DEN TC reports

[Bronco Billy]

RMN link

 

And as they begin practice, they also will have to answer several pending questions, including:

 

Who's the running back?

 

Shanahan said he was more worried about the production overall, about hitting the 5-yards-per-carry mark as a team and that he liked the team's collection of running backs.

 

That's about as cryptic as Shanahan gets, and that's saying something for him. It would also seem to indicate that the RB position is a wide open competition to all comers. If Shanahan has had a healthy starting RB in the past, he's always put that guy's name out front.

 

No word on Marshall's possible suspension. Marshall, his lawyer, and Rod Smith all met with Goodell earlier this week. Taking Rod Smith would indicate that: 1) Marshall needed all the help he could get & then some in front of the commish, and 2) that Smith will continue to be affiliated with the team in some capacity regarding players.

 

1st rounder OT Ryan Clady has not signed yet, but he is staying at the team hotel and Shanahan has already annointed him the starting LT without his even signing a contract. I'd expect he may be signed very quickly, perhaps even by the time the first practice starts this morning.

 

And for those IDPers, the DEN MLB position - a spot that traditionally generates a lot of tackles - appears to be up for grabs, also:

 

RMN link

 

Middle men

 

Niko Koutouvides and Nate Webster will battle it out for the middle linebacker spot during training camp.

 

The Broncos signed Koutouvides with the intention of playing him in the middle of the defense, but Webster has responded with what Shanahan called one of the best offseasons of any player with the team.

 

"Nate's in the best shape that I've ever seen Nate Webster in," Shanahan said. "He made a great commitment in the offseason, he's 100 percent participation, he's healthy. We'll watch them compete."

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: If Webster is the starting MLB, this DEN D is in hugh trouble before the season ever begins. I don't care what kind of shape he's in, he's not a capable starting MLB at the NFL level. Slow reads, slow to the ball, and a complete liability in coverage. If Koutouvides can't beat out Webster, I'd keep a very, very close eye on rookie Spencer Larsen.

 

STs: Matt Prater is the only K on the roster right now. DEN released Garrett Hartley last week, and I'm still trying to figure out why given the way he performed at Oklahoma - which was superbly. Maybe he can't get the proper lift without the tee.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

Adam Schefter has just reported at 6:20 am MST on DEN 850 AM radio that Clady is signed and will practice this morning.

[Bronco Billy]

Bronco RB position is indeed up for grabs

 

All Broncos backs in the running

Competition open for No. 1 ballcarrier

 

By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Friday, July 25, 2008

 

 

People want information from the Broncos running backs coach.

 

"I constantly get that," Turner said as training camp opened Friday. "Whether I'm in the grocery store during quote-unquote 'down time' or if I run to pick up a prescription or something like that. I'll run into someone and it's the usual questions - 'Who's going to be toting it? Who's going to be carrying the ball?'

 

"And everybody has their favorite."

 

Um, so Bobby, just one question: Who is going to be toting it this season for Mike Shanahan's crew?

 

"We don't know yet," he responded.

 

Turner got that message across to his group during Friday's first position meeting. He told them nobody's No. 1 and while there's an opening rotation in place, the top job is open.

 

Selvin Young, last year's leading rusher with 729 yards, opens the summer as the lead back. But given recent history, where virtual unknowns have emerged in August to eventually play a pivotal role in the backfield, it's hardly a lock several weeks down the road.

 

Young himself knows that either Michael Pittman or Andre Hall or rookies Ryan Torain or Anthony Alridge could surpass him if he doesn't play well in the next few weeks. Because last year at this time, he was one of the virtual unknowns just clawing to make the team, just like Mike Bell, the No. 2 rusher on the team in 2006, was the previous training camp.

 

"I was thinking about that (Thursday). And I have the same exact feeling I had last year. No one's told me, 'Hey Selvin, you're the guy that's going to be taking snaps against Oakland,' " Young said, referring to the Sept. 8 regular-season opener. "I still feel like I'm the guy that they're going to tell that to. But once you go to work every day, it doesn't matter if it's Year 1, Year 2 or Year 3, you try to keep the same mind-set. I'm still a rookie in one sense. I haven't done anything well enough to prove anything to anybody. I've still got proving to be done. So my mind-set hasn't changed one bit."

