ebartender Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Darrell Jackson is one of the best ten WR's in the game when healthy. Off the top of my head I can rank 11 WRs above DJax Holt Owens Harrison Chad Johnson Steve Smith Boldin Fitzgerald Roy Williams Andre Johnson Javon Walker Reggie Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Off the top of my head I can rank 11 WRs above DJax Holt Owens Harrison Chad Johnson Steve Smith Boldin Fitzgerald Roy Williams Andre Johnson Javon Walker Reggie Wayne From a statistical level, I don't think all off those guys (Wayne, A. Johnson, maybe even Boldin/Fitz/Williams) have put up the consistent numbers that Djax, has when healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) From a statistical level, I don't think all off those guys (Wayne, A. Johnson, maybe even Boldin/Fitz/Williams) have put up the consistent numbers that Djax, has when healthy. Wayne certainly has over the past four years. Andre Johnson would probably have better numbers if he were on a halfway decent offense. Dude caught 103 passes this season while facing double-coverage all of the time. He's got the size (6'2", 220 lbs) and speed (~ 4.5 sec 40-yd) to be the next T.O. When healthy, D-Jax is pretty freaking good. Of course, that caveat is the problem. Edited February 14, 2007 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 From a statistical level, I don't think all off those guys (Wayne, A. Johnson, maybe even Boldin/Fitz/Williams) have put up the consistent numbers that Djax, has when healthy. I just did a quick 3 year average for WRs and Djax ranks as folows: Receptions - 23rd (64) Yards - 20th (939) TDs - 16th (6) That puts him right around top 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I just did a quick 3 year average for WRs and Djax ranks as folows: Receptions - 23rd (64) Yards - 20th (939) TDs - 16th (6) That puts him right around top 20. I would weigh yards and TDs more than receptions. I'm guessing he missed about 15 games the last 3 years. Assuming your 3 year average doesn't just look at games played, Djax is easily a top 10 WR and maybe top 5 in yards/TDs over the last few years, when healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Wayne certainly has over the past four years. Andre Johnson would probably have better numbers if he were on a halfway decent offense. Dude caught 103 passes this season while facing double-coverage all of the time. He's got the size (6'2", 220 lbs) and speed (~ 4.5 sec 40-yd) to be the next T.O. When healthy, D-Jax is pretty freaking good. Of course, that caveat is the problem. There is no doubt that Djax benefits because of his team and Johnson suffers due to his. I was solely stating this from a statistical prespective. Djax has been largely undervalued in FF the last 5 years. Of course, he decided to bang his toe during the FF playoffs this year and that caught up to me in the superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I would weigh yards and TDs more than receptions. I'm guessing he missed about 15 games the last 3 years. Assuming your 3 year average doesn't just look at games played, Djax is easily a top 10 WR and maybe top 5 in yards/TDs over the last few years, when healthy. I like Djax, but you are the one who brought up consistency. Over the last three years he ranks as a top 20 WR. Unless the numbers I looked up were wrong, those are the facts. If he can't stay healthy then he can't produce which is a problem. You can't just ignore the fact that he has been hurt. What good is he if he plays part of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) I like Djax, but you are the one who brought up consistency. Over the last three years he ranks as a top 20 WR. Unless the numbers I looked up were wrong, those are the facts. If he can't stay healthy then he can't produce which is a problem. You can't just ignore the fact that he has been hurt. What good is he if he plays part of the time? Good god.....you win...okay? The original claim was "Djax is one of the top 10 WR's in the game when healthy." I'm inclined to think that top 5 might be accurate if you look at the last 4 years or so. Edited February 14, 2007 by bushwacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Good god.....you win...okay? The only point I was trying to make if you look at averages over games played for the last 3-4 years, that Djax probably has better numbers than most people think. But he has been hurt so you have to account for that. You can roll you eyes all you want but the fact is that over the last 3 years he is a top 20 WR and no better. I understand what you are saying. He may be consistent for the games he has played but it is the games he doesn't play that is what hurts him in the stat category. I don't know about you, but I would take a full season from Wayne or Andre Johnson over 10-12 games from Djax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I like Djax, but you are the one who brought up consistency. Over the last three years he ranks as a top 20 WR. Unless the numbers I looked up were wrong, those are the facts. If he can't stay healthy then he can't produce which is a problem. You can't just ignore the fact that he has been hurt. What good is he if he plays part of the time? The Hawks held him out of games he could have played in, because they knew they were going to the playoffs and wanted to ensure his availability for those games.... the important ones, the playoffs. WHEN he plays, he's a top ten WR. I don't think that can be disputed. He is injured far too often, which also can't be disputed. I think they will hold him one more year, especially because Engram, who was quality depth is an FA. If I'm in the Seattle FO, knowing that SA is getting older and Holmgren could leave after 2007, this window may close by 2008. That would be the time to reload imo. It also gives Hackett and Branch another year to work their way into the offense. Burleson so far has been somewhat of a disappointment. Keeping him another year takes 1.3 mil off the signing bonus cap hit too. If DJax can somehow stay healthy this year, he could become much more tradable as well. Right now, I don't see him as tradable, only cuttable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) But he has been hurt so you have to account for that. You can roll you eyes all you want but the fact is that over the last 3 years he is a top 20 WR and no better. Your right, his injury history will obviously play into potential trade value. But, you jumped into a hypothetical discussion on his potential value if he was healthy. It's an NFL message board in the offseason, we do this stuff to kill time. Presenting stats, in which Djax missed about 33% of the games because of injury, doesn't mean squat in the hypothetical preface the rest of us are taking into consideration. Edited February 14, 2007 by bushwacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Purely speculation in the blogosphere