Chavez Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm just wondering what Tom Boonen did to piss off God.* Man, what buzzard's luck. * - oh yeah, maybe snorting coke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.a.M Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yea Lance is Killing it right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 pretty interesting day, but doesn't really come close to settling anything. contador attacked the other leaders toward the end of the final climb. no one gave the effort to reel it back -- hard to say if they couldn't, or just didn't feel it was worth the ~20 seconds he ended up gaining. lance maintained in the group with evans, sastre, menchov, leipheimer, kloden, etc. so at the very least, lance would appear to be in the sort of shape that he can hang with most of the best riders. but can he hang with contador? that is the big question. 'cause man, when contador went....he f'n went. you just have to think that sort of attack is going to be tough for a 38 year old man to deal with. standings right now are: 1) some italian that was part of a breakaway today, 2) contador at - 6 seconds, 3) lance at -8 seconds, 4) leipheimer at -38, and 5) bradley wiggins at -46 secs (wiggins is having a really nice tour for garmin/chipotle) three more tough mountain stages the next 3 days, should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) interesting.... "Overall, I feel pretty good. ... Things didn't quite go according to plan that we set up earlier, but it didn't matter," he said. "It was a fine day overall." The 37-year-old Texan began the stage a split second off the lead and now trails by eight. Contador, the 2007 Tour winner, is six seconds behind the leader. He finished 3 minutes, 26 seconds after Feillu. Contador sped ahead in the last 1.2 miles, looking to seize the overall lead. He started the day 19 seconds behind Armstrong and finished 21 seconds before him. In the final ascent, Armstrong hugged the wheel of Australia's Cadel Evans, who briefly attacked Armstrong and Contador. Lance Armstrong, left, and Alberto Contador helped Astana continue to set the pace for the peleton. "When you've got a rider away, my obligation is to the team," Armstrong said. "I had to stay on his wheel. You just got to stay on his wheel." "That's not my specialty," he added. "But it's not bad at all, all things considered." in watching the replay, you can definitely see that lance does indeed just tuck in on evans' wheel and doesn't try at all to pull back contador. and lance seems to be subtly saying that contador is a little backstabbing pr!ck for attacking. this is going to be an interesting tour. could easily be an all-astana podium. Edited July 10, 2009 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 three more tough mountain stages the next 3 days, should be interesting. Yeah, the mountains are the most interesting. And you were right - my boy Cancellara can't climb. Lost 5 minutes yesterday to the elite guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 First let me say thanks to Chavez, Az, and Detlef. I never understood this thing but your discussions and explanations made it interesting. Is this race on tv? If so what channel? I am interested in watching a bit so any help is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 First let me say thanks to Chavez, Az, and Detlef. I never understood this thing but your discussions and explanations made it interesting. Is this race on tv? If so what channel? I am interested in watching a bit so any help is appreciated. Versus is showing it in HD (and in regular broadcast) pretty much non-stop. Otherwise you may be able to find live feeds online somewhere or other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I saw an interview with levi after the big stage yesterday, and he was only very transparently diplomatic in talking about contador's attack. that the game plan was just to respond to attacks and stay together as a team, and so on. he was asked if the decision to attack came from johan (the team director, analogous to a head coach) or from alberto himself. levi gave a little sardonic laugh and said, "oh, I think that was all alberto". lance is playing this whole thing well. don't be surprised if the team starts working for him, and not as much for contador. johan is going to have an interesting role to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) Gotta say that I really prefer the mountain stages that end at the top of the climbs rather than after a descent on the other side of the climb. I realize in the big picture that the big dogs can take it out of the rest on these stages but I'd like to see the leads gained on the climbs hold up. When they let them run it out, the peleton ultimately ends up either catching or at least taking a major bite out of the lead of anyone who pulled ahead on the climb. Hell, the only reason why the four who managed to stay ahead of the group did was because nobody in the group mattered. The other thing that I have always found odd is the the King of The Mountain is really the King of the Hills, since all the biggest climbs don't even count towards that competition. Mind you, there's already a special jersey for the guy who does the best on the biggest climbs and it's the one that ultimately everyone wants to wear. None the less, I've always found that odd. Oh, and Azz, I caught that interview as well. Curious to see how that turns out. Edited July 11, 2009 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Sacrebleu Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I saw an interview with levi after the big stage yesterday, and he was only very transparently diplomatic in talking about contador's attack. that the game plan was just to respond to attacks and stay together as a team, and so on. he was asked if the decision to attack came from johan (the team director, analogous to a head coach) or from alberto himself. levi gave a little sardonic laugh and said, "oh, I think that was