 

The circumstances, though, have changed.

 

The sudden release of Travis Henry last month added a further element of chaos to the proceedings.

 

But Turner isn't altering his approach. He'll coach them all up, watch them perform, then select his favorite in unison with Shanahan and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison.

 

"The thing that you want is to have a successful running game," Shanahan said. "I don't care if it's by committee or one guy who takes the opportunity to be the guy. The main thing I'd like to do is average over 5 yards per carry. We've had some backs here that have averaged over 5 yards per carry. If we can do that by committee, great. If one guy takes the opportunity and wants to get it done and can stay healthy, that's great as well."

 

Young averaged 5.2 yards on 140 attempts last year, which is a key reason why he currently is heading the pack.

 

Rushing numbers drop

 

But by Broncos standards, the running game hasn't been great lately, only good. The club ranked second in the NFL in rushing yards in 2005, but dipped to eighth and ninth the past two years. Denver hasn't had a 1,500-yard rusher since Clinton Portis in 2003. And the four rushers carrying the ball the most over the past four years (including Henry last year) have averaged 4.5, 4.2, 4.4 and 4.1 yards per carry.

 

"I'm upset if we're not No. 1 every year," Turner said. "That's what I come to work for."

 

The wide-open competition at Dove Valley seemed excited at the opportunity at hand.

 

On Friday, Hall followed Young in the rotation, with Pittman, Torain and Alridge next. But that mix will change frequently, depending on performance.

 

"It's definitely motivating," said Pittman, the most experienced player in the bunch with 10 years, 1,316 carries and 5,307 yards under his belt. "Right now, Selvin's slotted No. 1 and he should be. . . . But when coach comes in and says, 'Don't worry about the depth chart that comes out, we're going to play the best guy on the football field,' you know the job's open and if you go out and perform, you'll play."

 

Pittman hasn't played in a zone-blocking scheme as a pro, but it was the core philosophy during his days at Fresno State. And he's been waiting a long time for a chance to use the stretch-and-cut dynamic as a pro.

 

But, he noted, "There's a lot of good backs here."

 

Waiting in the wings

 

Hall might be overlooked in the competition right now, but that could be a positive given the rapid ascension of other young players previously. In his only career start last November, he suffered a severe ankle sprain on his first carry but grinded out 26 attempts for 98 yards and added a 65-yard reception. He was with the Bears in 2006 camp before he was released and picked up by Denver three months later.

 

"When I was in Chicago, they said the job was open and all that and truthfully I don't think the best man got it," Hall said. "But here, I think the best man will get it, just like last year."

 

And if that means Torain or Alridge break through, so be it. The Broncos had individual 1,487-yard and 1,508-yard rookie rushing seasons since 2000. Tatum Bell, Quentin Griffin, Mike Bell and Young averaged 528 yards in their first years in Denver. And Turner admitted he "loved, not liked, loved" what he saw from Torain at Arizona State, before a severe foot injury ended the player's season.

 

"I'm approaching things the way I always do," Turner said. "With an open mind."

 

********************************************

 

The players involved:

 

(Player, heigh, weight, experience)

 

Selvin Young, 5-11, 215, 2.

 

* "He's got great work habits and a great mental approach. And what is not obvious to everyone is what a player does away from the ball. He has an ability to react under pressure and without even thinking about it. . . . We're working on him being the complete and total package - in other words, a receiver, blocker and making big plays. . . . The key thing is keeping him fresh where he can make plays with the ball, because when he's fresh, he can definitely make plays with the ball. . . . I'm expecting him to be a complete back, period, without limitations."

 

Andre Hall, 5-10, 212, 2.

 

* "The key thing there is just maturing another year in the system. He's not a big back, but he's explosive and has an ability to change the game because he has outstanding speed. He's strong. . . . He can run, catch; unfortunately, he got injured last year on the very first play in the Chicago game but was willing to fight and play through pain."

 

Michael Pittman, 6-0, 225, 11.

 

* "Obviously, he's experienced. He's played in big games as a starter, as a backup. He's a complete player. He's played in 'special' situations; in other words, he was used in the passing game and all that. He's mature and very, very footballwise intelligent. . . . And he's tough, with and without the ball."

