muck Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 We recently got a pup. The breeder we bought him from feeds his dogs a "raw" diet five days and kibble two days a week. Anyone else here feed their dog a "raw" diet (or something close to that)? I'd like to learn more... Danke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 When my male boxer had all his health problems earlier this year, the vet switched him to a venison based diet. Venison based dog food is about twice as expensive your typical chicken based dog foods. Since I'm an avid hunter, and had read quite a bit about feeding "raw" I asked the vet what she thought. She said she is very much against it, because the vast majority of dogs on a "raw" diet have sever vitamin deficiencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 iams baby. it's made by a great company ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I think most vets are against raw diets because they get their nutritional information from major dog food companies. I did raw for a short while but it's much more expensive and requires more maintenance. As far as kibble, Iams, Science Diet and anything else that is mainstream is probably the lowest grade food you can give your dog. They are loaded with chemicals and grains. We currently feed our dog Blue Buffalo but there are a few other 'holistic' companies that are just as good. Orijen is supposedly very good, we tried it but it didn't sit well with our dog. I've done quite a bit of research on this. I know raw is the best option, dogs need raw bones too which is usually included in any raw meat patties you might get. If you can afford raw, I think it's the way to go - if you go with kibble, try Orijen or Blue Buffalo or some of the others of the same ilk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 As far as kibble, Iams, Science Diet and anything else that is mainstream is probably the lowest grade food you can give your dog. They are loaded with chemicals and grains. dude, iams healthy naturals is great stuff. fish oil, flaxseed, carrots, etc. no filler, no preservatives, nothing artificial. pick it up at your grocer or vet today ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 dude, iams healthy naturals is great stuff. fish oil, flaxseed, carrots, etc. no filler, no preservatives, nothing artificial. pick it up at your grocer or vet today ... From your posts here, it appears you may work for them - I can respect that. I haven't seen the ingredients of the 'healthy naturals' line, but generally, if they are a publicially traded company, you can be assured that they are more about making money than they are about doing what's best for your dog - and that means cheap filler ingredients. All I know is that the potential life span of a dog is 25+ years, yet most dogs are lucky to live past 10. The traditional kibble is a main reason that dog's don't live as long as they should. Purina, SD, Iams and anything found in an ordinary grocery store is probably the worst type of kibble for your dog. Again, if you can afford the raw diet, I'd do it for sure. It's not just about raw meat and bones - if you do it properly, your dog will get more/better nutrients than he would in any kibble (Orijen, Blue Buffalo included). We still give our dog carrots, sweet potatotes, avocado and bananas - usually puree them and stuff his kong, then freeze it. When we leave, it's the perfect diversion and he will gnaw on that thing for an hour or so - it's super healthy. We don't do any rawhides or any treats from the local grocer - we go to a specialty holisitc dog store by our home (there are tons in Chicago). If you look on the ingredients of anything and can't pronounce half of it, then it's probably a bunch of crap. Sidenote - not all fruits are good for dogs. Grapes, for instance can be deadly, so make sure you read up on whatever natural food you plan on feeding your pet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Magnolia Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Good post by Brentastic. Most vets are not well versed on nutrition or behavior but gladly give out plenty of bad advice. I know pleny of people who have dogs on raw diets and they thrive and are very healthy. You will never see an obese dog who is on a raw diet. The downside is time and cost. There are pre-prepared foods that are very expensive but pre made so no more time involved than feeding kibble. You also really need a seperate freezer to store the food. If you have a good relationship with a butcher they will give you free or next to nothing cost of parts of the animal that will normally be thrown away. Butchers commonly give out free chicken and turkey necks, but although rare ,dogs have swallowed whole and choked on them., even causing death. BTW, you can feed raw marrow bones as a snack which helps clean the teeth by chewing, and also the enzymes that are in the bones and marrow break down tarter. Raw dog bones are safe to feed. Most raw diets consist of chicken necks and wings because they are cheap. It is when they are cooked and become brittle that makes them unsafe. Also the enzymes that help breakdown tarter gets cooked out. You never see a wild wolf or coyote wth tarter. Dog do not have a vitamin defiency on raw. It's folk lore by vets who will assume that will happen. They will also say dogs are exposed to salomella and other bacteria but just isn't so. But, it does take research to make sure you serve a balanced diet. Tons of books out there on the subject and some written by vets who feed raw. Go to www.dogwise.com for the best selection of quality books. I tried to feed my dogs raw but my one dog did not chew his food and he got so amped up because it tasted so good, he barfed it back up seconds after it hit his stomach. I was also afraid he'd choke because he would not chew it. If I was a good mom I would have ground it for him in a food grinder which takes time. The pre-prepared foods are made that way and often found in specialty pet stores where they suppy the raw in freezers. Also he got very primal about the raw food and started guarding his food bowl from the other dog and cat, and even