westvirginia Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Well, I wouldn't expect someone who gets his hair cut at supercuts to understand mutual funds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 And the Oppenheimer fund ODMAX, whish I assume is the one Shiz is referring to: looks good over the full life of the funds. pretty much a dead heat over the past 5 years. losing over the last 2 years. there's no question that a managed fund has the potential to kill an index fund in any given year, but it's very hard to beat that index consistently. looking at these 2 funds, ODMAX had a bigger blowout year in 1999 which caused the separation in the overall chart. since that one year, they have been tracking closely. no doubt that this is a well managed fund with great returns, but i still think the index fund is less stressful (my personal preference). i'd rather play select individual stocks (which i do, thank you apple) to go after bigger returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 <snip> Holy crap, I only have a dozen to choose from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piles Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Holy crap, I only have a dozen to choose from! Same here and I think it is an atrocity to have such limited options. My HR department says that they are worried people will get confused if they have too many options so that is why we are limited to 12 or so. I think that is a bunch of BS. I'm sure it has something to do with $$ but not sure what. My wife can invest in any Fidelity or TRowe Price fund. Every year I compare her return to mine and every year she beats me by at least 3% a year. Take that over 30 years and you are looking at a HUGH difference. Complete BS that companies limit their employees like this. I wish something could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piles Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 pretty much a dead heat over the past 5 years. It's not really a dead heat over 5 years. VEIEX is smoking ODMAX at 5 years. If you use google they give you the percent. 247.09% for VEIEX versus 206.03% for ODMAX. That yahoo chart is misleading a bit. VEIEX has outproduced ODMAX by 41.06% over 5 years. So you are looking at over 8% a year. I'd call that pretty significant. Stick with your index fund, it's a great one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Investing in anything is based on others perceptions. I think you may have muck read incorrectly. The mere fact someone will put money into something with hopes of a higher return is nothing more than legalized gambling....built mostly upon perceptions. Kinda. Buying a stock = "hope the company makes incrementally more money than they did before" + "hope the investing public's perception of the company is better tomorrow than today" A big hunk (but not all) of the stuff I do = "care very little what other people think, just that they honor their promises / do what they say they're going to do" (i.e., no fraud) ... but, you're right, to some extent, all activities involving money are akin to legalized gambling ... just each has a different sort of risk (buying a car vs. building a patio ... playing blackjack vs. playing craps ... buying stock in GE vs. drilling an oil well) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You can always invest in the FWmaker family of funds. No fees, but likely no return on investment, and quite possibly a loss of principal. Do you have lenghty applications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 looks good over the full life of the funds. pretty much a dead heat over the past 5 years. losing over the last 2 years. there's no question that a managed fund has the potential to kill an index fund in any given year, but it's very hard to beat that index consistently. looking at these 2 funds, ODMAX had a bigger blowout year in 1999 which caused the separation in the overall chart. since that one year, they have been tracking closely. no doubt that this is a well managed fund with great returns, but i still think the index fund is less stressful (my personal preference). i'd rather play select individual stocks (which i do, thank you apple) to go after bigger returns. You will not hurt yourself with the VEIEX fund...no doubt. I was just trying to stress that sometimes people get too hung up onfees. I am not stressing you are....just making a point. However, I have done very well with ODMAX over the last 10 years.....well...since 2000 anyway....I missed 1999! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) It's not really a dead heat over 5 years. VEIEX is smoking ODMAX at 5 years. If you use google they give you the percent. 247.09% for VEIEX versus 206.03% for ODMAX. That yahoo chart is misleading a bit. VEIEX has outproduced ODMAX by 41.06% over 5 years. So you are looking at over 8% a year. I'd call that pretty significant. Stick with your index fund, it's a great one. Are you comparing that to the B share or the A share.....the B share ODMAX would get wiped.....the A share not so much. EDIT: Just checked the morningstar graph of what a 5 year investment would look like of a hypothetical 10K in ODMAX A share and found it would be over 30K....probably 31000 or just a little more judging by the graph itself. VEIEX is under the 30K mark. So, I doubt that VEIEX could average an 8% greater return each year and then finish behind in raw return when its fees are lower and there is no load? Just saying. But you are correct....there is nothing wrong with VEIEX....there are just better funds out there with the same Beta Edited June 18, 2008 by TheShiznit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yeah FSDAX has been killing me as well. I actually sold out my position in one account I had a couple of weeks ago. ETA: Cap'n hope you are investing in FLVCX. That is a great fund. Wish I had it as an option in my 401k, at least the wifey does. I've been in the following 4 funds for the last couple of years: FSDAX FICDX FCNTX FNORX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Magnolia Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 My 401K has fund options from multiple families. My finance guy who handles my IRA and other accounts (529 for my kids, etc.) is big on American Funds, and I have been pleased with their performance. Down a bit as most have been the last year or so, but much less than most I have heard. I know muck is not fan of stosks, funds etc., as he does not believe in relying on anything that is valued based on others perceptions, but with 401Ks you don't really have much choice to invest outside of the offerings, and generally the company match is well worth the limited options. Financial planners are big on recommending American Funds-they are very reliable/low risk, and pay high commissions, but have fairly high fees attached. If you want a no brainer with low fees and low risk, with good returns, I'd go with the Vanguard Family of funds. We started out with American Funds and now that we are our own financial planners we are now mainly Vanguard with diversifaction within the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piles Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Are you comparing that to the B share or the A share.....the B share ODMAX would get wiped.....the A share not so much. EDIT: Just checked the morningstar graph of what a 5 year investment would look like of a hypothetical 10K in ODMAX A share and found it would be over 30K....probably 31000 or just a little more judging by the graph itself. VEIEX is under the 30K mark. So, I doubt that VEIEX could average an 8% greater return each year and then finish behind in raw return when its fees are lower and there is no load? Just saying. But you are correct....there is nothing wrong with VEIEX....there are just better funds out there with the same Beta Hmmm, maybe Yahoo and Google are wrong. It does look like I am using the A class shares of ODMAX http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ODMAX&...q=l&c=veiex When I plug it into google it does indeed give those numbers I quoted. I attached the link but when I do it only pulls the chart for ODMAX and doesn't give the comparison. But feel free to just add in VEIEX and change it to 5 years and I think you should get what I quoted. But, it's pretty much moot because we both agree they are great funds. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=odmax&hl=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 i'm actually more comfortable with the index fund. i don't have to worry about the fund manager, i don't pay the fees, and as goes the emerging markets, as goes my returns. since i'm pretty confident they are going up, i'm not going to miss out on it. hopping on a hot fund manager and paying higher fees is more risky imo, but to each his own. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShiznit Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Financial planners are big on recommending American Funds-they are very reliable/low risk, and pay high commissions, but have fairly high fees attached. If you want a no brainer with low fees and low risk, with good returns, I'd go with the Vanguard Family of funds. We started out with American Funds and now that we are our own financial planners we are now mainly Vanguard with diversifaction within the family. I usually do not sell anything but managed money therefore.....you can leave whenever you wish....then it is my job to pick funds that will make money....to your satisfaction. But you are right.....there are a ton of planners that just sell American Funds and that is it. They produce good returns though....even with the fees and loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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