all alberto". lance is playing this whole thing well. don't be surprised if the team starts working for him, and not as much for contador. johan is going to have an interesting role to play. I will say this: 1) despite my well documented distrust about Armstrong and cycling in general over this last decade, his participation in the tour this year has made me watch again with the same interest I had 10 years ago. 2) I predicted a top 5 to 10 finish for Lance on this tour. If he finishes in the top 3 of the tour, I am going to have to eat some crow. Because even if he was doped in the past, the fact of the matter is that he is 37, and if you can beat 150 pros in this race at that age including the very best, you are obviously in just a different class 3) I'm not sure why there is a Contrador kerfuffle here. He took off at 2kms from the finish line when he thought he could leave everyone in the dust (which he did) it's not like he attacked at the foot of the mountain. The consequence of this action is that Lance had to stick to Cadel Evans' wheel for all of two K. I don't get why it's a big deal 4) Contrador is the better cyclist today. Armstrong is the better candidate for Astana (publicity wise). I am sure Astana would love to convince Contrador to do a power share the way Hinault and Lemond did 25 years ago (have the young guy help the old guy even though the young guy is better, with promises of doing everything to help the young guy next year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 3) I'm not sure why there is a Contrador kerfuffle here. He took off at 2kms from the finish line when he thought he could leave everyone in the dust (which he did) it's not like he attacked at the foot of the mountain. The consequence of this action is that Lance had to stick to Cadel Evans' wheel for all of two K. I don't get why it's a big deal because he basically attacked his own team, contrary to the plan, assuming it would get him into yellow (though the italian guy in the breakaway threw a wrench into that). and his own team couldn't respond out of respect for team tactics. it's a pretty d00shy move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok now I have some questions? 1. Why did the two breakout from the pack today? All they gained was 40 seconds on the leaders (I think). Did they not wear themselves out for only 40 seconds - they have no chance anyway so I am thinking they broke out just to win a stage?? 2. So why did the Peleton not bring them back in? It seemed like only two teams were at the front of the peleton doing all the work??? Why was that? 3. Why did Astana not break out from the peleton with like 5k left to help Lance and the other dude (I forget his name right now)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok now I have some questions? 1. Why did the two breakout from the pack today? All they gained was 40 seconds on the leaders (I think). Did they not wear themselves out for only 40 seconds - they have no chance anyway so I am thinking they broke out just to win a stage?? 2. So why did the Peleton not bring them back in? It seemed like only two teams were at the front of the peleton doing all the work??? Why was that? 3. Why did Astana not break out from the peleton with like 5k left to help Lance and the other dude (I forget his name right now)? 1)I actually didn't watch the whole thing today but it is likely that's exactly why the did. For many of the guys in this race, the only chance they have at any glory at all is to win a stage. And honestly, that's a huge deal. I recall one of the guys was a team leader (albeit of a lesser team), but the other was just a random dude in the tour. Neither is going to be on the podium or even compete for one of the other spamshirts. This is their only chance to have hot french models kiss them in front of the cameras. 2)Because neither was a threat to the overall lead, the peleton didn't care. Everyone who has any chance at all of winning this thing was together in the main pack and realized that nobody would gain or lose ground to any of their main rivals, so there was no reason to do anything. Honestly, that goes back to the fact that I don't like mountain stages that don't end at the top of mountains. They always end up like this. Every breakaway ends up being marginalized on the descent, so nobody worth a damned ever bothers to try because of the exact reason you gave. Sure, they might gain a few minutes at the top, but it ends up being 30 seconds (or nothing) by the end of the race. 3)No move that late into a stage made by anyone of import is going to work. Had Astana busted out with 5K left, everyone else would have just gone with them. The only time that works is if the stage is ending on a climb where it's simply not a matter of choice to go with a breakaway. With the make-up of these stages, only one of the three ending with a climb, it was destined to pretty much go like this. I would imagine that is by design to save the drama for the Alps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 1)I actually didn't watch the whole thing today but it is likely that's exactly why the did. For many of the guys in this race, the only chance they have at any glory at all is to win a stage. And honestly, that's a huge deal. I recall one of the guys was a team leader (albeit of a lesser team), but the other was just a random dude in the tour. Neither is going to be on the podium or even compete for one of the other spamshirts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both Flandis and Contador get their TdF wins in part due to big breakaways on mountain stages? So yeah, in essence, they DID burn themselves up for 40 seconds - not that big a deal since tomorrow is a rest day - but if they had broken the stage open (unlikely, for the reasons det gave above), it CAN be a key to bigger things. Another reason riders will break away is if they are in contention for the Points/Mountain jersey - it allows them to be out ahead of the pack and pile up points (a la Hushovd on Sat). If you aren't going to be on the podium for GC, you might as well get one of the other spamshirts for your trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok now I have some questions? 