Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 What about Michael Irvin? Not to mention Deion, who was a complete a$$hat for the first half of his career. Not sure if he compares to Randy, but still. And if you want to get into other sports, Ty Cobb and Bobby Hull were terrible human beings. Randy will eventually get in, but he might have to wait a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Not to mention Deion, who was a complete a$$hat for the first half of his career. Not sure if he compares to Randy, but still. And if you want to get into other sports, Ty Cobb and Bobby Hull were terrible human beings. Randy will eventually get in, but he might have to wait a while. What did Deion do? He's not in the HOF yet either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) one drug arrest while he was a player, for which he paid a fine and was put on probation. probably one of the reasons he didn't get in until his third year of eligibility. But you will never, ever hear anyone say that Irvin didn't give it his all on game day. and he won 3 SB's. diidn't blow up his relationship with Aikman. never was traded. never kicked out of college. He had some more drug charges right after he retired too. This idea of "dogging it" is so far beyond me. I have said this so many times but I guess I need to say this again: the quote of "I play when I want to play" was taken out of context somewhat as the question asked was about how he motivates himself. Jerry Rice came out and said he had no problem with what Moss said and that everyone takes plays off, even himself. And kicked out of college? So we are now going to hold what people do before they get in the pro leagues against them? He obviously had a bad history but he hasn't gotten into trouble like that with the law again. Yes, the cop car pushing thing was bad but eyewitness accounts differ. He probably did something, but in the same breath we don't know and it was conflicted. Kevin Garnett of the Timberwolves beat a kid when he was in high school and got charged at one point, sorta like Randy Moss. Is he a scumbag? He is probably amongst the classiest players in the NBA. Edited June 28, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Not to mention Deion, who was a complete a$$hat for the first half of his career. Not sure if he compares to Randy, but still. And if you want to get into other sports, Ty Cobb and Bobby Hull were terrible human beings. Randy will eventually get in, but he might have to wait a while. Ty Cobb was one person who clearly came to the forefront for me. The guy beat his wife in public, said racial slurs in public, and was a alcoholic, in public. The racial things were part of a different time period you could argue, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 What did Deion do? You don't remember Deion showing up the White Sox by drawing a dollar sign in the dirt before stepping into the batter's box? Carlton Fisk almost punched him out on the spot. Deion's... or, sorry, "Prime Time's" obnoxious persona and constant whining about his salary didn't exactly endear him to HOF voters, either. He's not in the HOF yet either. I think it's fair to assume that the best cover corner in NFL history will get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 He had some more drug charges right after he retired too. This idea of "dogging it" is so far beyond me. I have said this so many times but I guess I need to say this again: the quote of "I play when I want to play" was taken out of context somewhat as the question asked was about how he motivates himself. Jerry Rice came out and said he had no problem with what Moss said and that everyone takes plays off, even himself. And kicked out of college? So we are now going to hold what people do before they get in the pro leagues against them? He obviously had a bad history but he hasn't gotten into trouble like that with the law again. Yes, the cop car pushing thing was bad but eyewitness accounts differ. He probably did something, but in the same breath we don't know and it was conflicted. Kevin Garnett of the Timberwolves beat a kid when he was in high school and got charged at one point, sorta like Randy Moss. Is he a scumbag? I wasn't referring to the "play when I want to play". Of course everyone takes plays off. But Randy does it more than most, and makes it quite obvious. And if you don't think he was dogging it in Oakland, you weren't paying attention. Once again, it's not one single thing with Moss. It's cumulative. The guy has enought talent to be the best WR who ever played. But he is content with being borderline HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 You don't remember Deion showing up the White Sox by drawing a dollar sign in the dirt before stepping into the batter's box? Carlton Fisk almost punched him out on the spot. Deion's... or, sorry, "Prime Time's" obnoxious persona and constant whining about his salary didn't exactly endear him to HOF voters, either. I think it's fair to assume that the best cover corner in NFL history will get in. I thought you meant there was something other than his Prime Time persona that he had done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Ty Cobb was one person who clearly came to the forefront for me. The guy beat his wife in public, said racial slurs in public, and was a alcoholic, in public. The racial things were part of a different time period you could argue, but still. What's said is that Hull did all of that as well (except for beating his wife in public... that went on behind closed doors). Oh, and let's not forget Barry Bonds. He makes Randy look like a choir boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I thought you meant there was something other than his Prime Time persona that he had done. You must not watch much baseball, because showing up another team like that is a HUGE no-no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I wasn't referring to the "play when I want to play". Of course everyone takes plays off. But Randy does it more than most, and makes it quite obvious. And if you don't think he was dogging it in Oakland, you weren't paying attention. Once again, it's not one single thing with Moss. It's cumulative. The guy has enought talent to be the best WR who ever played. But he is content with being borderline HOF. Once again, I clearly said that the one thing you can hold against him was his time in Oakland because he quit on that team. But many players did and management did too. Randy was just magnified because he was the "star" on that team and was suppose to be a leader, which he isn't. You are correct about it being cumulative and more obvious than other players, that is a good point. The guy needs some motivation and wants to win, and I think that he will do well in New England and show