isleseeya Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I said I would never visit this site again, but I am addicted to it. I as a Pats fan really don't care if people consider the pats the greatest team of all time. I am glad that they have the opportunity to be the greatest team this season. They beat all but one AFC playoff team and beat one of them twice. They beat two NCF playoff teams and already beat the Superbowl team once. If they win the superbowl they had a great year. you told most ( ok some ) of the huddlers to go to hell and that you would never ever post again or join huddle ... but then again no skin off my nose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) i hear you and you are probably right ...but was speaking stastically only as many of the Pats passing TD 's came in garbage time and on 4th down in garbage time of game they were blowing out the opponent ( an opoonent that gave up already ) Really? Brady was 5-7 for 21 yards and 1 td on 4th down this season. Good try though Edited January 28, 2008 by Bring Back Pat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Really? Brady was 5-7 for 21 yards and 1 td on 4th down this season. Good try though Thank you for showing the entire class the art of cherry picking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Really? Brady was 5-7 for 21 yards and 1 td on 4th down this season. Good try though How many of those led to TDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 again , Pats defense was nowhere near as good as steel curtain or 85 bears or 2001 ravens the pats passing offense is the best of all time , no denying it but they had no running game for almost the whole season ( yes i know that they did not need to run , etc , blah , blah ) but the fact they were so one dimensional offensively is in fact a knock on them i am more impressed with balanced teams who could kill you with pass and run rather than one that throws 50 x a game if the pats win the SB then many valid arguments can be made that they are the greatest all time but you will get good arguments back my biggest criticism is their defense was nowhere near as dominant as many past SB winners and their offense ridiculously one dimensional The argument that the Pats aren't balanced on offense, or that it is even a knock on their team, doesn't hold water. They throw the ball as much as they do because the team they are playing doesn't stop them. And they have proven that they can run the ball pretty well with Maroney (primarily) when they need to, so if you want to blame anyone for the fact that the Pats are not a balanced team, blame the teams that can't stop them. BTW, Sammy Morris had a couple of 100 yard games in the early part of the season if I remember correctly. And no, I'm not a Pats fan. I'm just calling it like I see it... In general, if something is working, why would you stop doing it? In fact, I would counter argue that it's the perception by NFL coaches that you need a balanced attack that loses teams NFL games every season. We've all seen predictable, conservative play calling by NFL coaches that has cost them the game because they "played not to lose", so if throwing the ball 50+ times a game is a problem, why hasn't anyone beaten the Pats? On the other hand, the Pat defense is obviously not as dominant as the Ravens of 2000, Bears of 1985, etc. so I somewhat agree with your biggest criticism (except the whole "their offense is ridiculously one-dimensional" argument of course). But their defense numbers are respectable and better than some SB winners in years past. Most importantly, they've made plays when they've needed to in order for the team to win games. I don't care at all about debating the "greatest team of all time" because it's an impossible debate. But once the Super Bowl has concluded, if New England is the winner, it is impossible to argue that they didn't have the most successful season in NFL history (undefeated reg. season - particularly given their strength of schedule, set numerous NFL records, won SB, etc.). It all depends on what criteria you use to define "greatest team". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 How many of those led to TDs? Well, seeing as 1 went for a td, the most could be 4. I don't remember every conversion, or have that handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Really? Brady was 5-7 for 21 yards and 1 td on 4th down this season. Good try though alot of yards and i am sure TD's came in garbage time of the 4th quarter ... please prove me wrong ..pretty please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 They beat the Colts when the Colts were 7-0, and the Colts were a 14-2 team had they cared about the last game against the Titans.The Cowboys were undefeated when the Pats beat them, and were 13-1 before Wade gave them the rest of the year off. They won both those games on the road. This is the NFL of the 2000's, fire up the VCR if you want to watch LT, Theisman and Rice. Sweetheart..We are talking about ranking them against the greatest teams of all time ..Wouldnt you think it is relevant to mention great players of the era you are comparing them to ? The 7-0 Colts that they beat were missing a few key players no ? Regardless I still did say that was a great win. The Dallas win was impressive on paper. Knowing what we know now about the Cowboys..Meh.. So beating the 7-0 defending Super Bowl champs, in their house isn't impressive? The 9ers were 10-6 in 91 and didn't make the