darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 So I'm on a 10-person .25/.50 table on Bodog. I'm usually pretty tight on these kinds of tables, because compared to the willy-nilly .10/.25 tables, these guys are sharks. Anyways, I'm playing my normal tight game, and find myself down a few bucks (I think I had like $27 out of the $33 I started with - max is $50, btw). Guy two over to my UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises it up to I think $2.25. A pretty decent raise. One caller ahead of me, I have to call $1.75 to see the flop, being last to act in the BB. I'm sitting with K9d. Now, again, I'm traditionally an extremely tight player. Sometimes too tight. But I called, just to see the flop. I knew that if I missed, I'd get out immediately. Well, the flop hits with two diamonds. I'm one diamond away from an extremely high flush. I check my option here, and original raiser puts out a massive bet, about $5 less than my total stack. So yeah, I re-raised all-in, and the guy called. I was getting too good of odds, at least in my tiny brain. Sure enough, I turned the diamond, giving me the flush and dude got his aces cracked. How much of a donk was I here? Dude blew up, of course. But I've had my aces cracked countless times (in fact, I got aces two hands afterwards) on this site. I see donks win all sorts of coin, so maybe I made the wrong play. Oh well. Dude paid for my dinner tonight and maybe a new pair of shoes. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Ehh, not that bad. You risked all your chips on a semi-bluff. He called probably assuming you were on the flush draw. His aces would usually be a winner while your draw usually loses. His call may actually have been worse than your questionable steal attempt. You lucked out, I wouldn't make a habit of that move though And If I had been him, I probably would have thrown it away. You didn't give him great odds for a call but some people will not lay down pocket aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Ehh, not that bad. You risked all your chips on a semi-bluff. He called probably assuming you were on the flush draw. His aces would usually be a winner while your draw usually loses. His call may actually have been worse than your questionable steal attempt. You lucked out, I wouldn't make a habit of that move though And If I had been him, I probably would have thrown it away. You didn't give him great odds for a call but some people will not lay down pocket aces. Yeah, he had me 62/38. Crap happens. That's poker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think the call and re-raise were both bad plays on your part - but it worked out for you. Like Zooty said, I wouldn't make a habit of it. I can see why the guy would be pissed but to vocalize his anger is just stupid on his part. People make bad plays all the time and win - I always hate the guys that beetch about losing to bad plays - duh, it's poker morans!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Yeah, he had me 62/38. Crap happens. That's poker. Sorry the more I think about the more he's the donkey. Most likely if I'm him, I have you on trips and either 1-making a really stupid bet or 2- pushing the draw off the pot. Either way I'm not calling that much more money for a smallish pot with just aces. Your bet was foolish. His call was stupid. BTW- good for you to hit your draw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sorry the more I think about the more he's the donkey. Most likely if I'm him, I have you on trips and either 1-making a really stupid bet or 2- pushing the draw off the pot. Either way I'm not calling that much more money for a smallish pot with just aces. Your bet was foolish. His call was stupid. BTW- good for you to hit your draw That's what I was thinking. I could have easily tripped up, and the flop had a couple of higher cards (don't recall what they were) so I could have hit 2 pair (assuming I had kept two higher, suited cards like 99% of the donks on Bodog). Which bet was foolish? My re-raise all-in? It was for a mere $5-7 more. I was getting terrific pot odds after his initial bet. Trust me, I know I made a pretty risky/bad play in calling with the K9s, and another somewhat risky play with the draw. Again, that's poker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 When they go apesh!t in the chatbox about what a donkey you are, always type back the following: HEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAWWWW!!! That always gives them an aneurism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 When they go apesh!t in the chatbox about what a donkey you are, always type back the following: HEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAWWWW!!! That always gives them an aneurism. Love doin' that... of course, it's when I'm trying to speak their language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think your opponent did almost everything right, actually. When the flop came with diamonds, he immediately bet a large amount to try to push off anyone on a flush draw so his AA would hold. I am sure he was trying to protect them to a flush. When you re-raised with your stack for just $5 more, he had no option but to call....hell he was still a 60/40 favorite. I think I'd have done almost exactly the same thing. You got lucky with your flop, and lucky again on the turn....like some have said, enjoy the win...and don't make a habit of plays like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think your opponent did almost everything right, actually. When the flop came with diamonds, he immediately bet a large amount to try to push off anyone on a flush draw so his AA would hold. I am sure he was trying to protect them to a flush. When you re-raised with your stack for just $5 more, he had no option but to call....hell he was still a 60/40 favorite. I think I'd have done almost exactly the same thing. You got lucky with your flop, and lucky again on the turn....like some have said, enjoy the win...and don't make a habit of plays like that. Everything you say makes perfect sense, but I had been playing super tight for 30-45 minutes. I could have