This nation defeated the Nazis, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy in 4 yrs.

[Brewer]

Do you really think that Osama would the gop after him thank Mrs. Tuna and Mr. Peppermint?

What? Osama is still alive, and Bush is off starting civil wars and giving Osama all of the PR that he needs to recruit his mindless drones. So yes, I think that Osama is perfectly happy with the current incompetent administration in control.

[SF409ers]

Also do not forget the Mexican contribution.

 

[Ursa Majoris]

Also do not forget the Mexican contribution.

 

 

When you know F all about history, the wisest course is to keep yer trap shut.

 

Mexican pilots received additional training in the United States and in 1945 fought valiantly in the air war in the Phillipines. Only one squadron, Number 201, actually saw combat. Nicknamed "The Aztec Eagles," they flew P-47 Thunderbolt fighters and offered close ground support for U.S. and Philipino ground forces as they struggled to liberate the islands from the Japanese. Decorated by the United States, Mexico and the Phillipines, its 31 pilots and approximately 150 ground support personnel were the only Mexican military force to serve outside of Mexico. Of the squadron's 31 pilots, 5 were killed in action. Its personnel, both pilots and ground support elements certainly deserve to be regarded as heros by both Mexico and the United States.

 

Also unrecognized, untold numbers of Mexicans, particularly those with relatives in the U.S., flocked across the border and served in all branches of the U.S. military. How many of them were killed is unknown. For those who chose to become U.S. citizens, citizenship was automatic. However, over the years, many returned to Mexico despite their new citizenship.

 

Mexico in WW2

 

It's not hard to look this stuff up

[Chavez]

Ursa is apparently forgetting the "polky is an ignorant douchebag" rule of thumb.

 

Suthen, ig-nint, and proud of it!

[SF409ers]

When you know F all about history, the wisest course is to keep yer trap shut.

 

QUOTE

Mexican pilots received additional training in the United States and in 1945 fought valiantly in the air war in the Phillipines. Only one squadron, Number 201, actually saw combat. Nicknamed "The Aztec Eagles," they flew P-47 Thunderbolt fighters and offered close ground support for U.S. and Philipino ground forces as they struggled to liberate the islands from the Japanese. Decorated by the United States, Mexico and the Phillipines, its 31 pilots and approximately 150 ground support personnel were the only Mexican military force to serve outside of Mexico. Of the squadron's 31 pilots, 5 were killed in action. Its personnel, both pilots and ground support elements certainly deserve to be regarded as heros by both Mexico and the United States.

 

Also unrecognized, untold numbers of Mexicans, particularly those with relatives in the U.S., flocked across the border and served in all branches of the U.S. military. How many of them were killed is unknown. For those who chose to become U.S. citizens, citizenship was automatic. However, over the years, many returned to Mexico despite their new citizenship.

 

I actually know a lot about history. I just found the remark he made funny do to the snide nature of it. I find myself laughing quite a bit at comments like that whether I agree or disagree about the point being made, a good example, is H8tank, that dude cracks me up all the time with some of the crazy sh*t he posts.

 

I also commend your attempt to explain Mexico's involvement and I am not bagging on them but don't act like my laughing at the Mexico comment was so out of line based on the stats above.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Do you really think that Osama would the gop after him thank Mrs. Tuna and Mr. Peppermint?

Umm......what?

[Retrograde assault]

Really? 1941-45

 

Germany and Russia had a non aggression pact to begin with and Germany betrayed Russia before Russia could betray Germany! American aid helped saved Russia from itself and the Nazis. Without that, there would have been no cold war, because there would have been no frigging Russia!

[Retrograde assault]

And today, Americans are they're own worst stinking enemies. Fools!

[Ursa Majoris]

Germany and Russia had a non aggression pact to begin with and Germany betrayed Russia before Russia could betray Germany! American aid helped saved Russia from itself and the Nazis. Without that, there would have been no cold war, because there would have been no frigging Russia!

True, but no Russia would have meant an impossible invasion and complete German domination of Europe and most of Asia, probably ad infinitum.

