Does anyone know anything about cattle ranching?

[muck]

You are overlooking the fact your grass is all 'roided out . . . .

 

No its not.

 

************************

 

Death for breakfast, sex for supper

 

Joel Saladin has an idea for something called "mob grazing" that seems to make a ton of sense and would involve MUCH less ground than most ranchers think they need.

 

Here is Joe's website -- he's (apparently) the guru of all non-traditional-grazing-technique gurus

Edited January 5, 2010 by muck

[muck]

That is one big career change you are thinking about.

 

Is it better to be bandied about by the whims of (i) the market and (ii) other people who are operating a business you are part owner of (generally, my current plight) ... or to be bandied about by the whims of the weather and your own work ethic / health?

 

It is a question I find myself asking.

[Perchoutofwater]

Is it better to be bandied about by the whims of (i) the market and (ii) other people who are operating a business you are part owner of (generally, my current plight) ... or to be bandied about by the whims of the weather and your own work ethic / health?

 

It is a question I find myself asking.

 

You went to the wrong college to be a rancher. They teach you how to stick your arm up a cows ass and how to jack off a bull at A&M.

[muck]

...lots of good info...

 

First, many small-scale farms direct market their meat to consumers at $2/lb here around KC (fwiw).

 

Second, to lay out what I'm thinking (in general terms) ... buy two unrelated adult females and their newborn calves for (say) $2000 total.

 

Have my neighbor with the bull unrelated to my four females (two moms and their daughters) impregnate all four in exchange for one of the four calves to be born (my choice).

 

These four heifers have babies, two and two. Give one of the boys to my neighbor and butcher the other boy for my own freezer. So, hopefully, after two years, we have the original four, plus two female calves. A herd of six (plus a full freezer).

 

Of these six heifers, breed them all to another unrelated bull (again, in exchange for one of the calves, my choice). Of the six babies, hopefully three are girls. Give a boy to the farmer with the bull, slaughter one for my freezer and sell the other one to someone else. We end year three with nine heifers.

 

Now, we can start to cull the last 10% of calving moms; so, in year four, whichever mom births last is slaughtered that fall for our freezer. Nine heifers have nine babies; four girls (lets say) and five boys. Give two of the boys to the farmer with the bull and slaughter the other three plus the late-birthing mom (one of which goes in my freezer). How, we're at 12 heifers after four years (and a $2000 investment, plus lots of time and temporary fencing ... less the revenue brought in from the butcher / slaughterhouse / auction house).

 

We'd really be in real business if we could find a bull that had a history of throwing girls.

 

********************

 

Regarding the grazing ... as I understand it ...

 

The basic idea behind mob grazing is to have many types of animals grazing the same area ... pigs will want different vegetation than would cows, sheep, chickens or turkeys. Rotate the pigs, cows and sheep through the very small areas with the chickens and turkeys not far behind them. Why? Chickens and turkeys will sort through the poop and pick out all the tasty things they like to eat, spreading the poop all over the place in the process. Then, the cows come in and stomp the chicken/turkey poop and their spreadout poop into the ground (again, because they're all in a relatively confined eating area). None of the pathogens are allowed to live (because the chickens eat them or they die in the weeks/months between grazing in that particular part of the land) and so the cows don't get sick.

 

Cows wouldn't eat in the same area more than once every several weeks, but when they did, they'd eat well. Then, rotate to a new area. Rinse. Repeat.

 

No money spent on fertilizer. No money spent on hormones or steroids. No money spent on vaccines.

Edited January 5, 2010 by muck

[muck]

You went to the wrong college to be a rancher. They teach you how to stick your arm up a cows ass and how to jack off a bull at A&M.

 

1) I didn't go to A&M.

2) I have had zero training in how to be a rancher.

[Azazello1313]

1) I didn't go to A&M.

2) I have had zero training in how to be a rancher.

 

bullwhackers are born, not made

[dmarc117]

The beef in our freezer is grass fed, no hormones, etc.

 

 

and there is the question you must answer.

 

if you want to do to make money, your herd will have all those things in them. maximizes your gains.

