Elimate People's Carbon Footprint...

[McBoog]

This is just the consequences of over-reacting in the short term to a long term dilema. Increased ethanol use/demand as a bio fuel has caused bio-damage to our oceans (previous thread), raised food costs and is not a long-term solution. Not to mention the subsidized crop is not as efficient as it should be to warrant all the hype. Maybe sugar cane is a better bio-alternative, but where are you going to grow it all? Corn is a much better food crop than fuel crop, but it is yet another example of how an emerging lobby has wiggled its way into a political power.

 

Global warming rage lets global hunger grow

 

The world intelligentsia has been asleep at the wheel. While we rage over global warming, global hunger has swept in under the radar screen.

 

Look at both sides of debate

 

Big "thumbs up" for a serving of freedom fiies?

[detlef]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

Edited April 15, 2008 by detlef

[The Irish Doggy]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

 

 

Quiet you, its all the environmental lobby's fault.

[Kid Cid]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

I would label the herd mentailty of people to be scared of their own shadow just as culpable. People are just reacting to their fears without actually researching themselves to find out the extent of the problem or whether biofuels are a viable alternative to fossil fuels.

[Perchoutofwater]

Who cares if a few 3rd world countries have riots and people die, we might be saving our great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren from what we might be doing to the environment. All kidding aside, I'm all for a cleaner greener life, but before we start with the knee jerk reactions to speculation, we need to look at all the consequences. Getting rid of the incandescent bulb when CFL's are the only cost effective alternative for the majority of the people without thinking ahead to how we are going to dispose of them was stupid. Starving people in the name of clean air is stupid as well. We need to continue to look for better ways to do things, but we don't need to be dictated to how to do things, especially when we don't know the consequences.

[TimC]

Who cares if a few 3rd world countries have riots and people die

 

We could always enslave them and make them better off than they were.

[dmarc117]

We could always enslave them and make them better off than they were.

 

 

stick em in the corn fields!!

[Perchoutofwater]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

 

If we were that concerned with being the middle east's bitch we would have opened anwar a long time ago, we'd also be drilling of the coast of Florida like Cuba is doing. I'm all for an alternative fuel, but we need to think of the consequences before implementing it on a large scale, and particularly before the government starts mandating it.

[detlef]

I would label the herd mentailty of people to be scared of their own shadow just as culpable. People are just reacting to their fears without actually researching themselves to find out the extent of the problem or whether biofuels are a viable alternative to fossil fuels.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as irritated by reactionary BS as the next guy. None the less, it seems very disingenuous to put blame where it doesn't exist. In my circles, the only car-related solution to global warming is driving them less or driving smaller, more efficient ones. The type of fuel used never comes up. Just less of it.

 

Perhaps that is why I'm often puzzled by the detractors. The "knee-jerk" reactions I hear proposed are nearly always about consumption and I just can't seem to find much fault in simply consuming less energy. You can see why, then, that it appears to me that anyone fighting this movement is simply trying to rationalize their choice to continue to waste energy.

 

If people are starving because of increased bio-fuel, that sucks, but I just don't see why that needs to be dropped in the laps of those telling everyone to use less energy.

[detlef]

If we were that concerned with being the middle east's bitch we would have opened anwar a long time ago, we'd also be drilling of the coast of Florida like Cuba is doing. I'm all for an alternative fuel, but we need to think of the consequences before implementing it on a large scale, and particularly before the government starts mandating it.

Listen, if you guys want to open up the debate on ANWAR vs alternative fuel, that's fine. Just don't lump that in with global warming because they're two entirely different issues.

[Perchoutofwater]

If people are starving because of increased bio-fuel, that sucks, but I just don't see why that needs to be dropped in the laps of those telling everyone to use less energy.

 

So you don't think that the pressure the government was getting from Willie Nelson and the environmental lobby cause them to enact something without thinking through the consequences? We all need to try to use less, and to look for alternatives, but we need to be prudent in our choices, and study their impacts prior to employing them. Thats all I'm saying.

[McBoog]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

 

Dude! Yes! I agree completely. It is all a piece of the overall puzzle. I don't know about "much more", especially in this case were it is not just 'we". This (our environmental impact) is not a US problem alone and I believe that we as a country need to move away from petroleum dependency ASAP. We (US) need to do what we can, but the major players in this game right now are China, India and other emerging economies. We could go 100% green and the overall effect in ten years will be ZERO if the emerging economies don't play along. The problem is that these issues are being delt with individually, where in reality, they are part of an overall dilema and need to be evaluated as such. How does what we do here effect what we do there, when and for how long? Consequence management!