[polksalet]

When you know F all about history, the wisest course is to keep yer trap shut.

Mexico in WW2

 

It's not hard to look this stuff up

 

You are also aware that untold numbers of lesbian Eskimos fought in the war aren't you? I mean, it was untold numbers. Those untold numbers often save us. After all, they are untold numbers. Also do not forget the contribution of untold numbers french transvestites. I think there were like a bazillion of them.

 

Untold numbers.

[polksalet]

Ursa is apparently forgetting the "polky is an ignorant douchebag" rule of thumb.

 

Suthen, ig-nint, and proud of it!

 

newbie tool

[polksalet]

True, but no Russia would have meant an impossible invasion and complete German domination of Europe and most of Asia, probably ad infinitum.

 

I agree. The russians did far moe to defeat the nazis than our guys did. They lost like millions of troops getting to and taking berlin nt counting stalingrad, etc.

[SF409ers]

True, but no Russia would have meant an impossible invasion and complete German domination of Europe and most of Asia, probably ad infinitum.

 

That may be true but what we do know for certain is that without America there would definitelty have been no Russia and we are grateful that we never had to find out the what if no Russia scenario. A major factor that the land invasion was able to take place was the fact that we established air superiority, conquered North Africa and gained control of the Atlantic, allowing the Allies to control the skies and bomb the sh*t out of the Germans and move our boys in over sea and air. I will not disregard the fact that the eastern front used a significant amount of German forces and produced unfathomable casualties on both sides lessing the Germans resources significantly, but since we will never know for sure the possibility of success without a Russia I think it's hard to say with certainty that invasion would have been impossible, improbable maybe but impossible I would like to hope we would have found a way to win either way. We would have unfortunately probably had to resort to using "the bomb" in Europe as well. And Asia is whole other story, we won that because our Navy and Marines pulled out victories in some of the greatest battles in the history of warfare. That was an enemy similar of the kind that we fight today in that they had no regard for their own life as death was an honor and self sacrifice came upon order. It is hard to imagine trying to fight an enemy that is trying to beat you to killing itself. Again we resorted to "the bomb" to smash them into submission or they would have probably fought till every last man, woman, and child in Japan was killed. In an ironic way had Einstein not warned the FDR about his fear of Germany acquiring the bomb, we would not have acquired it first, giving us in the end, sadly but truly, the upper hand.

[Ursa Majoris]

Lease lend to Russia during WW2:

 

 

US deliveries to USSRAmerican deliveries to the Soviet Union can be divided into the following phases:* "pre Lend-lease" 22 June 1941 to 30 September 1941 (paid for in gold)* first protocol period from 1 October 1941 to 30 June 1942 (signed 1 October 1941)* second protocol period from 1 July 1942 to 30 June 1943 (signed 6 October 1942)* third protocol period from 1 July 1943 to 30 June 1944 (signed 19 October 1943)* fourth protocol period from 1 July 1944, (signed 17 April 1945), formally ended 12 May 1945 but deliveries continued for the duration of the war with Japan (which the Soviet Union entered on the 8 August 1945) under the "Milepost" agreement until 2 September 1945 when Japan capitulated. 20 September 1945 all Lend-Lease to Russia was terminated.The list 1 below is the amount of war matériel shipped to the Soviet Union through the Lend-Lease program from its beginning until 30 September 1945.Aircraft 	14,795Tanks 	7,056Jeeps 	51,503Trucks 	375,883Motorcycles 	35,170Tractors 	8,071Guns 	8,218Machine guns 	131,633Explosives 	345,735 tonsBuilding equipment valued 	$10,910,000Railroad freight cars 	11,155Locomotives 	1,981Cargo ships 	90Submarine hunters 	105Torpedo boats 	197Ship engines 	7,784Food supplies 	4,478,000 tonsMachines and equipment 	$1,078,965,000Non-ferrous metals 	802,000 tonsPetroleum products 	2,670,000 tonsChemicals 	842,000 tonsCotton 	106,893,000 tonsLeather 	49,860 tonsTires 	3,786,000Army boots 	15,417,001 pairs

 

Impressive. Certainly this was invaluable but remember that Stalin had industrialized the areas east of the Urals and in Central Asia pre-war so the Russians were able to literally dismantle their heavy industry in the path of the Germans, put it on trains and rebuild it again hundreds of miles east of Moscow. Notice that the tanks and aircraft most responsible for the eventual victory were the T-34 and the Stormovik, both Russian. (The 34 in T-34 is the year the first one was produced).