 

Ryan Torain, 6-1, 225, rookie.

 

* "I loved, not liked, loved what I saw on tape of him. But that's why we all date and marry different people. It's in the eyes of the beholder. So what I see or don't will vary. . . . I'm definitely expecting him to play and perform and be productive. He's a player with ability. (But) I'm not going to say he's a 'sleeper;' I don't look at my guys that way. We coach them all the same."

 

Anthony Alridge, 5-9, 185, rookie.

 

* "He's a kid we signed as a (undrafted) free agent. . . . He has tremendous, outstanding speed and quickness. His deal is putting a move and he's going to blow by you. That's his deal. . . . You will notice him."

 

*************************

 

As of the start of training camp on Friday, the depth chart for RBs was:

 

1) Young

2) Hall

3) Pittman

4) Torain

5) Aldridge

 

The way the RBs were running on Sunday:

 

1) Young

2) Pittman

3) Torain

4) Hall

5) Aldridge

 

Torain fumbled in a red zone situation on Saturday, and on the next play the D swarmed him & literally slammed him to the ground. Looks like they expect something out of him & are sending him a message very early. On Sunday, Young had a nice play on a swing pass. Pittman fumbled against the first team D unit. Torain had a really nifty run when he burst through the line and then cut back against the grain as soon as he hit the second level.

 

***********************************

 

TE Tony Scheffler hasn't missed any work after missing OTAs.

 

**********************************

 

Brandon Marshall has made some nice one handed catches - including a few one handers with his injured hand. On the other hand, he has had some lack-of-concentration drops that ought to be worrisome if they continue.

 

************************************

 

On D, Koutouvides was running at MLB with the first team D Friday & Saturday. On Sunday, Webster was running at MLB with the first team D. Koutouvides is not blowing anyone away with his play and was a disappointment in OTAs. His FA signing is starting to smell like a bust.

 

*****************************

 

RG Chris Kuper broke his right hand on Friday, and will be out 4 to 6 weeks.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[yellowdog]

BB, in your opinion, where should Torain go in rookie drafts, assuming all positions are needed equally?

[Bronco Billy]

BB, in your opinion, where should Torain go in rookie drafts, assuming all positions are needed equally?

 

Torain's the classic high risk/high reward scenario. You don't take guys like that too early unless you are swinging for the fences and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle to win your league. Depends upon what he shows in the preseason games. I think you could get him in the 9th/10th round right now. If he starts showing some ability during the preseason, his stock ought to rise fairly quickly. Even when the DEN running game dropped off the past 2 years, they were still in the top 10 in rushing both years. Now they've made a comittment in the draft to go back to their old smashmouth ways. I see significant improvement along the O-line. If that's the case, that bodes well for Torain if he shows well.

 

I'm very high on him, but that's because he actually ran at the combine less than 6 months after a lis franc injury, because he was looking like a first round/early second round RB at ASU before he got hurt, because his running style matches DEN's scheme so well, and because he's simply a load to tackle. If he would have been drafted by any of 25+ other teams, I would have expected him to get slotted into a short yardage/goal line RB and have his production capped. In DEN, he's a RB like no other on the roster. Young, Hall, & Aldridge are all CoP RBs (if Hall is 201+ lbs, I'll eat my friggin' hat. 212 lbs. ). Pittman is a passing down RB. The only guy currently on the roster capable of taking over the #1 RB role and absorbing 18-20 carries a game all season is Torain. And - and don't underestimate this - both Shanahan & Turner love him.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Bronco Billy

[Belushi]

Torain dynasty owner.

[yellowdog]

Cool, thanks BB.

[Gros Membres!]

This will be Shanny's last year as a coach in DEN. Put it in pen.

[Bronco Billy]

This will be Shanny's last year as a coach in DEN. Put it in pen.

 

 

OK, it's early on Monday. I'll bite.

 

Why is that exactly? Will he be fired or will be quit, maybe to move to the college ranks?

[BeeR]

Anyone who drafts a DEN RB gets what they deserve.

[Randall]

I told Swiss he needed to draft 3 more Broncos RB's .

