In the market for a new 22 rifle.

[idahov]

I'm going to be buying a 22 for my son and I to shoot together. He's 9 and a normal size kid. Initially I was going to go the Ruger route, mainly due to all the aftermarket products out there. Now I'm leaning towards the Marlin because it's size may be a little easier for him to handle. The Marlin is also $50 less.

 

I've shot a 10/22 many times and it is a fun little gun. I don't know anyone who has a Marlin, so I'm hoping some fellow Huddlers have some experience with them. My boy has only been shooting a couple of times, so I also want to get something that will help him develop good shooting skills/habits.

 

Many thanks!

[DMD]

I grew up with a Marlin .22 and back in the day we would buy a brick of shells and head down to the swamp all day. It was a great gun for me and seriously shot thousands of times. You cannot go wrong either way but as you say, the Ruger allows you to really change a lot on the gun which can be fun. The Marlin is just a rifle and a scope is about all you can add to it.

 

If money was no object for the Ruger - Awesome but expensive

 

Personally, the Ruger is a great gun to be sure. For just plinking around, there is nothing wrong with the Marlin. I loved mine. I still have it. It was the first gun that I ever owned.

[idahov]

I think a 10/22 is definitely something I'll get down the road. It's amazing all the stocks, barrels, etc. you can find for it. It would be pretty easy to get $1,000+ into a build job. You could get an AR for what some people put into them. Still a lot cheaper to shoot though.

 

The Marlin is a bare-bones, old school little gun that I think would be a good shooter. I think that's what I like about it. We'll initially probably go without the scope so he learns to shoot with the iron sites first. I just wish I knew someone who's got one, so we could try it out first.

[KSUChiefsTarheelFan]

Ruger

[Jimmy Neutron]

I love my Marlin lever guns, but if you're looking at semi-autos - go with the 10/22. They have youth models that can be switched out to an adult size stock as he grows.

[polksalet]

Both are great guns but for a kid I'd go Marlin. I love my Marlin, it is a blast.

[Kid Cid]

I've had nothing but fun with my 10/22. It was the first gun I ever got so there is that emotional attachment. Still, it's virtually indestructable and like the folks say, plenty of things you can do to it.

[Perchoutofwater]

I bought my 10 year old girl a lever action 30-30 (.30 WCF). She shoots it fine. While the ammo is a lot cheaper for a .22, a little bit larger gun has more uses unless you are afraid of him flinching.

[westvirginia]

The Marlin will be more accurate "out-of-the-box" than will the Ruger. And either gun will last more than one lifetime if given a modicum of care. The Marlin also has no mag to lose. And like you said, it's roughly $50 cheaper. I have an 883 (tube-fed mag, bolt-action, blued w/walnut stock).

 

Yeah, you can spend a grand to doll up one of the Rugers (I have a bone-stock stainless/laminate-stock model), but you have a .22 that still won't get better than 1/2" groups, 3/8" if the guy building it really knows what he's doing.

 

Both guns are fun, and if you think the boy will take care of it and continue to grow in the hobby, then I'd buy the Ruger, probably. But whichever gun you get him, the kid will remember and cherish it always, and probably won't sell it if he were starving.

[Yukon Cornelius]

have both. like the marlin for me but if for a kid just shootin at targets get the 10/22

[idahov]

You guys are awesome! Just the kind of insight I was hoping for.

[Seattle LawDawg]

Really drunk right now but...

 

...Here's the thing with the 10/22: I've owned quite a few for the past quite a few years and always enjoy tweaking them to the point that there's basically nothing stock left but replacing the stock, barrel, trigger, etc. have been great experiences and have actually been pretty good learning experieces. Stock, you really can't go wrong with either, but if you want to learn about gunsmithing, the 10/22 is a good starting point. I've sold my last 3 and my current 10/22 has almost nothing left stock: Green Mt barrel, Bell & Carlson stock, Volquartsen trigger & receiver....all of them have been a lot of fun working with, and i'd put my current gun up against most 22s for accuracy. The 10/22 out of the box = crap, but the ability to modify it is amazing.

 

I probably shouldn't go shooting right now though...

[Caveman_Nick]

I bought my 10 year old girl a lever action 30-30 (.30 WCF). She shoots it fine. While the ammo is a lot cheaper for a .22, a little bit larger gun has more uses unless you are afraid of him flinching.

 

A .22 is always worth having for the ammo savings. A 9 year old is only going to have so many uses for a rifle, and the .22 will pay for itself in the first year if here is a fair amount of shooting going on.

 

Idahov, there's nothing wrong with either choice, but it might be worth considering getting a manual action (bolt/lever) for the first time out. I would recommend a bolt action. The hands-on aspect early on is nice training.

 

This Marlin takes a 7 shot mag. There's a bunch of other options there. Henry makes a good starter lever action if you want to go that route. I always have a soft spot for lever action.

 

If you are definitely going semi-auto, the 10/22 really can't be beat as a first semi.

[Jimmy Neutron]

Really drunk right now but...

 

...Here's the thing with the 10/22: I've owned quite a few for the past quite a few years and always enjoy tweaking them to the point that there's basically nothing stock left but replacing the stock, barrel, trigger, etc. have been great experiences and have actually been pretty good learning experieces. Stock, you really can't go wrong with either, but if you want to learn about gunsmithing, the 10/22 is a good starting point. I've sold my last 3 and my current 10/22 has almost nothing left stock: Green Mt barrel, Bell & Carlson stock, Volquartsen trigger & receiver....all of them have been a lot of fun working with, and i'd put my current gun up against most 22s for accuracy. The 10/22 out of the box = crap, but the ability to modify it is amazing.