Edited January 5, 2010 by dmarc117

[SEC=UGA]

You are going to need a good amount of land. A friend of mine has about 600 head of cow/calf pairs and he leases 10,000 acres of land. He also feeds them silage and shelled corn in the winter so he doesn't need winter grass. He is a little larger than you need to be. Where I deer hunt they have about 10,000 acres of owned and lease land for about 300 head of cow/calf pairs but they have more arid soil and the grass is not as lush. They also winter their cattle on grass with hay. Land lease can range from $15 per acre to $25, purchasing land would run you about $600 or higher depending on water, wells, fences, etc an acre for rangeland in western South Dakota.

 

Now for the cattle for example a bred heifer would cost you about $1100. A solid mouth 5-6 year old cow about $1000 a broken mouth cow typically over 8 years old with about 3 to 4 years of viability left. These cows are kept year after year. Most herds will have a 5 to 10% open rate, that is a when a cow fails to breed back the following year. There is no sense in feeding this cow for a year with no return. Sell her and buy a younger more viable cow. You will get about $600 to $800 for slaughter for this old cow. This is what you are eating at McDonalds and Burger King. Typically people will hold back some of their better heifers and breed them so replacing your opens is not as bad, but calving out heifers is a bitch. You also loose a year in this process.

 

Depending on when you calve and where, it can be a difficult process. The older the cow, the better the bull the easier. The worse the weather, the worse as well. The sooner you calve out your cows, the sooner you can sell them, or wait and sell them a little heavier. Typically calves are sold in the 500 to 600 lb range here in central South Dakota. They need to be born in March for them to get that big by fall Oct - Nov when feed lots are buying, or winter wheat farms in Texas and Oklahoma are buying.

 

Selling your calves at 500 to 600 lbs you can expect $1.00 to 1.10 per pound in a good market. So 250 head at 500 pounds at $1.00 you would make $125,000. Now start paying the bills.

 

 

Anyone else need this translated?

[cre8tiff]

Ask ILikeSoup.

 

Wildebeast are a herd animal, much like cattle, and he is pretty talented at rounding em up.

 

I think you may be onto something. Perhaps Mrs. Muck wants to move his cougar-bait butt out to the boonies...

[DMD]

Dude, you'd be like the smartest rancher ever. They'd probably make fun of you down at the feed store for being too smart. That and ranching in khaki Dockers and a starched white Brooks Brothers shirt.

[westvirginia]

Dude, you'd be like the smartest rancher ever. They'd probably make fun of you down at the feed store for being too smart. That and ranching in khaki Dockers and a starched white Brooks Brothers shirt.

 

Wearing crocs and reading a Warren Buffet book on his golf cart...

[muck]

and there is the question you must answer.

 

if you want to do to make money, your herd will have all those things in them. maximizes your gains.

 

I think what you meant to say is that it maximizes your revenue.

 

It's my impression that to (i) eliminate market variability on the inputs (i.e., feed, fertilizer, steriods, antibiotics, etc) through natural methods and (ii) direct marketing the outputs (i.e., cutting out the middle man) could make it rather profitable.

 

As an aside, however, there is a HUGH push in congress to require ALL food to be traceable back to its source. If this passes, no more farmers markets. No more direct marketing your eggs, fruits, veggies, chickens, cows, etc. to those who live near you. This type of "big brother" legislation is a problem, imo.

[bpwallace49]

First, many small-scale farms direct market their meat to consumers at $2/lb here around KC (fwiw).

 

Second, to lay out what I'm thinking (in general terms) ... buy two unrelated adult females and their newborn calves for (say) $2000 total.

 

Have my neighbor with the bull unrelated to my four females (two moms and their daughters) impregnate all four in exchange for one of the four calves to be born (my choice).

 

These four heifers have babies, two and two. Give one of the boys to my neighbor and butcher the other boy for my own freezer. So, hopefully, after two years, we have the original four, plus two female calves. A herd of six (plus a full freezer).

 

Of these six heifers, breed them all to another unrelated bull (again, in exchange for one of the calves, my choice). Of the six babies, hopefully three are girls. Give a boy to the farmer with the bull, slaughter one for my freezer and sell the other one to someone else. We end year three with nine heifers.