[Bronco Billy]

From Monday, July 28:

 

Torain was taking snaps with the second team.

 

Cutler & Marshall are hooking up often and are clearly on the same page.

 

Nate Webster is still working with the first team D.

 

OG Montrae Holland still missing full contact practices because he's too fat. They've had him on the sidelines working with Rich Tuten trying to lose about 10 pounds and won't be allowed to practice in full contact drills until he's down to 225.

[Big Score 1]

Despite me ribbing you occasionly BB, your Bronco info is as always, most appreciated.

 

Thanks & keep up the good work!

[Bronco Billy]

Despite me ribbing you occasionly BB, your Bronco info is as always, most appreciated.

 

Thanks & keep up the good work!

 

You mean you can read my posts even though I have you on ignore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Score 1]

You mean you can read my posts even though I have you on ignore?

[Gros Membres!]

Let's set some odds, how about:

 

Fired: 1%

quit: 34%

no change: 65%

 

?

 

 

I'd bump up the fired part - the defense is atrocious, the offense improved slightly in the second half of last year (if you count throwing less INTs as an improvement), and Shanny has done little to nothing on either side of the ball in the offseason (except getting rid of Henry).

 

Maybe Cutler gets it together this year but if he doesn't I could see this being the end of the road for the 3rd string RBs, mediocre linemen from other teams, and cut blocking schemes.

 

Fired: 40%

Quit: 15%

No Change: 45%

 

Maybe put it in pencil...

[Bronco Billy]

I'd bump up the fired part - the defense is atrocious, the offense improved slightly in the second half of last year (if you count throwing less INTs as an improvement), and Shanny has done little to nothing on either side of the ball in the offseason (except getting rid of Henry).

 

Maybe Cutler gets it together this year but if he doesn't I could see this being the end of the road for the 3rd string RBs, mediocre linemen from other teams, and cut blocking schemes.

 

Here's the part of the equation that you probably don't know. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen has taken the position, both privately & publicly, that Shanahan can coach as long as he wants. Bowlen has already stated that Shanahan has been offered the position of "coach for life" in DEN.

 

Then add that his draft from 2 years ago was superb (finally), last year's draft is up in the air & the sophomore D-linemen's play this year will be the proof of that pudding, and that contrary to his normal M.O. that Shanahan has had a superb draft (IMO) this year. Shanahan is clearly going back in the direction where he made his bones in the first place: A superb O anchored by a pound-them-into-the-turf running game and a bend-but-don't-break D. It's still a work in progress given the number of pieces that had to be added to get DEN where it was 10 years ago, but the structure is getting there.

 

Given that, I'd put the odds this way:

 

Fired: -5%

Quit: 15%

No Change: 90%

[Azazello1313]

OG Montrae Holland still missing full contact practices because he's too fat. They've had him on the sidelines working with Rich Tuten trying to lose about 10 pounds and won't be allowed to practice in full contact drills until he's down to 225.

 

what, are they grooming him to play a little free safety on the side?

 

ya know, in general, fatass o-linemen probably ought to think twice before signing with denver.

[Bronco Billy]

what, are they grooming him to play a little free safety on the side?

 

ya know, in general, fatass o-linemen probably ought to think twice before signing with denver.

 

:redfaced:

 

Errr - make that 325...

[Randall]

How does Scheffler look?

[Hat Trick]

From the KC Star:

 

Ex-SM Northwest Star earns praise

Former Shawnee Mission Northwest running back Ryan Torain is making a good early impression in the Denver Broncos' camp.

Torain, who played at Arizona State, slipped in the draft because he missed much of his senior season with a severe foot injury.

 

But the Broncos, always on the lookout for a running back and needing to replace Travis Henry and Tatum Bell, grabbed Torain in the fifth round.

 

“We talked about him in the draft and I thought he was a first-round talent," said Denver coach Mike Shanahan. "He hasn’t disappointed me yet. We’ll get a chance to see if he can hold onto the football, if he can remember his plays when the lights are on.

 

``So far he has worked extremely hard, and he’s impressed most of the coaches.”