playoffs, and were 10-6 in 93 as well. There are just as many, if not more, blind Patriot haters on this board as blind Patriots fans. I am not talking about the 91 or 93 49ers..I am talking about the 92 Cowboys having to deal with the 92 Niners..I also find it peculiar that I am called a hater. I had a great give and take in the same thread with Caveman Nick and we both respected each others opinions although we disagreed with each other and that was that..According to this if I dont say the 07 Pats are the best of all time hands down I am a hater..It doesnt make sense. Arent we here to mix it up about football ? No Hate here. I gave them props about 10 times in this thread..I am not fishing just throwing out a point of view. To a man practically everyone on the site said Dallas was a farce this year and got exposed in the playoffs yet I am supposed to count them as validating the Pats glorious run ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Thank you for showing the entire class the art of cherry picking. So the fact that he said many of the Pats TD's came on fourth down should have just been accepted as true? Sorry for pointing out when somebody is either woefully mis-informed, lieing or just plain wrong. I should have just let the mis-information stand so it could have been accepted as truth, to perpetuate more mis-information. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMF Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 alot of yards and i am sure TD's came in garbage time of the 4th quarter ... please prove me wrong ..pretty please well I could make a point that if it was not for those garbage time TDs and the Pats never taking the foot off the gas they would not have a chance to be 19-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Sweetheart..We are talking about ranking them against the greatest teams of all time ..Wouldnt you think it is relevant to mention great players of the era you are comparing them to ? The 7-0 Colts that they beat were missing a few key players no ? Regardless I still did say that was a great win. The Dallas win was impressive on paper. Knowing what we know now about the Cowboys..Meh..I am not talking about the 91 or 93 49ers..I am talking about the 92 Cowboys having to deal with the 92 Niners..I also find it peculiar that I am called a hater. I had a great give and take in the same thread with Caveman Nick and we both respected each others opinions although we disagreed with each other and that was that..According to this if I dont say the 07 Pats are the best of all time hands down I am a hater..It doesnt make sense. Arent we here to mix it up about football ? No Hate here. I gave them props about 10 times in this thread..I am not fishing just throwing out a point of view. To a man practically everyone on the site said Dallas was a farce this year and got exposed in the playoffs yet I am supposed to count them as validating the Pats glorious run ? I did not necessarily mean that you were a hater, although being the only person I replied too, it was implied as such. My mistake. The point is still valid, however. There ARE as many or more (even if you cannot be counted as one) blind haters as blind homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I did not necessarily mean that you were a hater, although being the only person I replied too, it was implied as such. My mistake. The point is still valid, however. There ARE as many or more (even if you cannot be counted as one) blind haters as blind homers. Fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 alot of yards and i am sure TD's came in garbage time of the 4th quarter ... please prove me wrong ..pretty please So I'm just supposed to pretend the 4th down comment was never made? And btw: 10 tds in the 4th quarter. 6 while winning by 15-21 4 while winning by 22+ And those 10 in the 4th are not all the 10 from leading by 15 or more. I know in weeks 7 Brady threw 2 of those 22+ against the Dolphins in the 2nd quarter, and in week 9 threw 1 in the 2nd and 1 on first posession of the 3rd quarter vs Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) pats went 15/21 on 4th down..... so were able to prolong 15 drives. i am not finding what the league average was for 4th down attempts so do not know what the difference was. Edited January 28, 2008 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Are you saying those statements aren't true? The problem is, he's supposed to be making an argument of why the Pats are not the best team ever, but all I see is a Chargers reporter crying. How does throwing 6 INTs against the Chargers make their team not great? I mean they didn't lose to the Chargers and he threw 6 INTs. What does having HOF on your team matter? If the team works together as a complete unit, and you always win, what's the point of the HOF argument? Also, why does he have to cherry pick old Charger players as those that could go to the HOF? It doesn't matter what they did in the past in a different uniform, it matters what they are doing now for the Patriots. Thing is, they are playing roles and could be shipped off after the season. Merriweather can easily fill Harrison's shoes, and I'm sure they can find a spare part for Seau. Thirdly, saying that the Pats "lucked out" getting Tom Brady because SD didn't take him, how does that strengthen his argument of saying NE isn't the best team ever? It doesn't. They didn't luck out, SD didn't take him, that's not luck, that's poor decision making by SD (although