[polksalet]

Lease lend to Russia during WW2:

 

 

US deliveries to USSRAmerican deliveries to the Soviet Union can be divided into the following phases:* "pre Lend-lease" 22 June 1941 to 30 September 1941 (paid for in gold)* first protocol period from 1 October 1941 to 30 June 1942 (signed 1 October 1941)* second protocol period from 1 July 1942 to 30 June 1943 (signed 6 October 1942)* third protocol period from 1 July 1943 to 30 June 1944 (signed 19 October 1943)* fourth protocol period from 1 July 1944, (signed 17 April 1945), formally ended 12 May 1945 but deliveries continued for the duration of the war with Japan (which the Soviet Union entered on the 8 August 1945) under the "Milepost" agreement until 2 September 1945 when Japan capitulated. 20 September 1945 all Lend-Lease to Russia was terminated.The list 1 below is the amount of war matériel shipped to the Soviet Union through the Lend-Lease program from its beginning until 30 September 1945.Aircraft 	14,795Tanks 	7,056Jeeps 	51,503Trucks 	375,883Motorcycles 	35,170Tractors 	8,071Guns 	8,218Machine guns 	131,633Explosives 	345,735 tonsBuilding equipment valued 	$10,910,000Railroad freight cars 	11,155Locomotives 	1,981Cargo ships 	90Submarine hunters 	105Torpedo boats 	197Ship engines 	7,784Food supplies 	4,478,000 tonsMachines and equipment 	$1,078,965,000Non-ferrous metals 	802,000 tonsPetroleum products 	2,670,000 tonsChemicals 	842,000 tonsCotton 	106,893,000 tonsLeather 	49,860 tonsTires 	3,786,000Army boots 	15,417,001 pairs

 

Impressive. Certainly this was invaluable but remember that Stalin had industrialized the areas east of the Urals and in Central Asia pre-war so the Russians were able to literally dismantle their heavy industry in the path of the Germans, put it on trains and rebuild it again hundreds of miles east of Moscow. Notice that the tanks and aircraft most responsible for the eventual victory were the T-34 and the Stormovik, both Russian. (The 34 in T-34 is the year the first one was produced).

 

I would write story and provide links about the t-34 if anyone were interested but most people don't care about the finer points of WWII. It is a shame because that tank did as much to win the war as the entire russian army.

[Ursa Majoris]

I would write story and provide links about the t-34 if anyone were interested but most people don't care about the finer points of WWII. It is a shame because that tank did as much to win the war as the entire russian army.

I'm interested. The design was way ahead of it's time, with the sloping glacis plate to deflect inbound shells. The Germans modeled the Panther on it late in the war.

[polksalet]

I'm interested. The design was way ahead of it's time, with the sloping glacis plate to deflect inbound shells. The Germans modeled the Panther on it late in the war.

 

At one point the front was so close to a factory that they were literally driving the tanks out the door and into the battle. How crazy is that??

[Clubfoothead]

Just cause?

[AtomicCEO]

A military victory over islamic terrorism is not something that is possible without an unfathomable genocide of arabs by America.

 

An easy definition of victory would have been: the capture or elimination of Bin Laden and his inner circle of Al Qaeda cohorts. Not only would that have been a deterrent to future attackers, but it would have immediately eliminated a known threat. But this administration has not made it a priority, or even pretended that it is a major goal.

 

Without a definition of victory, I don't see how we can possibly claim to win a war. "Remove Hitler from power", "Take out the regimented Japanese army", these are clearly defined objectives that an army can accomplish.