guarding where the food was. Not behavior I wanted to encourage. I now feed the grain free kibbles, which is the closet in dry food to the raw diets foods. Brent suggested some very good brands in his post. A brand that Brent did not mention that is a little less expenisve is Taste of the Wild. It is less expensive because it is a little more mass produced. It is made by the company, Diamond Brand, who acts as a contractor and makes about 80% of your premimum brand foods these days. The dog food company supplies the recipe and Diamond Brands makes the food. So, you lose some quality of control. Muck you obviously got your dog from a quality breeder if they recommended a raw diet. I see a lot of clients whose dogs come from a breeder and their breeder recommends this crap food. They feed their dogs crap because they have 20 dogs and got to feed economically. Brent, if I die and am reincarnated, I'd like to come back as your dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 I fed him some samples of Taste of the Wild (the Salmon type). He liked it. I've tried some others, too (Premium Edge and "Chicken Soup for the Dogs Soul", neither of which he liked as much) ... am hopeful to try more next week. BTW, the breeder I got my dog from feeds Eagle Pack Holistic the two days he does feed kibble. I haven't found any EPH samples to try yet ... and haven't had a chance to track down a butcher yet ... but, I'll try to get to that next week. Also, for what I've read, it seems like anything that contains "by product" it's probably not worth feeding to the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Magnolia Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Muck I have lots of training articles on my website for raising a puppy if interested like crate training, housebreaking, destructive chewing, jumping, mouthy behavior etc. Address is www.pawsitiveexperience.com and go to the training tips page. I have about 45 behavior and training tips on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Good post by Brentastic. Most vets are not well versed on nutrition or behavior but gladly give out plenty of bad advice. I know pleny of people who have dogs on raw diets and they thrive and are very healthy. You will never see an obese dog who is on a raw diet. The downside is time and cost. There are pre-prepared foods that are very expensive but pre made so no more time involved than feeding kibble. You also really need a seperate freezer to store the food. If you have a good relationship with a butcher they will give you free or next to nothing cost of parts of the animal that will normally be thrown away. Butchers commonly give out free chicken and turkey necks, but although rare ,dogs have swallowed whole and choked on them., even causing death. BTW, you can feed raw marrow bones as a snack which helps clean the teeth by chewing, and also the enzymes that are in the bones and marrow break down tarter. Raw dog bones are safe to feed. Most raw diets consist of chicken necks and wings because they are cheap. It is when they are cooked and become brittle that makes them unsafe. Also the enzymes that help breakdown tarter gets cooked out. You never see a wild wolf or coyote wth tarter. Dog do not have a vitamin defiency on raw. It's folk lore by vets who will assume that will happen. They will also say dogs are exposed to salomella and other bacteria but just isn't so. But, it does take research to make sure you serve a balanced diet. Tons of books out there on the subject and some written by vets who feed raw. Go to www.dogwise.com for the best selection of quality books. I tried to feed my dogs raw but my one dog did not chew his food and he got so amped up because it tasted so good, he barfed it back up seconds after it hit his stomach. I was also afraid he'd choke because he would not chew it. If I was a good mom I would have ground it for him in a food grinder which takes time. The pre-prepared foods are made that way and often found in specialty pet stores where they suppy the raw in freezers. Also he got very primal about the raw food and started guarding his food bowl from the other dog and cat, and even guarding where the food was. Not behavior I wanted to encourage. I now feed the grain free kibbles, which is the closet in dry food to the raw diets foods. Brent suggested some very good brands in his post. A brand that Brent did not mention that is a little less expenisve is Taste of the Wild. It is less expensive because it is a little more mass produced. It is made by the company, Diamond Brand, who acts as a contractor and makes about 80% of your premimum brand foods these days. The dog food company supplies the recipe and Diamond Brands makes the food. So, you lose some quality of control. Muck you obviously got your dog from a quality breeder if they recommended a raw diet. I see a lot of clients whose dogs come from a breeder and their breeder recommends this crap food. They feed their dogs crap because they have 20 dogs and got to feed economically. Brent, if I die and am reincarnated, I'd like to come back as your dog! Thanks for the kind words. I aim to do the absolute best as a parent and dog owner when it comes to nutrition, safety and overall love. You would love to be my dog, he is so spoiled!