no one knew Brady would be the player he is). He is supposed to make an argument of why the Patriots are not the greatest team ever, but all I see from it is a biased opinion of a disgruntled Charger reporter telling us how the Chargers made the Patriots the team they are today. No I'm not a Pats fan, I root for the God awful 49ers. Edited January 28, 2008 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 For the record I didnt read the article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 So the fact that he said many of the Pats TD's came on fourth down should have just been accepted as true? Sorry for pointing out when somebody is either woefully mis-informed, lieing or just plain wrong. I should have just let the mis-information stand so it could have been accepted as truth, to perpetuate more mis-information. My bad. Nope. That statement was foolhardy on his part regarding 4th down conversions in the 4th quarter. I couldn't help but notice how you conveniently ignored the 4th quarter garbage time TDs, though, which is extremely relevant and is exactly why NE set the records that they did. Just completely blew by that point like it wasn't pertinent or important to the argument at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 This whole "greatest of all time" bit is just meaningless. This isn't even the same game the 70's Steelers, or the 80's 49ers, or even the 90's Cowboys played. You can call the Pats the greatest of all time if they go 19-0, because that is the best record ever. But you just can't compare teams of today to those from the past. It is apples and oranges. And how many Hall of Famers are on this team is pretty much irrelevent as well. If the argument is for the "greatest team" of all time, to me that is an entirely different argument than the greatest assembly of players. The Patriots have raised the bar in the NFL. Right now, they are simply ahead of every other team in the league as far as their head coach, free agent signings, and drafts. Belichick does not target players destined for the Hall of Fame, he targets players that will play a specific role on his team. So the argument that the team isn't filled with future HOF'ers to me is irrelevent in terms of "greatest team ever." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 No it hasn't, it's done the exact opposite. The cap has set the most level playing field in all of sports, so no team SHOULD be able to do what the Patriots have. The fact that they have is down to coaching, attitude, free agent selection and draft expertise. People can whine about this and that all they want. The fact is that every team has the opportunity to be the Patriots but none are. Does having players restructure contracts and other players signing for less to be on a winning team take away from the" parity"? It seems like some teams have adjusted to working around the cap better than others and parity is just an illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 frig ..let the Giants win this Sunday and we can all look back and laugh at this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Nope. That statement was foolhardy on his part regarding 4th down conversions in the 4th quarter. I couldn't help but notice how you conveniently ignored the 4th quarter garbage time TDs, though, which is extremely relevant and is exactly why NE set the records that they did. Just completely blew by that point like it wasn't pertinent or important to the argument at all... See above. I posted the relevant information regarding blowout tds. Do with the facts as you will, but to me a 2nd quarter td pass cannot be considered a 'garbage time' td, even if the score was 28-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 See above. I posted the relevant information regarding blowout tds. Do with the facts as you will, but to me a 2nd quarter td pass cannot be considered a 'garbage time' td, even if the score was 28-0. How about a 45 yd passing TD to Moss when up 31-7 at the time with 10:28 to go in the game vs BUF in week 3? How about a 14 yd TD pass to Moss when up 27-13 at the time with 3:24 to go in the game vs CIN in week 4? How about a 16 yd TD pass to Welker when up 42-21 at the time with 8:18 to go in the game vs MIA in week 7? How about a 2 yd TD pass to Welker when up 38-0 at the time with 9:09 to go in the game vs WAS in week 8? The only one that might even be slightly arguable would be the TD vs CIN given their O, but running plays leading to a FG at worse would have put NE up by 3 scores with less than 3 minutes to go in the game. Those are garbage time TDs (as well as the passing yds in the drives that lead to the TDs), my friend, whether you want to admit it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I hate the Pats with a passion, but if they win Sunday, I'd have to say that they are definitely, and I mean no question whatsoever, the greatest single season team ever. And that hurts to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I hate the Pats with a passion, but if they win Sunday, I'd have to say that they are definitely, and I mean no question whatsoever, the greatest single season team ever. Agreed. It does make them a great team - I'd argue that they are a great team regardless of the outcome of the SB - but it doesn't make them the greatest team ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 @ article = truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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