 

The war on "terrorism" is a fight against a concept without even a defined enemy. Victory is so poorly defined and clouded in stupid rhetoric that I have to believe the administrations actual goal is to constantly have a war spending budget and a scared electorate willing to give the government any power they ask for... without any desire for it to end.

 

Any real solution to our country's fear of terrorism would involve more diplomacy than guns, and this administration has sabotaged that every step of the way.

Edited November 11, 2007 by AtomicCEO

[I Like Soup]

Hitler flat out screwed the pooch with his "strategy" to win the war. The German war machine was unstoppable until some of the finer points of strategy were completely hosed. I love me some history and especially WWII. I just don't feel like arguing it as haven't we done that before?

 

Anyway, my favorite aircraft is the Spitfire and WWII was definitely the golden age of flight. So many advancements, massive amounts of targets, true pilot involvement (read: no computers), etc.

 

Yes, those T34s were bad ass. A major contributor to the Russian push, much akin to the P51 on the Western Front's push for daylight bombing. I am still amazed the Germans were able to mass produce the quality of war machines and still have an aggressive R&D program. If the ME 262 had been introduced a little earlier (and Hitler had not at first insisted it be used as a bomber), the bombing raids would have been seriously jeopardized, etc.

 

When you look at it, WWII is really an amazing conflict. The sacrifices of countries, advancements, the cunning to hide factories, etc. to continually build equipment in the face of advancing fronts, bombing, etc.

[dmarc117]

Hitler flat out screwed the pooch with his "strategy" to win the war. The German war machine was unstoppable until some of the finer points of strategy were completely hosed. I love me some history and especially WWII. I just don't feel like arguing it as haven't we done that before?

 

Anyway, my favorite aircraft is the Spitfire and WWII was definitely the golden age of flight. So many advancements, massive amounts of targets, true pilot involvement (read: no computers), etc.

 

Yes, those T34s were bad ass. A major contributor to the Russian push, much akin to the P51 on the Western Front's push for daylight bombing. I am still amazed the Germans were able to mass produce the quality of war machines and still have an aggressive R&D program. If the ME 262 had been introduced a little earlier (and Hitler had not at first insisted it be used as a bomber), the bombing raids would have been seriously jeopardized, etc.

 

When you look at it, WWII is really an amazing conflict. The sacrifices of countries, advancements, the cunning to hide factories, etc. to continually build equipment in the face of advancing fronts, bombing, etc.

 

 

theres a book out there with a great premise, but poorly written imo. What If? it takes on the ideas of how our world wouldve been different if certain wars or battles turned out differently.

 

What if Hitler had not attacked Russia when he did? He might have moved into the Middle East and secured the oil supplies the Third Reich so badly needed, helping it retain its power in Europe.

 

Ambrose suggests that Allied defeat on D-Day would have meant nuclear devastation for Germany in the summer of 1945.

Edited November 11, 2007 by dmarc117

[bushwacked]

On the first I voted fat ,comfortable and uncaring.

 

On the second I did not have a good choice. I believe the ragheads will attack after the nest election if the democrats get in power. They will not attack before then and help the gop to get in office. The only thing I can tell you is, terrorists would rather see democrats in office.

 

I refuse to believe that you are dumb enough to actually think terrorists give a flying f whether we put a dems or repubs in power.

[AtomicCEO]

I refuse to believe that you are dumb enough to actually think terrorists give a flying f whether we put a dems or repubs in power.

 

I don't believe terrorists are scared of republicans. What are they afraid of... if they attack again, we'll invade Brazil?

 

I tell you what they'd be scared of... hunting them down and killing them where they stood immediately after an attack.

[bushwacked]

I don't believe terrorists are scared of republicans. What are they afraid of... if they attack again, we'll invade Brazil?

 

I tell you what they'd be scared of... hunting them down and killing them where they stood immediately after an attack.

 

 

Of course, I was just trying to take baby steps with Polk before pointing out how really freaking retarded he sounded.

[AtomicCEO]

Of course, I was just trying to take baby steps with Polk before pointing out how really freaking retarded he sounded.

 

Sorry.