Caveman_Nick Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 interesting....link please A link to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Without reading anyone else's responses.... There are many different circumstances under which people can be arrested. An arrest is proof of nothing other than being in a circumstance under which a police officer makes a judgement (good or bad) to arrest you. You are proven guilty of nothing at that point and there is no requirement that a person commit a crime for an arrest to have taken place. One could not practically exist. That is no better criteria for keeping a DNA database than just keeping one of everyone that is born. then i'm assuming you are against fingerprints as well? getting the dna starts the evidence trail that may help to release or convict the individual. you do understand that cops need to gather evidence, right? gathering it after a conviction is kind of after the fact. then, retaining it over time builds a database of info that could help cops for future crimes, just like the fingerprint database. this is a no-brainer to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 remember....dna proves both guilt and innocence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Very few innocent people are arrested and even fewer convicted. Where there is smoke there is fire. Do we have stats on what percentage of people who are arrested are actually convicted or enter a plea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 What is the big deal if "the man" has my DNA? Since I don't intend to do anything where my DNA might be used against me I believe if the government had everybody's DNA it might help them solve crimes in a more expediant manner. In the same vein I believe a citizen card with a scanned finger print is a good thing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 (edited) then i'm assuming you are against fingerprints as well? getting the dna starts the evidence trail that may help to release or convict the individual. you do understand that cops need to gather evidence, right? gathering it after a conviction is kind of after the fact. then, retaining it over time builds a database of info that could help cops for future crimes, just like the fingerprint database. this is a no-brainer to me. You know....I am not a big fan of fingerprinting someone just because some officer decided to arrest them. I do understand the need to compare fingerprints in the case of a criminal investigation, so I don't complain about it, but be somewhere at the wrong time or catch an officer at the wrong moment and there you go being marked like a criminal. In Massachusetts, an arrest alone can be grounds for a police chief to deny you a LTC. does this guy deserve to be fingerprinted or have his DNA in a criminal database? I am not talking about the officer BTW, who I think does deserve that. Edited May 16, 2008 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 What is the big deal if "the man" has my DNA? Since I don't intend to do anything where my DNA might be used against me I believe if the government had everybody's DNA it might help them solve crimes in a more expediant manner.In the same vein I believe a citizen card with a scanned finger print is a good thing too. This goes to my first post... how expediant can it be if they were to have millions of DNA to examine and a VERY limited amount of people to actually do the DNA analysis. Right now I'm under the impression that it is not like on C.S.I. (the TV show) where they run back to the lab and get the results in hours. Maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me. McBoog, you might know. We have also seen the scrutiny, as with the O.J. case, on the collection and processing of DNA samples that can come under fire...now picture this with any case that would come up after putting this law into place. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 This goes to my first post... how expediant can it be if they were to have millions of DNA to examine and a VERY limited amount of people to actually do the DNA analysis. Right now I'm under the impression that it is not like on C.S.I. (the TV show) where they run back to the lab and get the results in hours. Maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me. McBoog, you might know. We have also seen the scrutiny, as with the O.J. case, on the collection and processing of DNA samples that can come under fire...now picture this with any case that would come up after putting this law into place. Just a thought. You think an analyst is comparing DNA samples visually ... or do you imagine there is some computer programming involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 The Fed loves it's sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 does this guy deserve to be fingerprinted or have his DNA in a criminal database? I am not talking about the officer BTW, who I think does deserve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 a fingerprint, a strand of hair....not a real big difference as far as I'm concerned. I would think the only people that would have a problem with this idea would be the guilty or those planning a crime. I certainly would be happy to give the govt my DNA, so I could be be cleared of any crime for which I might be accused. DNA can convict , as well as prove someone's innoncense. if a woman is raped, and they can match the DNA taken from he with DNA in their database, and thus make an arrest and prove the perps guilt...isn't that a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 You think an analyst is comparing DNA samples visually ... or do you imagine there is some computer programming involved? I admit I don't know much about the answer to my question, hence I asked for others that might have more knowledge to correct me if I am wrong. I have just seen and heard cases where DNA samples have taken years to come back before they were able to use it to convict. One such occurance was in a serial rapist/killer in the Toronto suburbs where they received DNA but the guys was free to go and wound up committing several more crimes until they got the evidence back. Please inform me if