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 dude, iams healthy naturals is great stuff. fish oil, flaxseed, carrots, etc. no filler, no preservatives, nothing artificial. pick it up at your grocer or vet today ... For the record: Iams Healthy Naturals ingredients list Looks better than many, not as good as others. What I will say is that if more dogs at this than the crap that is Purina Dog Chow (or similar), the pet world would be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) FYI, a few other foods that I'm looking at if we don't go 100% raw: Taste of the Wild -- Pacific Stream Canine Formula Taste of the Wild -- High Prairie Canine Formula Wellness CORE -- Ocean Formula Wellness CORE -- Original Formula Eagle Pack Holistic -- Large/Giant Puppy Blue Buffalo -- Wilderness Blend Blue Buffalo -- Large Puppy Blend EVO Reduced Fat Innova Large Breed Puppy ...plus a couple others... ETA: He had his first pig ear tonight; probably will get his first beef knuckle this week. Edited July 20, 2009 by muck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 FYI, a few other foods that I'm looking at if we don't go 100% raw: Taste of the Wild -- Pacific Stream Canine Formula Taste of the Wild -- High Prairie Canine Formula Wellness CORE -- Ocean Formula Wellness CORE -- Original Formula Eagle Pack Holistic -- Large/Giant Puppy Blue Buffalo -- Wilderness Blend Blue Buffalo -- Large Puppy Blend EVO Reduced Fat Innova Large Breed Puppy ...plus a couple others... ETA: He had his first pig ear tonight; probably will get his first beef knuckle this week. Yeah, Wellness is another that is very good. Have you looked at Orijen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 Yeah, Wellness is another that is very good. Have you looked at Orijen? I've been to a couple of stores, but haven't seen it yet. I'm hoping to head out this afternoon for a peek at a couple of other pet places... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 We feed our dogs Eukanuba lamb and rice. They enjoy it. They are sisters from the same litter. One is average weight the other needs to drop a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 One thing I read about bones... in the wild, canines also ingest hair, fur, whatever, which gets wrapped around bone splinters in their digestive system. This supposedly helps protect their intestines from getting lacerated by bone splinters. The raw diet has some issues with both this and choking incidents as well... and aside from the prohibitive cost, I think it carries a bit too much risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I've been to a couple of stores, but haven't seen it yet. I'm hoping to head out this afternoon for a peek at a couple of other pet places... I feed Toby Orijen 6 Fish and he loves it. I've had him on Showcoat, Innova, Innova EVO, Wellness and Science Diet Salmon & Potatoes in the past. Wasn't real pleased with any of those other than the Science Diet, which surprised me. The Orijen is $75 for a 30 lb. bag so it ain't cheap, but it is quality stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm still not sure on what the cost REALLY is for raw vs. super premium food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I feed Toby Orijen 6 Fish and he loves it. Out of curiosity, what kind of dog is Toby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) My 13 year old pug, last year had trouble walking, keeping her balance and had incontinence. I switched her over to a raw lamb diet (Primal Pet Foods) http://www.primalpetfoods.com/ and the improvement is incredible. She has better balance an no longer has incontinence. I really believe the change in diet is extending her life. You buy the food frozen and it contains 1 ounze frozen nuggets. You take out the amount you need based on the size of your dog, let it sit at room temperature for about 2 hours and then serve. You can't find the stuff at your grocery store or PetSmart, but many small pet stores have it. I guess you could go to their website and get a list of sellers in your area. It is more expensive, but well worth it. I wouldn't say that if I didn't see a huge difference after 2 months. Edited July 20, 2009 by electricrelish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Out of curiosity, what kind of dog is Toby? He's a lab. ~80 lbs. so he'll be quite a bit smaller than what yours will be, but still considered a large breed. Also, keep in mind, many of these foods are not appropriate for pups but most of these manufacturers make a puppy blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Magnolia Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 For the record: Iams Healthy Naturals ingredients list Looks better than many, not as good as others. What I will say is that if more dogs at this than the crap that is Purina Dog Chow (or similar), the pet world would be better off. Here are red flags I see in the top ingredients: brewers rice--this is milled rice so fragmented pieces and much of the nutrients are lost. Corn meal as a top ingredient? Many dogs are allergic to corn and all dogs don't digest corn so it is a filler that gets pooped right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 I just got back from two specialty pet stores. Good grief, there are a ton of feeding options. Honestly, I'm thinking of buying seven different bags of stuff, giving him a different bag each day and forget trying to figure it all out. Ack! PS - All the "add this and add that" stuff to the purported raw diets seems crazy. A bag of "additive" for supplements, etc. that is supposed to last about 1 month cost $81! Are you kidding me?! Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I just got back from two specialty pet stores. Good grief, there are a ton of feeding options. Honestly, I'm thinking of buying seven different bags of stuff, giving him a different bag each day and forget trying to figure it all out. Ack! PS - All the "add this and add that" stuff to the purported raw diets seems crazy. A bag of "additive" for supplements, etc. that is supposed to last about 1 month cost $81! Are you kidding me?! Wow. You don't have to get too crazy - I trust that between me and Sugar Mags, you have enough brands to choose from. Pick one and see how your dog's stool reacts (looking for non-runny). Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Orijen - any of these are a top option. Pick one and see how your dog reacts after a couple of weeks, if the stool looks good, stick with it. If it's runny, try one of the other three until you see solid stool. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 I am moving to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I'm still researching raw. I want to get the sourcing lined up before doing anything other than feeding kibble. ...that said, I'll probably toss him a chicken quarter every now and then for a treat (in lieu of some/all of the kibble for that day)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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