James Cameron: maker of the movie 'The Titanic'

[skins]

I have read about this tomb and dig for decades. The names are very common first century Jewish names so having them in one tomb doesnt seem all that surprising. They are all connected to Jesus and his family and story in one way or another, which is very interesting. What Cameron and the other guy who did this with him are saying is that they have gone to statisticians who say that it very very very unlikely that all of the names from the gospels connected to Jesus and his family and followers would appear in one tomb together.

 

I dont know but it is very interesting. They also claim that one ossuary has the nickname of one brother of Jesus--Josie (sp?)--which was a very uncommon name then.

[TheGrunt]

link to story and tells when documentary to be aired.

 

link

 

Good link here. I was going to post a link to here, but you got to it first.

A Hollywood director will today unveil three coffins he claims were those of Jesus, his mother Mary and his 'wife' Mary Magdalene.

 

James Cameron says he has proof that Jesus married Mary and that she bore him a son, Judah, who was buried alongside them.

 

The Titanic director has produced a documentary telling the story of ten stone coffins found in a 2,000-year-old tomb in Jerusalem by Israeli builders.

 

The Lost Tomb of Jesus, made for the Discovery Channel, will be shown in the U.S. this week and later in Britain by Channel 4.

 

Today, Cameron is holding a press conference on what he describes as 'one of the greatest archaeological finds of all time'.

 

Crucially, he is not denying the resurrection - as there were no bones in the caskets.

 

But the £2million film still strikes at the foundation of Christianity in the same manner as the novel The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown, in claiming that Jesus married and had a family.

 

His theory, which has already met with derision from experts, centres on a tomb found in the Talpiot suburb in 1980. Inside, archaeologists found ten coffins, or caskets for bones, and three skulls.

 

Six had names etched into them, which were translated as Jesus son of Joseph, Judah son of Jesus, Maria, Mariamne (thought to be Mary Magdalene's real name), Joseph and Matthew.

At the time the inscriptions provoked little interest. The Israeli Antiquities Authority said the names were common at the time.

 

A connection to the holy family was not made until 15 years later, when a film crew stumbled across the collection in a storeroom.

Though the bones had long since been reburied elsewhere, as was the custom, tiny traces of DNA left in the caskets were tested.

 

The results for the coffins labelled Jesus and Mariamne showed the two were not related by blood, leading Cameron and his team to conclude they were married.

 

The film's Israeli director, Simcha Jacobovici, said: 'Either this cluster-of names represents the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

 

'Or some other family, with this very same constellation of names, existed at precisely the same time in history in Jerusalem.'

 

The idea that Mary Magdalene had a child with Jesus was the main theme of The Da Vinci Code. The book claimed their union was kept secret in a church conspiracy.

 

The location of Cameron's conference is being kept secret until the last moment to stop crowds trying to see the artefacts. The cave in which they were found has also been put under armed guard.

 

However, the archaeologist who oversaw the work at the tomb described the theory as 'nonsense'.

 

Amos Kloner said the names found on the coffins had been found in tombs before, adding: 'It makes a great story for a TV film, but it's impossible.

'Jesus and his relatives were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the first century.'

Hopefully the documentary isn't one-sided and continues to show the other side of the theory as well, such as at the end of this story where the archaeologist who oversaw the work at the tomb described the theory as 'nonsense'.... good stuff, and I know I'll be watching this documentary.

[skins]

Good link here. I was going to post a link to here, but you got to it first.

 

Hopefully the documentary isn't one-sided and continues to show the other side of the theory as well, such as at the end of this story where the archaeologist who oversaw the work at the tomb described the theory as 'nonsense'.... good stuff, and I know I'll be watching this documentary.

 

 

The archaelogist who referred to it as nonsense is not a statistician and that is the only relevant issue. The question is how statistically likely could it be, because we will never almost certainly actually have hard proof. So that archaelogists opinion is really meaningless.

[TheGrunt]

The archaelogist who referred to it as nonsense is not a statistician and that is the only relevant issue. The question is how statistically likely could it be, because we will never almost certainly actually have hard proof. So that archaelogists opinion is really meaningless.

 

Yes. Very true. But I've seen several documentary's in the past that have been bias, or skewed in a certain way so that the audience can only really get a grasp with one side of the subject. A documentary that has opinions and arguments for both side of the theory is typically more well-rounded and easier to watch if you are uncertain about the findings or statistics in the film. But you are right, throwing less than credible figures in the film won't help much with the facts and data that is being argued or looked at.