you know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 The Fed loves it's sheep. says chicken little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 JMO, take it for everyone or take it for people that have actually done something. Arrest is just not the right place to draw the line IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 How is not wanting every movement tracked tantamount to a falling sky? There's a difference between collecting evidence and using it only in an active investigation and having a barcode on your arm so the secret service can keep an eye on you. u replied to a post about dna collection, not barcodes with the 1st sheep comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 But sheep like being penned and accounted for. Makes them feel comfortable. similar to the way losers and lazy degenerates like to held unaccountable for their actions, i suppose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 JMO, take it for everyone or take it for people that have actually done something. Arrest is just not the right place to draw the line IMO I dunno, taking it from everyone would be hugely time consuming, expensive, and extraneous. arrest is when they take your picture, take all your info, fingerprints and now DNA, and file it away in their databases. are you opposed to mugshots, too? the reason they "draw the line" at arrest is really a practical one. if there were some way for the government to nefariously use your mugshot, or your fingerprint, or your genetic fingerprint against you, I suppose I'd share your concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I dunno, taking it from everyone would be hugely time consuming, expensive, and extraneous. arrest is when they take your picture, take all your info, fingerprints and now DNA, and file it away in their databases. are you opposed to mugshots, too? the reason they "draw the line" at arrest is really a practical one. if there were some way for the government to nefariously use your mugshot, or your fingerprint, or your genetic fingerprint against you, I suppose I'd share your concerns. I hate to sound all like a conspiracy theorist, because I am not. I would guess that DNA evidence is much easier to plant at a crime scene than fingerprint evidence is. All you need is someone's hairbrush to plant DNA. Whether that would be cops planting it or criminals planting it to throw off the trail... Either way, I go back to the link I posted. Practical or not, what did that guy do to deserve being put in a criminal DNA database? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I hate to sound all like a conspiracy theorist, because I am not. I would guess that DNA evidence is much easier to plant at a crime scene than fingerprint evidence is. All you need is someone's hairbrush to plant DNA. Whether that would be cops planting it or criminals planting it to throw off the trail... if they're going to plant hair from your brush, how does having your DNA profile in a database help or hinder them from doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 does this guy deserve to be fingerprinted or have his DNA in a criminal database? I am not talking about the officer BTW, who I think does deserve that. deserve? i'm not the person to judge that. that's up to the courts. this guy was arrested, so yes, print him and i say dna him. as far as having your prints or DNA in a criminal database, who cares? you can put mine in there if you like. as far as the driver, technically, he did refuse to give up his license to the officer. if you read the transcript, he said "No". he also got animated when he got out of the car, questioning the officer's actions, so he tased him. is the officer a dick? yes. could he have handled this better from the start? yes. but the driver didn't help himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 as far as the driver, technically, he did refuse to give up his license to the officer. if you read the transcript, he said "No". he also got animated when he got out of the car, questioning the officer's actions, so he tased him. is the officer a dick? yes. could he have handled this better from the start? yes. but the driver didn't help himself. You must have been watching a different film clip to me. The officer was a total dick, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 they arent creating clones of us with this dna. its for identification purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 You must have been watching a different film clip to me. The officer was a total dick, period. the woman told the guy to give the officer his license, backing up the repeated requests from the cop. the guy said "no, this guy's yelling at me ...". right at that point, the officer had the guy get out of the car. once out of the car, the officer told the guy to go to the back of the vehicle. he did not and started questioning the officer's actions, not complying with him, so he tased him to shut down the situation. technically, the officer was following what i would believe to be his training and recommended procedures. i don't think it had to go that far and that the officer was damn quick with his trigger finger, but, again, the guy did not help himself by not complying. he was clearly told what he did wrong and seemed to want to debate it and then got his feelings hurt when the officer raised his voice and repeated his requests. cops deal with a lotta shiat and there can't be too much tolerance for people questioning their actions and i would imagine they don't like getting into extended debates for every encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 The Man decides to cull the population of people with some sort of genetic deficiency. ...imagine what would have happened had Hitler had a DNA database at his fingertips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 ...imagine what would have happened had Hitler had a DNA database at his fingertips? can you tell a jew from his dna? and, uh, we don't have to imagine the bad things that hitler would have done. he did all those bad things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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