 

Biofuels were initially introduced to reduce emissions well before the "hysteria" of Climal Warnging. Just trying to get rid of the smog if you will. The focus on them has increased exponentially since the hysteria has begun. At best, they are a temporary and inefficient gap filler until we come up with better, long-term answers. Because of the hysteria, the demand for Ethanol has increased exponentially so that all the Dr. Feelgoods out there can say, "See, we are doing something now!" What we are doing is raising world food cost and creating an even greater threat to all of mankind as a whole, if you care (bringing me back to Darwinism and our ultimate survival as a species if at all).

 

I am just fed up with the short-sighted, knee jerk, reactionary application of band-aid remedies to compound fractures! Pretending to do something now that will have little to no effect on the future is just an exercise in auto eroticism.

[bushwacked]

Paranoia will destroy ya.

[Perchoutofwater]

Paranoia will destroy ya.

 

You should know.

[detlef]

Dude! Yes! I agree completely. It is all a piece of the overall puzzle. I don't know about "much more", especially in this case were it is not just 'we". This (our environmental impact) is not a US problem alone and I believe that we as a country need to move away from petroleum dependency ASAP. We (US) need to do what we can, but the major players in this game right now are China, India and other emerging economies. We could go 100% green and the overall effect in ten years will be ZERO if the emerging economies don't play along. The problem is that these issues are being delt with individually, where in reality, they are part of an overall dilema and need to be evaluated as such. How does what we do here effect what we do there, when and for how long? Consequence management!

 

Biofuels were initially introduced to reduce emissions well before the "hysteria" of Climal Warnging. Just trying to get rid of the smog if you will. The focus on them has increased exponentially since the hysteria has begun. At best, they are a temporary and inefficient gap filler until we come up with better, long-term answers. Because of the hysteria, the demand for Ethanol has increased exponentially so that all the Dr. Feelgoods out there can say, "See, we are doing something now!" What we are doing is raising world food cost and creating an even greater threat to all of mankind as a whole, if you care (bringing me back to Darwinism and our ultimate survival as a species if at all).

 

I am just fed up with the short-sighted, knee jerk, reactionary application of band-aid remedies to compound fractures! Pretending to do something now that will have little to no effect on the future is just an exercise in auto eroticism.

OK, now you're waffling big time. Your initial rant referenced the fact that the world has taken it's eye off the starvation ball in an effort to curb environmental issues. Now, you're complaining that unless the world as a whole acts together on this, there's no point in trying from our end. So which is it?

 

You guys don't need to convince me that we have a horrible habit of jumping in before we know what's going on. As I mentioned in the last thread about this and will again mention here. Anyone who was behind Dubya's massive tax cuts that were supposed to generate a ton of jobs (and didn't come close to meeting the goals) or his rationale for going into Iraq or massive miscalculation for how easy it would be, need to quit pointing the finger at anyone who's promoting knee-jerk half thought out plans here.

 

As for me, I am content knowing that the extent to which I have become more green has been basically to consume less energy and water. I'm waiting for someone to point out how this is bad.

[bushwacked]

You should know.

 

Bushwacked knows common sense, rationale thinking, and sound science. I don't feel the need to be a cookoo-driven squeaky wheel making posts every other day.

[Azazello1313]

Dude, you keep blaming global warming hysteria on the movement towards biofuel but doesn't the shrinking amount of fossil fuels as well as the rather unsavory notion of being the Middle East's bitch have much more to do with that trend?

 

the biolfuel fad has a LOT to do with the global warming hubub. it has other elements behind it as well -- the mideast dependency thing, the "support american farmers" thing -- but the primary push has to do with it being cleaner burning, "carbon neutral", etc.

[detlef]

the biolfuel fad has a LOT to do with the global warming hubub. it has other elements behind it as well -- the mideast dependency thing, the "support american farmers" thing -- but the primary push has to do with it being cleaner burning, "carbon neutral", etc.

Well I'm just going to have to take your guys word for it. I live in a pretty liberal area rife with hippies and the extent to which people are jumping all over that in these parts is reclaiming vegetable oil from restaurants and converting it into fuel. I understand that is not likely a global solution but that's what the real hardcore greenies are doing.