easily hit trips. It was, in effect, a semi-bluff, given my playing style. I reverted back to my tight-aggressive style for the remaining hands I played and hit a couple more. I hope I run into the guy again... I will most definitely push with the nuts, hoping he thinks I'm pushing a draw. Definitely not a habit of mine, but I thought it was the play to make in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think Zooty misread the post as it was Darin doing the calling and the guy with aces being the aggressor. I don't mind the call with K9 so long as you really can get away from the hand. I would have preferred leading at the pot as a semi bluff, maybe about two thirds the pot. Guy would have pushed and you would be getting about even money on the call if the math in my head is working out. You don't mention the rank of cards on the flop, but assuming all below a king, you could claim you considered your kings outs before you saw his hand and then the math probably does work out to being a right move. The calling of the massive over bet (or, in this case, pushing with the extra $5) is mathematically wrong if the numbers in my head are right, but once you decided to go with it then I agree with the push. He's still a donkey for the chat box explosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 When they go apesh!t in the chatbox about what a donkey you are, always type back the following: HEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAWWWW!!! That always gives them an aneurism. I like telling them, "Shhhh, I'm counting the money." All this at the low limit table!? You should play at the $1/2 \ or $2/4, hell even the $5/10 tables have scads of players who routinely make your play. Enjoy the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sorry the more I think about the more he's the donkey. Most likely if I'm him, I have you on trips and either 1-making a really stupid bet or 2- pushing the draw off the pot. Either way I'm not calling that much more money for a smallish pot with just aces. Your bet was foolish. His call was stupid. BTW- good for you to hit your draw How can the guy with Aces NOT call? After the flop there was $6.75 in the pot. Aces raised $20, D3 raised it to $25 (all in) ... so the pot is sitting at $51.75. It will cost him another $5 to go to the river. I just wonder why the aces didn't simply bet $25 in the first place to put D3 all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think Zooty misread the post as it was Darin doing the calling and the guy with aces being the aggressor. I don't mind the call with K9 so long as you really can get away from the hand. I would have preferred leading at the pot as a semi bluff, maybe about two thirds the pot. Guy would have pushed and you would be getting about even money on the call if the math in my head is working out. You don't mention the rank of cards on the flop, but assuming all below a king, you could claim you considered your kings outs before you saw his hand and then the math probably does work out to being a right move. The calling of the massive over bet (or, in this case, pushing with the extra $5) is mathematically wrong if the numbers in my head are right, but once you decided to go with it then I agree with the push. He's still a donkey for the chat box explosion. The flop was something like 10d, 6c, 2d. And for the record, I didn't have him on aces. Rather, I thought he was holding a PP like tens or jacks. That's what gave me pause... thought he was trying to take it down right there with the somewhat-overbet. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think Grits' numbers look right on to me - so the pot pre-flop was $7, and he made a $20 bet on the flop. You needed to call $20 to win $27, getting just about 1.3 to 1, and your odds against hitting the flush were maybe 2.6 to 1 against, something like that. As Grits points out, your reraise for an extra $5 can hardly be characterized as a semi-bluff, it was an automatic call by the original raiser even if he was on a stone cold bluff - he was being asked to call an extra $5 into a pot that now had close to $50 in it. Your call pre-flop was loose but perhaps defensible, depends in part on how the table was playing, but in cash games you sometimes wanna' play hands like that one because when they hit they tend to hit big. Your call after the flop was a bad call, plain and simple. As swammi points out, the guy with pocket aces played the hand almost perfectly. I'm not a fan at all of complaining at the table and calling other players donkey or fish, and I would not have done so if I were him in this instance - but it is frustrating to play a hand exactly the way you're supposed to and then lose a pot of 100+ big blinds to a guy who played the hand very poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 IMO, if Darin were the aggressor post flop, hand may well play out the same way but it would not be as big of a mistake IMO. By the way.. aces have been killing me lately. THis past weekend, I'm playing in a tourney and have aces. Make a 3.5 BB preflop raise get two callers. Flop comes 973 rainbow. check to me, I bet about 2/3ds the pot. One folder, one caller. Turn is the ace. Opponent checks. I bet half pot and he pushes all in. I happily call. He has pocket 9s for a flopped set. River..... the case 9 and I am a railbird. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) IMO, if Darin were the aggressor post flop, hand may well play out the same way but it would not be as big of a mistake IMO. Agree 100% with this. BC - you pick up Harrington on Hold 'EM - Cash Games yet? I got the two volumes last week and am starting to read through them. I loved the Harrington books on NLHE Tournaments, and this set looks to be just as good. I'm definitely learning stuff already - for instance, the importance in cash games of mixing it up a little bit more than you might in tournament play by raising or calling preflop raises with hands like 97s, or even 45 offsuit. Only occasionally, not as a habit, but Harrington argues that in deep stack poker, which is what ring games typically end up being, the payoff when you hit on a hand like that could be the opponent's entire stack, which more than justifies the cost of seeing flops with those hands...as long as you can get away from them when you don't hit. I'm only about 100 pages into the first of the two-book set, but I've seen enough to recommend them, esp if you liked the tournament books. Edited June 11, 2008 by Easy n Dirty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.a.M Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Darin try having your set of sixes cracked on the 500 buy-in game on the 5-10 game. I had a pair and was in the BB the pot was raised pre-flop so I wanted to see the flop too much money involved to let it go I had to put in another 30 anywas long story short I had a bout 900 of chips on me pot was about 160 before flop. The flop was club club 6 now I check gambling that the pre-flop raiser would make a hefty bet to protect his hand. The raiser takes a stab out of it for 120 obvious overbet with nothing comes back to me I reraise to 220 more this other guy calls between me and the original raiser. I knew who this guy was and I knew he was a real loose crazy no regards to money player. The original raiser folds out because he knows he is beaten. In the back of my mind I was thinking I am either going to really score or this guy is going to kick my chip stacks arse. The next card was blank and I knew this guy was calling me on a draw. So the betting comes back to me I look at this guy and I have history playing with guy so I informed him I know your Asian (I like Asians especially your women) so your going to call me I am all in I three a 500 rack plus a few hundy stacks and I proceeded to show him my set hoping this would deter him from calling me for the possiblility of me picking up a boat. He calls me like a donkey I was pissed but hey thats poker and their are many donkeys out their. Darin I don't think you did anything wrong thats poker. You did get a bit lucky but hey it is what it is. I know understand how Phil Helmuth can get so pissed off because he plays a structured by the rules game and you get a lot of donkeys calling you and getting lucky. I don't know if I was playing a .25/.50 game I would proberly loosen up my play quite a bit but on the 500 table I am tighter than 18 year old girl's arse hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I would proberly loosen up my play quite a bit but on the 500 table I am tighter than 18 year old girl's arse hole. Haven't you been watching Oprah......their arses aren't that tight anymore at 18!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.a.M Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Haven't you been watching Oprah......their arses aren't that tight anymore at 18!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Agree 100% with this. BC - you pick up Harrington on Hold 'EM - Cash Games yet? I got the two volumes last week and am starting to read through them. I loved the Harrington books on NLHE Tournaments, and this set looks to be just as good. I'm definitely learning stuff already - for instance, the importance in cash games of mixing it up a little bit more than you might in tournament play by raising or calling preflop raises with hands like 97s, or even 45 offsuit. Only occasionally, not as a habit, but Harrington argues that in deep stack poker, which is what ring games typically end up being, the payoff when you hit on a hand like that could be the opponent's entire stack, which more than justifies the cost of seeing flops with those hands...as long as you can get away from them when you don't hit. I'm only about 100 pages into the first of the two-book set, but I've seen enough to recommend them, esp if you liked the tournament books. Havent picked them up yet bu they are on my list. Finishing up the Ed Miller/Sunny Mehta Professional No Limit Hold Em Volume One and then going ot read a book by Angel LArgay that I have heard good things about, particular as it applies to the live low limit no limit games, the $1/2 and $2/5 type games. I have heard very good things about the Harrington books. I read the tourney books on my last trip to ireland, and as I just booked a quick trip there in September, may pick them up to read on those flights, if I can stay awake (doin an overnight flight there where I leave Thursday about 9:30 pm which gets me into Ireland at 7:30pm Friday, then I leave Monday afternoon which gets me home Monday afternoon here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.a.M Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Havent picked them up yet bu they are on my list. Finishing up the Ed Miller/Sunny Mehta Professional No Limit Hold Em Volume One and then going ot read a book by Angel LArgay that I have heard good things about, particular as it applies to the live low limit no limit games, the $1/2 and $2/5 type games. I have heard very good things about the Harrington books. I read the tourney books on my last trip to ireland, and as I just booked a quick trip there in September, may pick them up to read on those flights, if I can stay awake (doin an overnight flight there where I leave Thursday about 9:30 pm which gets me into Ireland at 7:30pm Friday, then I leave Monday afternoon which gets me home Monday afternoon here.) I should write a book on getting wasted on Jack and Cokes and go into the poker room at 400AM loosing my roll and almost getting kicked out of the poker room for swearing at the other players and dealers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I should write a book on getting wasted on Jack and Cokes and go into the poker room at 400AM loosing my roll and almost getting kicked out of the poker room for swearing at the other players and dealers can you make sure Robert Downey Jr. plays you in the movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 can you make sure Robert Downey Jr. plays you in the movie? If anyone's gonna play ATaM, it'll be this guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 If anyone's gonna play ATaM, it'll be this guy... i love a nice rack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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