[Azazello1313]

The archaelogist who referred to it as nonsense is not a statistician and that is the only relevant issue. The question is how statistically likely could it be, because we will never almost certainly actually have hard proof. So that archaelogists opinion is really meaningless.

 

 

he may not be a statistician, but he probably has a pretty good handle (better than anyone else) on the discovery and how it fits into the overall context of what we know about ancient palestine and how much we can reasonably extract from it. on that basis i would say his opinion is absolutely valid. much more valid, say, than james cameron's.

[TheGrunt]

Official website for The Lost Tomb of Jesus

 

[skins]

he may not be a statistician, but he probably has a pretty good handle (better than anyone else) on the discovery and how it fits into the overall context of what we know about ancient palestine and how much we can reasonably extract from it. on that basis i would say his opinion is absolutely valid. much more valid, say, than james cameron's.

 

 

Why would he have a better handle on how the discovery fits into what we know about ancient palestine just because he did the original dig. As far as I can tell, everything he is saying is mere speculation. At a minimum, his opinion seems to have no more support than the claims of Cameron and boils down to his claim that the family of Jesus didnt have a Jerusalem family tomb--how could he know this?--and that the names were common.

[Azazello1313]

Why would he have a better handle on how the discovery fits into what we know about ancient palestine just because he did the original dig.

 

probably because he's an archaeologist who specializes in ancient palestine. there happens to be a lot more to being an archaeologist than using a shovel.

[skins]

probably because he's an archaeologist who specializes in ancient palestine. there happens to be a lot more to being an archaeologist than using a shovel.

 

 

So you think that means he has a better handle on it than anyone else? What do you make of his absolute statement that the family of Jesus did not have a family tomb in Jerusalem. You think he has inside info, or his extra non-shovel knowledge gives him speciall insights?

[Azazello1313]

So you think that means he has a better handle on it than anyone else?

 

he's an expert in the field, and he also happens to be the person who knows best exactly what they found, where and how they found it, etc. and yeah, i would say knowing all those details firsthand would give him a little better insight on this particular discovery, at this point in time, than other experts in the same field.

 

What do you make of his absolute statement that the family of Jesus did not have a family tomb in Jerusalem.

 

probably a pretty safe assumption, since they lived in galilee.

 

bottom line, this guy has a TON to gain by jumping in with the whole cameron circus. but it would appear he has a little bit of academic and professional integrity keeping him from doing so.

[I Like Soup]

If they get Al Gore to be the main presenter in the documentary, then I'll believe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skins]

he's an expert in the field, and he also happens to be the person who knows best exactly what they found, where and how they found it, etc. and yeah, i would say knowing all those details firsthand would give him a little better insight on this particular discovery, at this point in time, than other experts in the same field.

probably a pretty safe assumption, since they lived in galilee.

 

bottom line, this guy has a TON to gain by jumping in with the whole cameron circus. but it would appear he has a little bit of academic and professional integrity keeping him from doing so.

 

 

How fine of a razor's edge do you think you can refine yer comments without actually admitting this guy has no more knowledge of whether the family of Jesus had a tomb in Jerusalem than you do?

 

And everything he found, and his exhaustive recording of it, is being reviewed by other people who may have more insight than he does into the times back then in Palestine. I am going to place this piece of coal in yer heinie and when I return to this thread I expect you to have compressed it so methodically and thoroughly that you have produced a shiny diamond.

 

Go.

[whitem0nkey]

this is a quote I found it relates to this a bit.

 

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson

[Doc Holliday]

this is a quote I found it relates to this a bit.

 

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson

 

 

 

For a inbred crazed maniac that Jefferson said some smart things.

[Chavez]

probably a pretty safe assumption, since they lived in galilee.

 

 

Where was Jesus crucified?

[wiegie]

I find it amusing that some people who believe the climatologists concerning global warming don't believe the archeologists concerning this being "Jesus'" tomb; while some people who don't believe the climatologists concerning global warming do believe the archeologists in this situation.

 

Either you adhere to the scientific method or you don't. Make up your minds, gentlemen.

 

(Edit to add: I see that Soup already hinted at this dichotomy.)

Edited February 27, 2007 by wiegie

[Savage Beatings]

I find it amusing that some people who believe the climatologists concerning global warming don't believe the archeologists concerning this being "Jesus'" tomb; while some people who don't believe the climatologists concerning global warming do believe the archeologists in this situation.

 

Either you adhere to the scientific method or you don't. Make up your minds, gentlemen.