at this point, but with Deion Branch, an emerging D.J. Hackett, Nate Burleson, and some organizational love for 7th Round pick out of Auburn Ben Obomanu, theories are abounding that the Seahawks could use the cap room and an extra draft pick to address other needs. yep and that's like the theories in training camp this year that Porkchop would adequately fill in for Hutch, Burelson is an overpaid return man and Hackett and Branch certainly won't put too much fear into the DB's of the league. If the Hawks are smart they keep DJax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 yep and that's like the theories in training camp this year that Porkchop would adequately fill in for Hutch, Burelson is an overpaid return man and Hackett and Branch certainly won't put too much fear into the DB's of the league. If the Hawks are smart they keep DJax I agree with the Hugh Tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Whoever said I was quick to jump on Stevens---quick??? I have defended his pass droppin, trippin' over your own feet, triflin' ways for almost a decade now going back to college. I'm done. The guy can't stay out of his own way. That guy has dropped so many big passes in his career it's ridiculous. I'm just prayin' for Daniel Graham. I'll take Jerramy and I will support him, but it is time. It just ain't gonna work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As for Deion Branch....I've got a 20 spot that says he plays less offensive snaps than DJ Hackett or Bobby Engram in games where they all are healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As for Deion Branch....I've got a 20 spot that says he plays less offensive snaps than DJ Hackett or Bobby Engram in games where they all are healthy. Does it matter if they all aren't on the same NFL team? Hackett (exclusive rights) and Engram (unrestricted) may not be with the Seahawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 oh, they will be. Engram will come back cheap, and I think it will take a pretty big offer on Hackett for the Hawks not to match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As for Deion Branch....I've got a 20 spot that says he plays less offensive snaps than DJ Hackett or Bobby Engram in games where they all are healthy. I would take this bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Last 2 seasons (including post-season): Jackson: 23 games, 125 receptions, 1755 yards, 15 TD R.Moss: 29 games, 102 receptions, 1558 yards, 11 TD Jackson is 28, Moss is 29. Moss has had a horrible team situation the last two seasons in Oakland, Jackson has some bum knees. Not sure if Jackson has game break WR status, but he's a solid WR and definitely been the #1 in Seattle for the last 5-6 seasons. Just don't see him as a #1 WR outside the system. Don't throw out stats because you know that the Oakland offense and Seattle offense are NOT comparable. If we're talking straight up WR for WR I'd take Moss. And I guess BB is pointing out the nonsense of this whole thread but I'm sure there's a few errors there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 And I guess BB is pointing out the nonsense of this whole thread but I'm sure there's a few errors there. Wow looks pretty good. But I don't see the Seahawks cutting DJax either. It's not like Hackett has exploded onto the scene IMO he has to make more strides next year to be starter worthy. They paid a lot to get Kermit err I mean Branch to be their #1. Remember Jerramy Stevens is probably exiting SEA this year and I'm sure Hasselbeck wouldn't mind seeing a friendly face. If you think he had a bad year or isn't worthy you probably haven't seen this (Going down the TD column is enough for me). http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187568/gamelogs/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Don't throw out stats because you know that the Oakland offense and Seattle offense are NOT comparable. If we're talking straight up WR for WR I'd take Moss. And I guess BB is pointing out the nonsense of this whole thread but I'm sure there's a few errors there. Yea, the Oakland and Seattle Offense not being comparable is a given and it's pretty obvious the orginal poster is asking a question and not necessarily making a case. Has anyone determined recently if Moss wants to play the game anymore? Another thing to keep in mind with Djax, is although he has been injury prone the last 2 seasons, a lot of people seem to be contributing this solely to his knee. As far as I can remember the knee was fine all of 2006 and turf toe kept him out late in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Remember Jerramy Stevens is probably exiting SEA this year I think there is about a 75-80% chance he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yea, the Oakland and Seattle Offense not being comparable is a given and it's pretty obvious the orginal poster is asking a question and not necessarily making a case. Has anyone determined recently if Moss wants to play the game anymore? Another thing to keep in mind with Djax, is although he has been injury prone the last 2 seasons, a lot of people seem to be contributing this solely to his knee. As far as I can remember the knee was fine all of 2006 and turf toe kept him out late in the year. I watched some show with Moss on it this weekend that must've been taped after the season. Moss said that even with the mistakes he's made he regrets them and just wants to "win baby." Too bad he's on the Raiders. I think there is about a 75-80% chance he stays. I doubt it. IMO the 1st rounder will want more than SEA will be willing to pay for all the drops he has. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) IMO the 1st rounder will want more than SEA will be willing to pay for all the drops he has. We'll see. The Hawks will franchise Stevens for a cheap $4.3 million as they have very few unrestricted free agents. It makes little sense to get another TE involved in the Seahawk WCO at this point unless they are strictly run blocking. And Holmgren has always utilized TE's in the passing game. Edited February 14, 2007 by bushwacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) The original claim was "Djax is one of the top 10 WR's in the game when healthy." I'm inclined to think that top 5 might be accurate if you look at the last 4 years or so. Holy crap! Take off the mega-sized blue & green sunglasses. Do you even watch any football other than Seahawks games? If Jackson were one of the top 5 WRs in the league, this thread wouldn't exist. That Jackson is costing SEA $4M a year against the cap, give or take, and they are looking at moving him somewhere because of that tells you what his value is in SEA right off the bat. If Jackson were truly a dependable top 10 WR, SEA wouldn't even blink at a $4M cap hit every year from him. Edited February 14, 2007 by Bronco Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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