Option offense they've been running. Far more often than not, Vick's rushing has been from specifically designed running plays. I think everyone knows Vick is not a good QB(even if they won't admit it). even the NFL people know he is not a good QB. it is his potential that keeps people raving about him. the same potential they raved about when he 1st came into the league and are still waiting to shine through. The sad part is political correctness stops people from saying what they really believe on TV. for some reason it is wrong to say Vick is a bad QB despite the fact that he is. this is why this debate happens so much on these message boards. because the people here do not care about political correctness(unless a certain side is arguing politics). Again, I can understand people thinking this when media personalities say it, however I highly doubt actual NFL personnel are happily feeding the Vick hype, when they talk about what he brings to the table & the difficult matchup he presents for them. In fact what I'm now seeing a lot of are biased & ignorant anti Vick posts which i think has been cause in a large part to the unrelenting media hype of Vick. We're seeing the same thing with Reggie Bush. People are turned off by the media barrage. You've got morans starting threads calling him a cancer to his team because some reporter said he MIGHT sit out this year in a contract dispute. Other idiots are starting threads calling him a bust after only 8 games, while he's mired in a RBBC. Look at the last game..Vick did throw a TD but it was a horrible pass that Jenkins made a wonderful catch on. yet those Vick so-called supporters will tell you Jenkins dropped a TD and his recievers are killing him.On the particular play you're describing, it was not a "horrible pass", it was an Ok pass that Jenkins made a good, not "wonderful" catch on. Again as others have done throughout this thread, I imagine you're basing your comment here on just the highlights without seeing the entire game. I see no mention of the dead spot on pass to Lelie in the corner of the end-zone that he flat out let skip off his hands with no defender on him, the pass right in Jenkins mitts for another sure TD he managed to drop, or the beautiful 55 yard bomb to White, which he somehow miraculously held onto and put the Falcons in position for a last minute win, despite all the other squandered opportunities. To be honest, you can take ANY starting QB today and pick apart each & every game they play, to find passes to criticize. Believe it or not, the great Peyton Manning threw up a clunker this weekend. Brett Favre threw 29 picks last year, but we see nowhere near the criticism of them, like we see directed at Vick, after he has a bad game. Vick can put up big numbers in the right offense(as any QB can)..and it is not Vicks fault alone on offense as his line is doing him no favors either..Now this is true, as evidenced by when Knapp opened up the Falcons offense & Vick surgically & methodically picked apart both the Steelers D & then Cincy's D. The great thing about Vick is his mobility, so he can succeed behind a sub par pass blocking line, where other less mobile QB's, would not stand a chance. but he is a bad QB and anyone who says otherwise is either not paying attention or just flat out will not admit it.As evidenced by the Falcons play against Pitt & Cincy, when the play calling is less predictable & everyone is on the same page, Vick is NOT a bad QB and anyone who says otherwise is either not paying attention or just flat out will not admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 so what's the consensus? Does Vick still suck? Or did something happen over night that turned him into an nfl-caliber QB? Back to your room tosberg34. The grown ups are talking now son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINS Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Believe it or not, the great Peyton Manning threw up a clunker this weekend. Um, no he didn't: 27/39 (69%), 236 yds, 1 TD, 0 turnovers, and got the offense in position for Addai to score as well. Utect and Rhodes both lost fumbles on key drives near midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN. UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN WAS RYAN LEAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN WAS RYAN LEAF Leaf was certainly over rated. Vick is over rated as a QB ... but you and others continue to worship at the altar of Vick and feed the hype ... apparently no amount of common sense, facts or stats can remove your blinders. Did you know I've never seen Walter Payton play. So because I have never seen him play I guess I can not say he was a great back. I mean really I'd have to have watched every play of his career to make that judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Back to your room tosberg34. The grown ups are talking now son. So then what are you doing on the forum? If you could only step outside of yourself and see how ridiculous you look defending Vick. You're like the captain on the Titanic insisting that nothing is wrong with the ship (blame the passengers instead). Grit's hit it right on the head when he said you have some kind of man-love for Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I've ripped Vick countless times here, but this has just gotten completely out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST OVER RATED QB THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN WAS RYAN LEAF ...And standing next to leaf would be Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Um, no he didn't: 27/39 (69%), 236 yds, 1 TD, 0 turnovers, and got the offense in position for Addai to score as well. Utect and Rhodes both lost fumbles on key drives near midfield. No, not a clunker in the traditional sense. 236 yards & 1 TD with the last scoring drive Peyton led, coming in the 3rd quarter? By Mannings standards & with the Colts offense, that's a clunker. But he has set the bar awfully high for himself and that's because he's so darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 No, not a clunker in the traditional sense. 236 yards & 1 TD with the last scoring drive Peyton led, coming in the 3rd quarter? By Mannings standards & with the Colts offense, that's a clunker. But he has set the bar awfully high for himself and that's because he's so darn good. Petty semantics. If you look at Vick's career as a whole (as Grits pointed out with his stat total) you cannot help but realize that he is a HUGE disappointment. No where near the Rock-Star status you gave him when he was first drafted. It's time to take all the Vick posters down in your room, BS1. Along with the Vick bedsheets and one-piece jammies you're wearing. Go downstairs give your parents a hug and tell them you're going to get a real job now instead of Professional Message Board Poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 ...And standing next to leaf would be Vick. Thought you were told to go back to your room junior? But since you insist on sticking your nose in, while the grown ups are talking... Heath Shuler, Rick Mier, Akili Smith, Cade McClown etc...etc...etc... are all standing next to Leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 No, not a clunker in the traditional sense. 236 yards & 1 TD with the last scoring drive Peyton led, coming in the 3rd quarter? By Mannings standards & with the Colts offense, that's a clunker. But he has set the bar awfully high for himself and that's because he's so darn good. Peyton also took a knee when the Colts drove to the BUF 25 on the final drive of the game. I give a lot of credit to Buffalo's defense. They did a good job of taking away Harrison and Wayne's deep routes. Peyton was throwing short passes to Utect and Addai all day. However, the Colts offense had no problem moving the ball yesterday. It was the turnovers that kept Peyton from throwing 2 or 3 TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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