 

I probably shouldn't go shooting right now though...

 

I think the 10/22 is pretty solid out of the box. I only own one, but it'll put a magazine's worth of ammo into a dime at 25 yards and a quarter at 50. The stock trigger is pretty crappy. I threw a Volquartsen trigger kit ($25) in mine and it's pretty nice now.

[westvirginia]

I think the 10/22 is pretty solid out of the box. I only own one, but it'll put a magazine's worth of ammo into a dime at 25 yards and a quarter at 50. The stock trigger is pretty crappy. I threw a Volquartsen trigger kit ($25) in mine and it's pretty nice now.

 

You have an exceptional one, then. I can only get quarter sized groups out of one at 25 yards on a good day. And that's about the norm from all the ones I've shot (probably 7-10). I can literally drive thumbtacks with my marlin through open sights at 25 yards.

 

But I own more than a couple Rugers because they don't EVER break and NEVER jam with factory mags and good ammo. They are pure-D anvils where reliability is concerned.

[Caveman_Nick]

You could always get the 10/22 and build one of these...

 

As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.

The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.

 

 

The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.

 

Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.

 

There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.

 

This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.

 

 

Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.

 

Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]

On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).

 

 

So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.

Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.

 

How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”

The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.

 

 

What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –

 

1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.

Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.

You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.

 

2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.

The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.

 

3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.

 

4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.

 

 

 

There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.

A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.

 

Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.

The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.

 

Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –

1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”

 

2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”

 

I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,

this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.

 

I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

For you 10/22 owners - these are excellent high cap mags:

 

 

 

They have set screws on each corner of the top of the mag that can be adjusted to an individual 10/22. Most 10/22 aftermarket mags are pretty iffy due to Ruger's loose tolerances on the mag well, this solves the problem beautifully. They're tough as hell too.

[Choppy]

I'd suggust you go another direction entirely. Look for a Model 74 Winchester. I've shot all of the aforementioned rifles and none compare to the durability and accuracy of the 74. My favorite of all the guns I own.

[Front Row]

I suggest you research the .17 HMR , way way way way more accurate than any .22, almost no recoil and fairly inexpensive; starting around $ 300. or so.

Did I mention their extremely accurate? Shooting is alot more fun when you hit the mark consistently.

My .02

[Jimmy Neutron]

I suggest you research the .17 HMR , way way way way more accurate than any .22, almost no recoil and fairly inexpensive; starting around $ 300. or so.

Did I mention their extremely accurate? Shooting is alot more fun when you hit the mark consistently.

My .02

 

The .17 HMR is a blast to shoot. It's significantly more expensive to shoot though. I bought a heavy barreled Savage with the Accutrigger a few months ago and it is uber-cool. It's easy to shoot extremely well.

[Perchoutofwater]

Anyone have any experience with a Henry lever action .22? I'm thinking of getting my 7 y.o. a 22. The reason I'm looking at the Henry is it is the most like the Winchester 94 that she will be shooting when she goes deer hunting. I don't want a scope, it and it comes with the same hooded front sight as the Win 94. Are they worth a darn, or would I just be throwing money away?

[wirehairman]

Anyone have any experience with a Henry lever action .22? I'm thinking of getting my 7 y.o. a 22. The reason I'm looking at the Henry is it is the most like the Winchester 94 that she will be shooting when she goes deer hunting. I don't want a scope, it and it comes with the same hooded front sight as the Win 94. Are they worth a darn, or would I just be throwing money away?

 

I haven't shot the regular Henry .22, but my stepfather bought a Golden Boy in the .22 last year. He had me bring my gun rest down and sight it in for him. Off the bench using a good rest, I could shoot 5 shot groups the size of a dime at 50 yards. He did put a scope on it, but that doesn't change the fact that the gun itself is super accurate.

 

Just for fun, he had my wife shoot holes in actual dimes after I sighted it in so he could brag to his buddies about her.

[Caveman_Nick]

Anyone have any experience with a Henry lever action .22? I'm thinking of getting my 7 y.o. a 22. The reason I'm looking at the Henry is it is the most like the Winchester 94 that she will be shooting when she goes deer hunting. I don't want a scope, it and it comes with the same hooded front sight as the Win 94. Are they worth a darn, or would I just be throwing money away?

 

I have shot the Henry .22 lever gun. I liked it. Decent accuracy at 50'

 

I don't own one (yet), but I have hear that they are not the most durable guns, and might only last a few years if they are not well maintained. Then again, anything for a 7 yo. will be subject to some level of beating, and the price on the Henry is pretty good.

[westvirginia]

I have the Henry, and my Dad has the Golden Boy. Both are great guns, accurate, and the action really slicks up nicely after 300 rounds or so.

[polksalet]

Anyone have any experience with a Henry lever action .22? I'm thinking of getting my 7 y.o. a 22. The reason I'm looking at the Henry is it is the most like the Winchester 94 that she will be shooting when she goes deer hunting. I don't want a scope, it and it comes with the same hooded front sight as the Win 94. Are they worth a darn, or would I just be throwing money away?

 

you can buy ammo for that thing at academt for $10/box, tightwad, let her practice with a real gun

Edited March 25, 2009 by polksalet