 

 

 

Of course in both cases we're dealing in probabilities and not certainties... and yet both sides of each issue would seem to want to convince people that their side of the argument is indeed an indubitable certainty. Madness!

[BeeR]

My biggest problem is with those that toe the "party line" so to speak. Unwilling to at least entertain the idea that things can be questioned, even the dogma that is being spread from on high.

Ironically, I've met/talked to many atheists for whom that description is 100% accurate. (tho I suspect most atheists are closet agnostics anyway)

[skins]

 

probably a pretty safe assumption, since they lived in galilee.

 

Really? James, too?

[BeeR]

Either you adhere to the scientific method or you don't. Make up your minds, gentlemen.

 

oh cmon that's no fun.

 

 

Cameron: laughing all the way to the bank

[Jimmy Neutron]

What Cameron and the other guy who did this with him are saying is that they have gone to statisticians who say that it very very very unlikely that all of the names from the gospels connected to Jesus and his family and followers would appear in one tomb together.

 

 

I saw those statistics on the news tonight, roughly 1 in 97,000,000.

 

Cameron: laughing all the way to the bank

 

 

Yeah, but I think this one may come up a little short of Gibson's Jesus movie.

[Azazello1313]

Where was Jesus crucified?

 

 

so is the hypothesis that after jesus was murdered up on a cross for running afoul of both the roman and jewish power structures in jerusalem, his wife, kid and everybody in his entourage just decided to hang out there until they died too? doesn't really seem like the most obvious course of action, does it?

 

i'm sorry, the whole notion just runs contrary to all the best information about jesus that is available. it doesn't offend me religiously, it offends what i know about the history of the time and place. this is a cooked up story to make money, just like the stream of people through the ages who have said they found noah's ark, gone around hocking relics, supposed pieces of the cross, jesus' burial shroud, and on and on and on. every generation for 2000 years there've been people like skins all too willing to lap it up.

[Azazello1313]

I find it amusing that some people who believe the climatologists concerning global warming don't believe the archeologists concerning this being "Jesus'" tomb; while some people who don't believe the climatologists concerning global warming do believe the archeologists in this situation.

 

 

hey, cameronskins doesn't need historians and archaelogists....he's got a statistician to prove his theory!

[spain]

probably a pretty safe assumption, since they lived in galilee.

 

 

 

Really? James, too?

 

No. James Cameron lives in Hollywood with a bunch of other kooks...

Edited February 27, 2007 by spain

[moneymakers]

The grave of Jesus?

 

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John must feel flattered indeed this morning. And frustrated. After The DaVinci Code sold 40 million copies by writing its own heretical story of Jesus' life and supposed marriage to Mary Magdalene, two filmmakers are trying their hand at the genre. James Cameron, director of Titanic and The Terminator, has teamed with TV director Simcha Jacobivici to claim they have evidence of a tomb housing the remains of Jesus and his family.

 

Today's New York Times reports on their documentary, set to air next Sunday on the Discovery Channel. It deals with a crypt unearthed 27 years ago in Jerusalem. An area in the East Talpiyot neighborhood of the city was being excavated for a building in 1980 when ten burial boxes, or ossuaries, were found in the tomb. Six of them had inscriptions. The documentary claims that the inscriptions are those of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene, Matthew, Joseph (Jesus' brother), and Judah. The last is purported to be the son of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.

 

The filmmakers admit that these names were extremely common in the first century, something like Bob, Mike, and Susan today. But they argue that the odds of finding all six in a single tomb are small. There are no bones in the ossuaries, though DNA testing on residue is claimed to indicate that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were not related and thus must have been married.

 

The Catholic League has responded quickly to these allegations: "Not a Lenten season goes by without some author or TV program seeking to cast doubt on the divinity of Jesus and/or the Resurrection. Last April, NBC's 'Dateline' featured the wholly discredited and downright laughable claims of Michael Baigent, and two years ago ABC treated us to a special that questioned every aspect of the Resurrection. Now we have the Cameron-Jacobovici thesis.

 

"Israeli archaeologist Amos Kloner was in charge of the 1980 investigation of the tomb that Cameron-Jacobovici have seized on 27 years later to make their allegations. 'The claim that the burial site has been found is not based on any proof, and is only an attempt to sell,' Kloner says. He adds, 'I refute all claims and efforts to waken a renewed interest in the findings. With all due respect, they are not archaeologists.' Indeed, Kloner has branded their claims 'impossible' and 'nonsense.' Moreover, he says there is 'no likelihood' that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. 'It makes a great story for a TV film,' he concludes." There's much more to the story, as we'll see tomorrow.