people what kind of player he really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Oh, and let's not forget Barry Bonds. He makes Randy look like a choir boy. Haha, Barry Bonds is for sure in the HOF, not even a question. He might be the biggest jerk ever, I don't care. His teammates love him though, except for Jeff Kent that is. Edited June 28, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Haha, Barry Bonds is for sure in the HOF, not even a question. He might be the biggest jerk ever, I don't care. His teammates love him though, except for Jeff Kent that is. Nah, Ty Cobb was way worse than Barry. Cobb went into the stands and pummeled a cripple. It doesn't get much worse than that. And quite a few of his former teammates hate his guts. I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of Jeff Pearlman's book "Love Me, Hate Me." It's a very good read and gives some insight into Barry's mind. Dude has A LOT of psychological issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Nah, Ty Cobb was way worse than Barry. Cobb went into the stands and pummeled a cripple. It doesn't get much worse than that. And quite a few of his former teammates hate his guts. I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of Jeff Pearlman's book "Love Me, Hate Me." It's a very good read and gives some insight into Barry's mind. Dude has A LOT of psychological issues. I will pick up that book, thanks for the suggestion. Is he a HOF in your mind though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I will pick up that book, thanks for the suggestion. Is he a HOF in your mind though? Barry? Absolutely. He was a first-ballot HOFer 10 years ago. He's the greatest position player of our generation. This guy's talent (and his father's as well) was is off-the-charts unbelievable. Good thing that Barry was able to stay away from the bottle (unlike dad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Barry? Absolutely. He was a first-ballot HOFer 10 years ago. He's the greatest position player of our generation. This guy's talent (and his father's as well) was is off-the-charts unbelievable. Good thing that Barry was able to stay away from the bottle (unlike dad). I disagree that he's the greatest position player of our generation... Even though he became injury prone right around the time he turned 30, I still think Ken Griffey Jr. Is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I disagree that he's the greatest position player of our generation... Even though he became injury prone right around the time he turned 30, I still think Ken Griffey Jr. Is the best. Every kid loved Griffey including me. I wish he was the one breaking the record as he would have crushed it. Griffey's numbers don't even compare to Bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Bill, you ought to know better than anyone from your participation in numerous Vick threads - when someone is swinging from a player's nutsack there is no way you're going to convince them otherwise from their opinion regardless of how many facts you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Barry? Absolutely. He was a first-ballot HOFer 10 years ago. He's the greatest position player of our generation. This guy's talent (and his father's as well) was is off-the-charts unbelievable. Good thing that Barry was able to stay away from the bottle (unlike dad). too bad he couldn't stay away from the needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Brady's never put up eye-popping stats. . . Brady's numbers are better than people seem to want to give him credit for. And he's done it with an average-to-worse group of WRs. Not trying to start a debate, I just think that's a pretty apparent observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 He has all the talent in the world, but none of the work ethic. He should catch 100 balls every single year. There is no way Marvin Harrison should put up better numbers than Randy Moss. But Moss is a quitter when things aren't going well. He dogs it on the field even when they are. And he doesn't work hard at making himself the best WR he can be. Those are the reasons he isn't in the same category as Harrison. This is all true. Of course, when a player spent the better part of a decade being the most feared WR in the league, poor work ethic and bad locker room influence aside, I have to say I think Dr Z is talking out of his ass. I can't see Moss as anything but a HoF lock. Maybe the Pro Football HoF voters will start acting like the baseball twats and decide that Moss is a HoFer, just not a "first ballot" HoFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Like I said earlier, Moss doesn't have enough to get in if his career ended today. 4-4 in the play-offs, including 0-2 in the NFC Championship. 5 of his 9 teams have been .500 or worse. A 1000 yard season and a SB ring would put him in the HOF for sure though. You're holding playoff record against a WR? That is just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 You don't remember Deion showing up the White Sox by drawing a dollar sign in the dirt before stepping into the batter's box? Carlton Fisk almost punched him out on the spot. . As I recall, Pudge had issues getting into the Hall as well - namely because he came close to almost punching out reporters on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Haha, Barry Bonds is for sure in the HOF, not even a question. He might be the biggest jerk ever, I don't care. His teammates love him though, except for Jeff Kent that is. I've heard that trying to decide who to root for in a Kent and Bonds squabble was like trying to figure out if you wanted Hitler or Stalin to win in a knife fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) I disagree that he's the greatest position player of our generation... Even though he became injury prone right around the time he turned 30, I still think Ken Griffey Jr. Is the best. Barry - 749 HRs, 1.052 OPS, 514 SBs, the single-season HR record, 7 league MVPs , 8 Gold Gloves, 13 Silver Slugger awards. Even before he began taking 'roids and HGH (1999), he had 400 homers, 400 stolen bases, and 3 MVPs. Griffey - 584 HRs, .932 OPS, 180 SBs, two 50-HR seasons, one league MVP, 10 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Slugger awards. Griffey is obviously the better defensive player and better human being (although he did whine a lot in Seattle when he thought that A-Rod was getting too much attention). But even taking Barry's steroid-inflated numbers out of the equation, I'd say that he's the better overall player by a good margin. Edited June 28, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 A-Rod, Griffey, Bonds...BASEBALL...WOW! This thread gets my vote for the "Hijacked Thread of the Year" award! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.