[NAUgrad]

Nobody can possibly read the pay slower then Williams did last year. He either read the play and went the wrong direction, or just to days to figure out what the play was. Things are going to get interesting without an upgrade at MLB and it doesn't sound like there is one.

[Skilly]

Nobody can possibly read the pay slower then Williams did last year. He either read the play and went the wrong direction, or just to days to figure out what the play was. Things are going to get interesting without an upgrade at MLB and it doesn't sound like there is one.

 

Well, there already is an upgrade there. DJ is moved back to the outside where he belongs, and Webster or Koukawhatshisname will take over in the middle. If they get better play from the defensive tackles this season, MLB shouldn't be the weakness it was last year, IMO.

[Bronco Billy]

I can safely assure everyone here that if Webster wins the MLB spot that despite Williams' shaky play there last year, he's light years ahead of Webster as a MLB. If Webster wins that spot over Koutouvides, the DEN D is going to get run over all season long, as well as give up a lot of yards to RBs going into the middle short zone in routes. It would also mean Koutouvides would not be a feasible option for being a starting LB anywhere in the league. On the plus side, if Webster does win the spot, it may provide a much earlier opportunity to Spencer Larsen to move into the spot, and he's a sleeper that I'm high on.

 

As far as Foxworth, it's said he's worked his ass off during the offseason and is looking good. He is also a Shanahan favorite. He could very possibly beat out Bly for the starting CB spot. If he does, he's going to have to have changed his technique, because he has always given up massive cushions to cover his shaky coverage skills, which results in WRs getting a ton of receiving yds under him. IMO, he was by far the single player most responsible for the home playoff loss to PIT in the AFC Championship game a couple of years ago when PIT kept converting 3rd and longs repeatedly in front of him.

[Bronco Billy]

From July 29:

 

Here's a massive surprise that I didn't expect, but probably should have: Nate Jackson is playing ahead of Tony Scheffler at TE in two TE sets, and Jackson has also been used in the slot ahead of Scheffler. "Nate is ahead of Tony right now, but it's the beginning of training camp," tight ends coach Pat McPherson said. "And in my mind, we're getting the same amount of protection, run blocks, and routes. They're all in one big group right now." Scheffler's weakness is clearly in his blocking role as a TE, and Shanahan's TEs have to be capable of blocking well. Hell, the WRs have to block well. DEN is going back into it's old smashmouth running game as opposed to trying to spring faster RBs to the edge, so Webster may be a better fit in the overall O scheme and Scheffler may end up being more of a gimmick type TE & ST player unless his blocking improves a bunch.

 

Rookie FB Peyton Hillis has sat out the past 2 days with a tweaked left hammy. He's expected to miss a few more days. His chances of making the team are enhanced by the release of Mike Bell, and it's a pretty poorly kept secret that Shanahan likes the kid as a FB a lot - he fits Shanahan's FB requirements of being strong as an ox, ready to throw himself into anyone to clear a hole, and capable of catching out of the backfield - something FBs get to do as much as RBs when DEN's running game is working properly. It should also be noted that Hillis has taken no snaps at RB, something some people were speculating when DEN drafted him.

 

With Hillis on the sidelines, Michael Pittman has been taking reps at FB with the 2nd team. That is allowing Torain to continue to take snaps with the second team at RB, and makes for an intriguing pairing with Pittman in the backfield.

 

Darrell Jackson had a poor day, fumbling twice on reverses and getting his ass chewed out for missing an assignment. If he's going to go half heartedly at his job, he's going to find himself quickly as the #4 WR on this team. With his ability, he would seem to be in a perfect position to be a great #2 WR opposite Marshall, something he ought to excel at since he'll be getting lesser coverage than he's gotten his entire career.

 

Marlon McCree picked off a pass as the second team O went against the second team D.

 

Koutouvides was reinserted into the #1 MLB role. It's musical chairs there with Webster until Shanahan figures out which is the lesser of two evils at the position - something that says loads about Koutouvides' ability that he's not blowing away Webster and claiming the position as his own for keeps.

 

Dre Bly made a nice play on a pass to Marshall and tipped it away at the last second. Bly is quietly having a very good camp and may be responding to the pressure applied by Foxworth in his bid to take the starting CB role opposite Bailey.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Bronco Billy