MTSuper7 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Another way to look at it ... the FIRST TIME players acquired NOW would be eligible to be inserted into his starting lineup is in WEEK 14, which is the first week of his playoffs. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Then why were they allowed to process pickups at all then? I'm not disagreeing with your logic Grits, but isn't it misleading that owners were allowed to make requests and have them processed this week? And without a clearly defined rule to point to, how can a commish justify undoing the pickups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 The NFL considers it the same ... the injury report released this week will be for WEEK 14 and not for WEEK 13. thats because its a report for week 14 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Seems pretty cut and dried to me. of course it does you only ever see your stance on things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 I wouldn't argue semantics on this (although I'll state my league's week ends at the conclusion of the Monday night game, with the next week starting then as well - only thing that matters for is trade deadline is week 9 - conclusion of Monday night game for week 9) What I would ask is simply "what was the intent of 'rosters are locked for playoffs'" If it was to mean that whatever your team ended the reg season as is what you use for the playoffs, she's right If it means once the playoffs started, you couldn't then make anymore changes roudn to round, she's wrong. MEaning, do you get to declare a 'playoff roster' like baseball, or is your playoff roster whatever you ended week 13 with. my interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Then why were they allowed to process pickups at all then? I'm not disagreeing with your logic Grits, but isn't it misleading that owners were allowed to make requests and have them processed this week? And without a clearly defined rule to point to, how can a commish justify undoing the pickups? This just in ... commissioners are human ... they sometimes make mistakes. The fact that the commissioner may have mistakenly set up the deadline incorrectly in the software does not mean that the rules were changed. In FOFF transactions are allowed during the playoffs BUT ONLY IF the player being dropped is listed as out. FOFF does not have IR ... so said player has to be CUT. The software doesn't allow me to set this up. That means very frequently I have to reverse a transaction that an owner has made because they "forgot" the rule and their player was not listed as OUT. driveby still has not answered how his waiver process has worked all year. If waivers are process each week and the FCFS until some dead line then it seems to me as if this window defines WHEN a week starts and ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 driveby still has not answered how his waiver process has worked all year. Waivers are processed Thursday mornings. They ran yesterday and this morning the commish reversed the pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 This just in ... commissioners are human ... they sometimes make mistakes. The fact that the commissioner may have mistakenly set up the deadline incorrectly in the software does not mean that the rules were changed. In FOFF transactions are allowed during the playoffs BUT ONLY IF the player being dropped is listed as out. FOFF does not have IR ... so said player has to be CUT. The software doesn't allow me to set this up. That means very frequently I have to reverse a transaction that an owner has made because they "forgot" the rule and their player was not listed as OUT. driveby still has not answered how his waiver process has worked all year. If waivers are process each week and the FCFS until some dead line then it seems to me as if this window defines WHEN a week starts and ends. When you gather all of the evidence: 1) The software/site wasn't setup properly to disallow waivers for the correct date. 2) The rules do not appear to be written without some level of potential misinterpretation. 3) Clarification of these rules was not established prior to the waiver process for this week. It seems to me that even if the commish made a mistake with calendar setup, because the rules are ambiguous regarding the exact moment in time when the calendar should have reflected the waiver process to be shut off for the remainder of the season, the right thing to do would be to allow the waiver pickups for this week, then fix the rule so this situation never happens again. If there was precedent (i.e. - if waivers had been shut off after kickoff of week 13 games) in prior seasons of this league, then I say go with the precedent. But it doesn't sound like that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 When you gather all of the evidence: 1) The software/site wasn't setup properly to disallow waivers for the correct date. 2) The rules do not appear to be written without some level of potential misinterpretation. 3) Clarification of these rules was not established prior to the waiver process for this week. It seems to me that even if the commish made a mistake with calendar setup, because the rules are ambiguous regarding the exact moment in time when the calendar should have reflected the waiver process to be shut off for the remainder of the season, the right thing to do would be to allow the waiver pickups for this week, then fix the rule so this situation never happens again. If there was precedent (i.e. - if waivers had been shut off after kickoff of week 13 games) in prior seasons of this league, then I say go with the precedent. But it doesn't sound like that is the case. quote from the commish on the message board As in past years...this rule is in effecct. Don't remember, so maybe it was? I don't know why I'm complaining though, I may get to start Joe Jurevicius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 quote from the commish on the message boardDon't remember, so maybe it was? I don't know why I'm complaining though, I may get to start Joe Jurevicius. Well, then the precedent should trump any rule ambiguity, right? Sounds like it was just an oversight that allowed these pickups. Regardless, you should probably make it a point to have a written rule in place just to clarify for everyone for future purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) Waivers are processed Thursday mornings. They ran yesterday and this morning the commish reversed the pickups. So ... if I understand Tuesday - Thursday you enter your waiver requests FOR THE COMING week Thursday morning waivers are processed FOR THE COMING week FCFS may or may not occur after that