Chavez Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 well for the most part i disagree, I can't see this as a play-off team for this year (meaning a current 8-4 record) with Carr running the show for 16 games Probably not. Any other worst QBs in the league you'd care to trot out for your specious example? NYG probably wouldn't be 8-4 with a turd like Carr under center; but with a, say, Jason Campbell or Jeff Garcia they'd probably be right about there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Probably not. Any other worst QBs in the league you'd care to trot out for your specious example? NYG probably wouldn't be 8-4 with a turd like Carr under center; but with a, say, Jason Campbell or Jeff Garcia they'd probably be right about there. he is the MVP of the team, thus the reason why i sugested he should get some consideration for the league award. Since without Eli the Giants arnt where they are this season...that is essentially what the award is for correct, not the super stat stud of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 he is the MVP of the team, thus the reason why i sugested he should get some consideration for the league award. Since without Eli the Giants arnt where they are this season...that is essentially what the award is for correct, not the super stat stud of the year? I've always figured it is for who is most essential to his team's success as opposed to having the "average" player in that position. Brees is carrying the Saints, for example. AD is carrying the Vikes. Eli is NOT carrying the Giants. Not that Eli is playing poorly by any stretch; it isn't his fault the team is relatively loaded. But it makes the MVP case a bit tougher; MVP awards aren't as easy as "best player on the best team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Im still trying to figure out how Eli is an Average QB, the mans a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Im still trying to figure out how Eli is an Average QB, the mans a winner. I didn't say Eli was "average" I said the Giants with an "average" QB are still pretty f'in' good. Ergo, Eli's "value" to the Giants is less than the value of a Brees or a Peterson, who are carrying their teams. Reading is fundamental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 He may not have the massive stats, but you gotta give props to Matt Ryan for what he's doing as a rookie for the Falcons in erasing the Mike Vick era from Atlanta fans' memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 he is the MVP of the team I disagree. I think Jacobs and Tuck are both more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Reading is fundamental. Chavez, why you gotta get all college football forum on me... who cares if you meant to call him average, but when you say... I've always figured it is for who is most essential to his team's success as opposed to having the "average" player in that position. Brees is carrying the Saints, for example. AD is carrying the Vikes. Eli is NOT carrying the Giants. in response to... he is the MVP of the team, thus the reason why i sugested he should get some consideration for the league award. Since without Eli the Giants arnt where they are this season...that is essentially what the award is for correct, not the super stat stud of the year? you called him average. and where is Brees carrying his team, to a last place finish in the south? AD probably deserves to win the award, that we can agree on...he is carrying that team. I think them making the playoffs, which means winning the division will decide that though. Again i never said Eli deserves or should win MVP, just that i think his name belongs in the hat of potential candidates. He may not have the massive stats, but you gotta give props to Matt Ryan for what he's doing as a rookie for the Falcons in erasing the Mike Vick era from Atlanta fans' memories. no doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I disagree. I think Jacobs and Tuck are both more valuable. Well this team has proven that it can win without Jacobs, and you really would want Jacobs to start as oposed to Eli should you have to choose one or the other? Personally id take Ward/bradshaw and Eli any day over Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw and Carr. Tuck would hurt alot yes, but the Giants pash rush comes from everywhere. Even the backups backups are getting sacks in Spags scheme. While it would definately change the face of the defence i think they could get by, which is not the case with Eli on offence imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 add NFC player of the month for Novemer to his resume... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 add NFC player of the month for Novemer to his resume... Over Westbrook? Thats laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 who cares if you meant to call him average, but when you say... in response to... you called him average. Then I did not make myself clear; what I meant was Eli vs average QB is not as essential to the Giants success as, say, Warner vs average QB or AD vs average RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Well this team has proven that it can win without Jacobs, and you really would want Jacobs to start as oposed to Eli should you have to choose one or the other? Personally id take Ward/bradshaw and Eli any day over Jacobs/Ward/Bradshaw and Carr. So, now we're giving out the MVP based on how good the candidate's backup is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Over Westbrook? Thats laughable. Taz, player of the month bud...not week. Then I did not make myself clear; what I meant was Eli vs average QB is not as essential to the Giants success as, say, Warner vs average QB or AD vs average RB. cool,...still dont agree with you So, now we're giving out the MVP based on how good the candidate's backup is? you said Jacobs was more valuable than Eli, so i gave you a simple senario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 McNappy comes on strong over the final 4 games to seal the deal on league MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 you said Jacobs was more valuable than Eli, so i gave you a simple senario But your scenario doesn't substantiate your argument. Your argument leads to the following statement: Adrian Peterson doesn't deserve the MVP because Chester Taylor is a quality starter when Peterson is injured. Just because Chester Taylor is a good backup doesn't mean AD is or is not the MVP. And likewise, just because Jacobs has quality players behind him on the depth chart doesn't change him as a talent. If the Giants had a Matt Cassel type player on the bench, would Eli no longer be an MVP candidate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Taz, player of the month bud...not week. Well that makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 But your scenario doesn't substantiate your argument. Your argument leads to the following statement: Adrian Peterson doesn't deserve the MVP because Chester Taylor is a quality starter when Peterson is injured. Just because Chester Taylor is a good backup doesn't mean AD is or is not the MVP. And likewise, just because Jacobs has quality players behind him on the depth chart doesn't change him as a talent. If the Giants had a Matt Cassel type player on the bench, would Eli no longer be an MVP candidate? how does it not? AP was never a factor in my arguement...you said you think Jacobs is more valuable to the Giants than Eli is. I presented you a senario that i believe shows Eli is clearly more valuable to the Giants than Jacobs is. AP is on pace for 1750 yrds and 12 TDs, thats why he deserves the MVP, I just don't necceasarily agree to giving awards like that to guys who teams can't make the playoffs (which could happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Eli is clearly more valuable to the Giants than Jacobs is. This is true. Eli's transformation from a turnover machine to a play-maker who protects the ball last December is what got the Giants over the hump. The Giants could win a SB with an RBBC of Ward and Bradshaw. They couldn't do it with somebody like Cassel under center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Is it time to bump DeAngelo Williams WAAAAAY up in the MVP discussion? I think it's his to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Is it time to bump DeAngelo Williams WAAAAAY up in the MVP discussion? I think it's his to lose. I don't see the Panthers struggling to get into the playoffs without him, and that significantly undercuts his "most valuable" argument. That said, he certainly deserves strong consideration. In a year without anybody putting up eye-popping offensive numbers, he has a very legitimate shot. A month ago, I thought that it was Warner's to lose. But he's put up mediocre performances in a few big games since and his performance today was nothing short of embarrassing. Among QBs, I'd have to say that Peyton is the front-runner at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I don't see the Panthers struggling to get into the playoffs without him, and that significantly undercuts his "most valuable" argument. That said, he certainly deserves strong consideration. In a year without anybody putting up eye-popping offensive numbers, he has a very legitimate shot. Yeah, the fact that if DeAngelo goes down, the Panthers are stuck trotting out...er, Jonathon freakin' Stewart probably diminishes the perception of his value. Then again, having the able Chester Taylor right behind him doesn't seem to hurt AD any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 How about Brandon Jacobs? Obviously, the Giants are loaded at RB, but he really seems to set the tone for that offense, and the Giants can lay legit claim to "best team in the league." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Gotta go with Peyton at this point. Possibly AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikYerbuti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 How about Brandon Jacobs? Obviously, the Giants are loaded at RB, but he really seems to set the tone for that offense, and the Giants can lay legit claim to "best team in the league." Watching the NY/Carolina game tonight, I couldn't tell you who the best RB on the Giants is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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