1. Why did the two breakout from the pack today? All they gained was 40 seconds on the leaders (I think). Did they not wear themselves out for only 40 seconds - they have no chance anyway so I am thinking they broke out just to win a stage?? 2. So why did the Peleton not bring them back in? It seemed like only two teams were at the front of the peleton doing all the work??? Why was that? 3. Why did Astana not break out from the peleton with like 5k left to help Lance and the other dude (I forget his name right now)? 1. yeah, as some of the other guys alluded to, stage wins at the TDF are huge. it's not only the highlight (even career highlight) of many individual riders, it can also be the main accomplishment of a whole TEAM ad the TDF. the guys breaking away in the mountain stages are usually looking for one of two things: 1) the stage win, or 2) points in the polkadot jersey race. 2. it's always a calculation the defending teams have to make. it can burn a lot of energy to go after a breakaway. if the guys that make it out aren't a threat to your goals for the tour (like winning the overall race), it's better to just let them go. but if someone like cadel evans got into one of those breakaways, you can bet astana would be lining up at the front of the peloton to reel him back in almost instantly. the big teams know who is good overall and who isn't, and they only chase when it's in their interests to chase. 3. you don't see a lot of attacking on stages that end after a long descent rather than a climb. because whatever time gains you make by attacking on the climb will be reeled right back in on the descent, where numbers really increase speed. it does happen, just not often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Both of those were the later mountain stages. It's not good strategy for a serious GC contender to take the yellow this early. First point - VERY true, forgot that part of it. Still, a bold attack could vault an also-ran into shouting range of the contenders; going into a rest day, he could recover and after that, who knows? Second point - also very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both Flandis and Contador get their TdF wins in part due to big breakaways on mountain stages? well, two different case studies there. contador won, the way most yellow jersey winners win, by kicking everyone else's ass on some of the big climbs. landis....he went into that tour as one of the favorites, but then he bonked hughly on one of the big climbs and lost enormous time, to where he was like 6 minutes off the lead. then on a long stage with a bunch of climbs, he went out on an early and very strong solo attack. the leaders' teams didn't chase right away, because 1) he was so far back at that point he didn't seem like a threat, and 2) it is rare for a solo breakaway like that to work. but landis put in a heroic solo ride that day (thanks to dope ) to get back into contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Did anyone see or follow today's stage? Seems like a rather pedestrian stage, so I'm wondering if anything of particular interest happened and if I should watch it tonight? please, no spoilers, just a yes or no I didn't watch it, but yesterday Lance Armstrong said that (the overall race) wouldn't change until Sunday's stage finish at Verbier. Relatedly, I have decided that I am not going to go watch this year's tour. If I were not coming back to the US on Monday, I would find a way by hook or by crook to be on the road somewhere in last last climb to Verbier. But given that Verbier is on the exact opposite side of Switzerland of where my inlaws live, it just isn't going to happen. (Especially since there is really only one road into or out of the area AND it is on a weekend. It will be a nightmare. I will just watch in on tv and be happy that Armstrong indicated that this probably won't be his last TdF.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Did anyone see or follow today's stage? Seems like a rather pedestrian stage, so I'm wondering if anything of particular interest happened and if I should watch it tonight? please, no spoilers, just a yes or no I listened to it online. Boring stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 all I know is the big sprinters were at the top of the stage standings, meaning essentially, everyone finished together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 but geeteebee said nothing happened, so I'll check results and news. Well, Kurt Asle Arvesen broke his collarbone and abandoned. That's something, but doesn't really affect much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) wow--just announced that Levi Leipheimer broke his scaphoid bone (wrist) in a fall in the last 3 kilometers of yesterday's stage and his Tour is done. Edited July 17, 2009 by wiegie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchico Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 How the heck can a guy have a punctured tire and not lose any time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 How the heck can a guy have a punctured tire and not lose any time? It takes 20 seconds for him to get a new bike or a new wheel from his team car. 4 teammates stay behind and help him catch up to the pelaton. If it happens in the last couple of miles, he probably does lose time but if not, he has time to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 wow--just announced that Levi Leipheimer broke his scaphoid bone (wrist) in a fall in the last 3 kilometers of yesterday's stage and his Tour is done. awful development for him, and probably for lance too. levi had a great shot at a podium finish, with guys like evans, sastre and menchov already minutes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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