 

Now, we can start to cull the last 10% of calving moms; so, in year four, whichever mom births last is slaughtered that fall for our freezer. Nine heifers have nine babies; four girls (lets say) and five boys. Give two of the boys to the farmer with the bull and slaughter the other three plus the late-birthing mom (one of which goes in my freezer). How, we're at 12 heifers after four years (and a $2000 investment, plus lots of time and temporary fencing ... less the revenue brought in from the butcher / slaughterhouse / auction house).

 

yeah . . . I am just going to buy some beef at Costco.

 

Aside: Muck . . . where you at the Double Deuce of "Road House" fame when you were *ahem* approached by your cougar stalker?

[westvirginia]

I think what you meant to say is that it maximizes your revenue.

 

It's my impression that to (i) eliminate market variability on the inputs (i.e., feed, fertilizer, steriods, antibiotics, etc) through natural methods and (ii) direct marketing the outputs (i.e., cutting out the middle man) could make it rather profitable.

 

As an aside, however, there is a HUGH push in congress to require ALL food to be traceable back to its source. If this passes, no more farmers markets. No more direct marketing your eggs, fruits, veggies, chickens, cows, etc. to those who live near you. This type of "big brother" legislation is a problem, imo.

 

I thought this had already passed - like two years ago. The FDA didn't go ahead with the regs?

[muck]

Dude, you'd be like the smartest rancher ever. They'd probably make fun of you down at the feed store for being too smart. That and ranching in khaki Dockers and a starched white Brooks Brothers shirt.

 

Not sure how smart I am, but in any event, I think I'd be fine if I wore bib overalls all the time.

[muck]

I thought this had already passed - like two years ago. The FDA didn't go ahead with the regs?

 

Honestly, I don't know. It's possible that there is a lag between passage and implementation deadlines...

[Perchoutofwater]

I thought this had already passed - like two years ago. The FDA didn't go ahead with the regs?

 

I think the house passed it within the last year, but I don't think the senate has done anything with it at all.

[dmarc117]

I think the house passed it within the last year, but I don't think the senate has done anything with it at all.

 

 

they have better ways to skrew us!

[cre8tiff]

Something to consider: We have relatives who are Chicago residents (wealthy). They bought a "share" in an organic farm that allows them to get a certain amount of organic vegetables, cheese, milk and meats from that farm in a year (X a week). The farmer makes a good deal of money with the large number of families who buy in. I don't know what the name is, but I daresay you could find any one of a number of them online. At least enough to understand the business plan for them...

[Perchoutofwater]

Here is the legislation about tracing foods that would destroy farmers markets and the like. Luckily it looks like it will never make it out of committee.

 

H.R. 814 Trace Act is in committee. The sponsor and five co-sponsors are all dems. No action has been taken since April 23rd 2009.

 

S. 425 Food Safety and Tracking Improvement Act is the senate version and it is stuck in committee as well. The bill is sponsored by one dem, there are no co-sponsors. No action has been taken since February 12, 2009.

[Big John]

Dude, you'd be like the smartest rancher ever. They'd probably make fun of you down at the feed store for being too smart. That and ranching in khaki Dockers and a starched white Brooks Brothers shirt.

Don't forget the crocs.

 

Unless he wants to go for the Oliver Wendell Douglas look in Green Acres.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Big John

[The Holy Roller]

Joel Salatin. Google him.

[muck]

Joel Salatin. Google him.

 

I did and I referenced him earlier.

[muck]

Something to consider: We have relatives who are Chicago residents (wealthy). They bought a "share" in an organic farm that allows them to get a certain amount of organic vegetables, cheese, milk and meats from that farm in a year (X a week). The farmer makes a good deal of money with the large number of families who buy in. I don't know what the name is, but I daresay you could find any one of a number of them online. At least enough to understand the business plan for them...

 

There is a farm like this north of KC. They have given me some things to think about.

[cre8tiff]

There is a farm like this north of KC. They have given me some things to think about.

 

There's some nice, fertile land in the north and center of Missouri, by Brookfield.

 

I was always astonished at how black the dirt was (I was raised on a farm).