When you have a kicker off in week 5 ... do you pick up the replacement kicker for week 5 the Thursday BEFORE the first week 5 game ... or the Thursday AFTER the week 5 game? Here is how I see your schedule Thursday Sept 6 waivers ran for the first time for week 1 of the regular season ... either that or you had no week 1 waivers Thursday Sept 13 waivers ran for week 2 of the regular season Thursday Sept 20 waivers ran for week 3 of the regular season Thursday Sept 27 waivers ran for week 4 of the regular season Thursday Oct 4 waivers ran for week 5 of the regular season Thursday Oct 11 waivers ran for week 6 of the regular season Thursday Oct 18 waiver ran for week 7 of the regular season Thursday Oct 25 waivers ran for week 8 of the regular season Thursday Nov 1 waivers ran for week 9 of the regular season Thursday Nov 8 waivers ran for week 10 of the regular season Thursday Nov 15 waivers ran for week 11 of the regular season Thursday Nov 22 waivers ran for week 12 of the regular season Thursday Nov 29 waivers ran for week 13 of the regular season Each week players were acquired on Thursday that could be started in the coming week. That means your waiver window PRECEEDS the NFL week. I really do not see how it could be intrepreted otherwise even with unclear rules. Asked another way - If I started Peyton Manning in week 13 and attempted to cut him this week to acquire somebody else ... knowing that he would not be available to anybody else by rule ... do his points still count for week 13? Seems to me if the waivers worked the way you are claiming then any player cut between Tuesday and Thursday of this week CAN NOT HAVE BEEN STARTED the previous NFL week. Edited December 6, 2007 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I really do not see how it could be intrepreted otherwise even with unclear rules. Leaving the regular season and entering the FFL playoffs might be handled differently than typical week by week activity. It's sort of a moot point in this thread with the precedent already there, but the question comes down to semantics for what we call that space between the end of the last game in one week and the beginning of the first game of the following week. It doesn't have to follow the NFL's semantics. I've been in leagues which allow for one last set of roster moves during that space between the end of the last NFL game in week 13 and the beginning of the first NFL game in week 14 in case you had any players get injured during week 13 games. I do not recall there being anything more specific in the rules other than the generic "waivers are not allowed once the playoffs start". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Leaving the regular season and entering the FFL playoffs might be handled differently than typical week by week activity. It's sort of a moot point in this thread with the precedent already there, but the question comes down to semantics for what we call that space between the end of the last game in one week and the beginning of the first game of the following week. It doesn't have to follow the NFL's semantics. I've been in leagues which allow for one last set of roster moves during that space between the end of the last NFL game in week 13 and the beginning of the first NFL game in week 14 in case you had any players get injured during week 13 games. I do not recall there being anything more specific in the rules other than the generic "waivers are not allowed once the playoffs start". So ... what about players cut this week and their scores in week 13? You get to keep the week 13 score AND cut him for week 13 waivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABearWithFurniture Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Week 13 was over with the end of the MNF game, your commish is correct. Any FA acquisitions made afterwards would be considered week 14... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 During the regular season when are you normally allow to make waiver moves? I suspect that waivers start sometime after the conclusion of the Monday night game and conclude with the kickoff of one of that week's games. I also presume that an players acquired in the waiver window can be started in the upcoming games. So if your waiver window is Tuesday noon to Sunday noon ... and any player acquired in between Tuesday noon and Sunday noon can be inserted into your starting lineup for that week then this means your waiver window PRECEEDS the NFL week; i.e. week 13 waivers occur before week 13. Players acquired NOW can not be inserted into your WEEK 13 lineup ... we are in WEEK 14 now. The NFL considers it the same ... the injury report released this week will be for WEEK 14 and not for WEEK 13. well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Why is it so hard for people to play with integrity and test their skills, without having to resort to unfair play to gain an advantage. Im seeing this in one of my leagues as well. Just sucks to have this kind of person involved in what is suppose to be a fun hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 I have a few questions. 1 - How long has the league been around? 2 - How long have you been in it? 3 - Have you ever been able to process waivers between the end of week 13's games and the start of week 14's games? If you answered yes to #3 then you would have an argument for the picks being allowed. If you answered no to #3 then you already know the moves were not allowed and you need to quit whining about it now and start worrying about winning a playoff game. And everyone who said you need a more clearly defined rule is dead right. The biggest problem in most leagues is that the rules are too general and therefore leave to much room for wiggle by the owners. I think our league rules have grown to 9 or 10 pages over the years. And we never have aruments like this and everyone always has fun every year, which is what FF is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 What was the resolution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 What was the resolution? Wouldn't budge. There will be quite a few openings in this league next year from what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Wouldn't budge. There will be quite a few openings in this league next year from what I hear. I think the commish made the right call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 I think the commish made the right call. Maybe, but the reasoning was bogus. "To keep the non-playoff teams from dumping all their good players and the playoff teams scooping them up." This is NOT a keeper league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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