 

So, much like I'm not seeing the onslaught of propaganda you guys continue to say is out there, I'm just not seeing this connection. Again, what do I know, I've only lived in Berkeley, Santa Cruz, and around Chapel Hill for most of my life, perhaps I've been more insulated from these liberal whack jobs than you guys are.

[Randall]

This is just the consequences of over-reacting in the short term to a long term dilema.

 

 

I agree. Don't over react, fid real science and act. Trouble is we have an adminsitration that has regularly re-written scientist's reports by lobbyists. They are now flooding the news wires with as much counter intelligence as they can.

 

It's much like how defense attorneys raise doubt by flooding the courtroom with anyone they can find to dispute real science.

 

I don't want to jump into this but something needs to be done and we are running out of time.

[Azazello1313]

So, much like I'm not seeing the onslaught of propaganda you guys continue to say is out there, I'm just not seeing this connection. Again, what do I know, I've only lived in Berkeley, Santa Cruz, and around Chapel Hill for most of my life, perhaps I've been more insulated from these liberal whack jobs than you guys are.

 

either that or you're just being obtuse. google "benefits of biofuel" and tell me how many of the links DON'T talk about the environment, carbon footprint, greenhouse gases, etc.

[H8tank]

the shrinking amount of fossil fuels

 

You should really be required to be informed before posting in threads like this.

[McBoog]

OK, now you're waffling big time. Your initial rant referenced the fact that the world has taken it's eye off the starvation ball in an effort to curb environmental issues. Now, you're complaining that unless the world as a whole acts together on this, there's no point in trying from our end. So which is it?...

 

If the bulb on the porch blows out every time it rains, do you just keep replacing the bulb? Maybe it would be a good idea to look a little further to make sure the wiring is OK so that you don't burn your house down. That is a band-aid remedy v. a big picture approach to the problem.

 

I am not waffling. It/they/we have taken the collective eye off of the global issue of action and reaction in favor of Climal Warnging hysteria. I don't care what the other countries do or don't do. We either die off or not. I am doing my best to be as reasonably "green" in my tiny corner of the world. I "feel" I am doing what I can within my realm of influence. I can't afford to incorporate all of the technologies I would like to, but maybe their prices will come down someday. Sure I would buy a Hybrid, but short term, I can't afford the extra money up front even though the savings long term may benefit me. Clearly it would be even worse if we do nothing because that adds to the overall problem. My point is that independent of what WE do, THEY will do what they want. If we can keep our corner of the world as clean as possible, we will ultimately benefit from that. I am not convinced my efforts are helping climate, but I do know they benefit general cleanliness and health in my small realm of influence.

 

In the last thread about CFLs I did a fake rant to illustrate just one of the ways we can/could over-react. There is a technology, if handled properly, that has many benefits. If not handled properly, I outlined some of the real ramifications. I know I don't want my next door neighbor using CFLs 'cause they recycle NOTHING. It all goes in one can. The Government mandating that they use these is mandating free mercury being pushed into our environment, at least on that mini-scale. Multiply that by millions of households and you have a problem.

 

The point of this was just to show that all of these issues are tied together and have to be approached as one large issue. What do we want to have happen and what is going to happen? Corn prices going up hurts my family in Mexico. They struggle just like I do, pay check to paycheck, but they have felt the higher food costs there much more than we have here.

[detlef]

You should really be required to be informed before posting in threads like this.

There might be a lot of it out there, there might not. But one thing for certain is that it is not infinite and we are using it. So, considering that there's a finite amount and it is being depleted, it is by definition, shrinking. That's not a very hard concept to grasp.

[AtomicCEO]

This is gay.

 

Condemning the environmental movement because of the shortcomings of thanol is retarded.

 

Ask anyone who actually knows about the environment and they will tell you that ethanol is not the solution. It's just the one that's the easiest to implement for car manufacturers and gasoline resellers. It's the fake corporate solution to the problem that won't work in the long term. I've said that before.

 

McBoog constantly putting forward stupid ideas and attributing them to the people he really wants you to dislike is getting really tiresome.

 

What's overreactive misdirected energy? This thread. Not actual concern for the environment.

[SheikYerbuti]

What's overreactive misdirected energy? This thread.

 

WHAT THE F**K DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? WANNA SAY THAT TO MY FACE??????!!1111!!